Gretchin?

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**ChrisCP**

They out-shoot slugga boyz point for point too

**bravelybravesirrobin**

ChrisCP wrote:They out-shoot slugga boyz point for point too

Actually they're as good at shooting as shoota boyz pt for pt.

Consider (vs T4)

3 shoota boyz, 6 shots, 2 hits, 1 wound.

6 grots, 3 hits, 1 wound

Of course the shootas have more rnage, better ap and are on a platform that can fight too.

**ChrisCP**

~! Mm I was thinking about drawing it out to that extrema but for the reasons you gave and as the minimum would be 10 gretchin 1 runth = 43 points as one must cost ones-self a runtherd I didn't do the calculations due to time

**QuietOrkmi**

Minimum is 40... 30 for 10 gretchin and 10 for the herder...

So for the price of those 2 burnas on your KFF meks... you get a 11 wounds scoring unit that can hang back while the rest of your army can deny your opponent any objectives.

**Nurglitch**

Being a screening unit is awesome, particularly they evaporate so easily, not sticking around to lock units in combat where you can't shoot or charge them. If you could take a unit of Gretchin for every unit of Orks, I think we'd see them more often.

**Shake Zoola**

You cant charge them if they are in combat?

**Gwar!**

Shake Zoola wrote:You cant charge them if they are in combat?

Not if all the gretchin block your path to the enemy models.

**Shake Zoola**

Fair enough!

**Dashofpepper**

As if the point hadn't been made, just need to be clear....

Gretchin F****** OWN!

**Gunkh Inmashnozz**

I loves my grots. I agree with 19 being a good number, making them cost 3.5 points each (incl the RH). Makes them for my points a mobile, objective taking, occasionally SM and Tau killing version of 'Ard Boy armour, at .5 points cost less per model. Many objectives have been held by me little grotses, if they die they die, but if they kill something I dont care if I lose the battle. My gretchin killed something!

**Gwar!**

Another tip when dealing with Grots trying to take 2 or more objectives is this:

If they shoot at you, go to ground.
If you are pinned (or gone to ground) you are unable to move, even if you are out of coherency. The downside is you can only do this is you take a wound from the enemies shooting, but if they aren't shooting at you, thats a good thing!

**Nurgle?**

my friend played an all ripper army, but he gave up because it was too hard trying to get all the models

**The Fox Lord**

Dashofpepper wrote:As if the point hadn't been made, just need to be clear....

Gretchin F****** OWN!

Yes, Yes they do

especilly when they're Cybo

I've said I have 180 of these right. They work great in games with objectives & no time limits, there's just too many to kill efficiantly. In game with time limits (tounoments) they have problems because there's just too many to move quickly. But the look of horror on the enemies face is always worth it

**Dokph**

Gretchin should be getting the mob rule... I mean, by the strict interpetration of the rules, there's no such unit type as 'orks'. Compare to the necrons where they have a special rules for it. Denying the grots the mob rule because they are a subrace seems silly. Now it could work if the mob rule said "other models with the mob rule" instead of orks. Now though, the natural intepetration is "everything in this book that is a member of the orkoid species, ie everything from warbosses to snotlings if we had them'. Squigs not counting since they are wargear. Removing the mob rule I feel is rather sad, since in the old fluff, gretchin were fairly corageus(dumb as tack and trying to imitate their adored orky brethren), and I could very much see a horde of gretchin doing ridicilously stupid things.

Still, this means they got nerfed. So, gretchin were so good, gw had to nerfbat them into submission. (Either that or gw did their usual drunken consideration towards the rules and gretchin just happened to be on the recieving end this time.) So now that the gretchin are wont to up and run after assault or significant fires towards them, are they still useful?

**KingCracker**

The Fox Lord wrote:@ Mistress of minis: Runtherdz shouldn't have the Waaagh! & Mob Rule special rules.

@ Nurglitch: I field 180 of these little buggers, BS 3, 5+ Invlunerable, one Grot mob w/Feel No Pain I love these

Except your forgetting to add that the guns are str2. So they fail horribly at wounding. So they are basically just as good at shooting as normal Orks. Except shoota boyz have assault2 weapons, that shoot farther, and are stronger with an ap5 weapon. Not to mention you can then charge those boyz into an assault AFTER shooting the piss out of a unit.

Id like to see grots attempt that

But Ill have to try the 67pt grot mob. That sounds cheap and has more pros then cons

**vinbreau**

Kroot Loops wrote:This is when I noticed Gretchin don't have mob rule, so I needed double 1's, failed, killed some grots to roll again and failed again.

I have to ask, as I keep seeing this... when I look at page 100 of my Ork codex, under Gretchin, "Mob Rule" is clearly listed under "Special Rules" for the Runtherd. If the Runtherd has Mob Rule, and the grots require 1 for every 10, that means when the Runtherd makes the leadership test for his grot-mob, he will use Mob Rule to do so, making a group of 11+ Grots Fearless. Am I wrong?

**Madmax1**

vinbreau wrote:
Kroot Loops wrote:This is when I noticed Gretchin don't have mob rule, so I needed double 1's, failed, killed some grots to roll again and failed again.

I have to ask, as I keep seeing this... when I look at page 100 of my Ork codex, under Gretchin, "Mob Rule" is clearly listed under "Special Rules" for the Runtherd. If the Runtherd has Mob Rule, and the grots require 1 for every 10, that means when the Runtherd makes the leadership test for his grot-mob, he will use Mob Rule to do so, making a group of 11+ Grots Fearless. Am I wrong?

The Official Ork FAQ removed the WAAAGH!!! and Mob rule special rule from the Runtherd. Check the GW website.

**Gwar!**

The FAQ didn't change it, the ERRATA changed it.

Big Difference.

**TheRhino**

Our local Ork expert brought some Gretchin to the most recent 1500 point game night. Normally he runs a disgusting Kan Wall with max-sized Boyz mobs and Stormboys and Ghazgul.
He just had the Grots start in the back, and slowly walk/run over to an objective the whole game. There was so much Orkflesh coming at me, I didn't really have time to shoot the Grots.
They seem like a sleeper unit. They skulk around in the back, looking useless, until it's Turn 5 and you're too far out to take the objective back from them.

**schadenfreude**

I need to add a large disclaimer to Dash's statement

Dashofpepper wrote:As if the point hadn't been made, just need to be clear....

Gretchin F****** OWN!

*Offer only applies if the ork player knows what he is doing*

Grots own in the hands of a skilled player. In the hands of an unskilled player they are more of a liability than an asset.

Example of how an ork player can turn grots into a liability. A bad ork player advanced 60 boys and 30 grots within charge range of a chaos army. Call them Mob A Mob B and da grots

A squad of plague marines charges Mob A and da grots
A 2nd squad of plague marines charges Mob B and da grots
A squad of CSM &/or summoned deamons charges da grots

It's all one giant CC. The 2 mobs of orks are not going to do much to 2 units of plague marines. S3 Versus T5 power armor +FNP is no fun. It would be safe to say the 2 units of PM and the 60 boyz are stuck in a long drawn out combat that the orks have a good chance of eventually winning through nothing but the 2 nob's power klaw eventually wearing down the PM. Unless of course the CSM or SGD slaughter 30 grots in a single turn. Now each unit of boys ends up taking 30 wounds from fearless and pop like a zit, and about 500 points of orks gets flushed down the crapper.

**Dashofpepper**

Any ork player who advances into charge range of multiple units while exposing multiple units (Gretchin and orks) not only advanced poorly, deployed poorly, but also deserves what happens.

**Kroot Loops**

Dashofpepper wrote:Any ork player who advances into charge range of multiple units while exposing multiple units (Gretchin and orks) not only advanced poorly, deployed poorly, but also deserves what happens.

Agreed.

**schadenfreude**

Lulz yep. Watching a new player work with orks is a lot like watching retards play with nitroglycerin. The outcome is both very horrible and very predictable. Most new players start with an army from ABR which means they play space marines or orks. Space marines are a much more forgiving army for a new player to play.

The bad rep that grots have come from the abuse the receive at the hands of new players. A common use of grots is as a screen to give boys a 4+ cover save. I think that is a terrible use of grots for new players to attempt because they often end up having difficulty advancing correctly and deploying correctly. The learning curve for orks is sharp and cruel, adding grots to a new player's list can be adding fuel to the fire.

Experience ork players are a different story, but once an ork player gets to your level of experience Dash they tend to give up on the grot screen and use them as dirt cheap objective grabbers who are happy to go to ground for a 3+ cover save. It's a really annoying tactic to deal with because shooting anything at a unit as cheap as grots that have a 3+ cover save is a complete $#$@ing waste of bullets.

**kazuki85**

schadenfreude is spot on, gretchins are more of a finesse army which can be worthless if not played properly.

Players who are new to the game are better off with units who are direct and killy, like the Warboss (you hardly go wrong with him), Big Mek KFF (just place it near the things you want to protect), boyz, nobz, lootas and kanz.

In the hands of an experienced 40k player, gretchins can be surprisingly annoying cheap unit that can grab objectives, protect your boyz, or a tarpit unit. With grabba stiks and some decent luck, you may even stop a Daemon Prince in his tracks!

**labmouse42**

In my opinion 19 grots + 1 runtherder is good. As has been mentioned, they have a few good uses.

They can be used as mobile cover for your boys, and its a lot cheaper than a big mek + KFF. When they get charged and wiped, that means my boys can join in the fighting on the assault!

Usually though I use them to hold an objective or two. My grots spend the majority of their games sitting on objectives and going to ground every time they are fired on. Its amazing what a 3+ cover save will do to keep your grots alive!

The grots biggest weakness is vs. assault. 5 assault marines can wipe 19 grots with little difficulty. Ive not found this that big of a problem for most games, as my boys tend to attract a lot more attention.

**Heffling**

Dashofpepper wrote:
Gwar! wrote:Runtherds had the mob rule removed in the Ork Errata.

And....now I have no need to chime into the argument. Whether gretchin count as orks doesn't matter because the runtherders don't actually have mob rule. =p

Don't you use the highest leadership in the mob, then apply any negatives? So for example, if you lost a melee by several, and chose to use the Mob Rule leadership, you'd have 3 minus whatever?

I realize that you can't due to the errata.

**MagicJuggler**

Remember the main rule of 40k.

When your Gretchin kill a Terminator unit, you win 40k, no matter the rest of the score.

**Warlordron'swaagh**

Does having 30 gretchin charge only two terminators remaining in a unit and killing them count? Cause i did that, the game almost ended then and there, 1. because i was laughing so damned hard, and two because the space marine player was swearing up a storm about the B.s., i did lose 5 gretchin though

**KingCracker**

Thats just sheer numbers though. Yes its funny but cmon that many attacking grots, your going to roll 2 1's in there somewhere. But still, I think it counts just because.

I mean I painted the grot with the golden gun, simply because he shot and killed a SM for christ sakes.

**ChrisCP**

MagicJuggler wrote:Remember the main rule of 40k.

When your Gretchin kill a Terminator unit, you win 40k, no matter the rest of the score.

My gretchin have killed everything from The Great Unclean One to Tomb Spiders... Toughness 6 in nothing against 29 blastas ^_^