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How are they as far as anti-tank firepower is concerned?

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Because of outflank, they can easily take out most medium-heavy tanks if you do it right. Though they're mostly for anti-light vehicles as far as anti tank is concerned, they destroy squadrons, to the point of being ridiculous.

So, load them with scatter lasers and have them pop out later on and wreak havoc on some side/rear armour?

Cheers for the advice dude, quick question; are autarches any good? I really like them but people say they aren't that great, I just want some clearing up on this.

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Meh, the only really good *active* exarch is Yriel, because of his eye, and the weapon isn't too bad either.

They're mostly taken for the +1 to reserves, in a list like yours, an autarch might not be the best idea, though if you ever take a serpent council, Yriel should be a standard.

If you want foot-slogging that you know, doesn't suck, you could feasibly go with:
Blood Angels
Space Wolves
Imperial Guard
Orks

All of these armies can do foot-slogging well. Eldar... not so much.

EDIT:
Blood Angels don't foot-slog sorry, they... jump-slog. They have lots of jump-packs. Is that considered foot-slogging? Anyway, you can make a competitive Blood Angels list with few or no vehicles, so if you REALLY want to just have guys running up the field, go Blood Angels. You won't regret it.

Meh, eldar have better foot-slogging than most.

EDIT: I can't help myself SP, you have the coolest avatar!

@BobTheChainsaw
I already have an ork army in the works, and people aren't too fond of marines, especially space-vampires.

@Synphonius
Would jetseers be viable? With a choppy autarch to help with reserves and add a little CC muscle?
Oh, and thanks for the quick responses

Will hopefully have a list up later, not really 'footdar' anymore, but not air cavalry.

:EDIT:
Thanks, I found the avatar on a random google search and I went 'Omg, omg, omg, do want!'

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Ah, I do not have much experience with jetcouncils, though Old Man Ultramarine might, if you can get in contact with him.

Space_Potato wrote:@BobTheChainsaw
I already have an ork army in the works, and people aren't too fond of marines, especially space-vampires.

It doesn't matter what 'people are fond of'. Somebody criticizes you for playing Blood Angels? Ignore him. Seriously, whether you like the fluff or not, they're a fun army to play. Just imagine jump-packs EVERYWHERE. And they're not 'overpowered' - anyone who says that is ignorant. But you really hate marines with a passion, you could go foot guard. You'd have to spend A LOT, but you could have a massive, 150-man horde.

Just used mah armeh bill-der, and jet councils are very expensive, points-wise.

Here's a sample list, there's a few bikes in this one.

Autarch - Power weapon, mandiblaster, jetbike, fusion gun - 130

Dire Avengers - 8 - 231
- Wave Serpent - Twin linked Bright lances

Dire Avengers - 8 - 231
- Wave Serpent - Twin linked Bright lances

Guardian Jetbikes - 4, Shuriken cannon - 158
- Warlock - Conceal, Singing spear

Striking Scorpions - 5 - 128
- Exarch - Biting Blade, Shadowstrike

War Walkers - 2, Scatter lasers - 120

Total - 998

I realise this will be ridiculously vulnerable on turn 1, but I am planning on sticking to cover with the serpents and either turbo-boosting or concealing the jetbikes. Once they all get stuck in, the war walkers and scorpions arrive to break faces.

How's that?

:EDIT:
@Bob, if you noticed earlier on, I posted a marine list, but it was not taken all that well. I used to run Guard, but I am an awful IG general. I would run a marine list, but I don't particularly like the 'recycled' feel of the lists (I like having variety, I think I woud go mad if I had to paint a load of marines with no real defining feature between onoe and the other)

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Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry about that, I'll edit the previous post.

It's 998 points

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I am not in the mood to do some adding, so how many points is that?

I feel like saying 1,000, though I want to be sure.

It's 998 points.

So, does anyone have any comments on my list? Any and all are welcome people, voice your opinion.

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Space_Potato wrote:Just used mah armeh bill-der, and jet councils are very expensive, points-wise.

Here's a sample list, there's a few bikes in this one.

Autarch - Power weapon, mandiblaster, jetbike, fusion gun - 130

Dire Avengers - 8 - 231
- Wave Serpent - Twin linked Bright lances

Dire Avengers - 8 - 231
- Wave Serpent - Twin linked Bright lances

Guardian Jetbikes - 4, Shuriken cannon - 158
- Warlock - Conceal, Singing spear

Striking Scorpions - 5 - 128
- Exarch - Biting Blade, Shadowstrike

War Walkers - 2, Scatter lasers - 120

Total - 998

I realise this will be ridiculously vulnerable on turn 1, but I am planning on sticking to cover with the serpents and either turbo-boosting or concealing the jetbikes. Once they all get stuck in, the war walkers and scorpions arrive to break faces.

How's that?

:EDIT:
@Bob, if you noticed earlier on, I posted a marine list, but it was not taken all that well. I used to run Guard, but I am an awful IG general. I would run a marine list, but I don't particularly like the 'recycled' feel of the lists (I like having variety, I think I woud go mad if I had to paint a load of marines with no real defining feature between onoe and the other)

S_P


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry about that, I'll edit the previous post.

It's 998 points

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Not my cup of tea, I can't really give advice without drastically changing it.

Feel free to change it Syphonius. I want it to be fun, and effective, so make any changes you want.

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Things to Consider
- walkers with twin linked scatter, antihorde power. In a group of 3 they are lethal for hordes, and if they get to hit side/rear armour the volume of shots can do wonders

- Autarch as a tank killer. At BS6 he is the best shot you can get and thus gives you more bang for your buck with any guns. The problem at 1000pts is that heavy weapons are really expensive, so trying to bring enough low accuracy guns to splat tanks with any kind of reliability is a huge opportunity cost*.

My one concern with this plan is that you almost certainly want a farseer in a footslogging list, and Autarch+farseer is a big dollop of points. You'd probably also want a unit to go with the autarch to make him less vulnerable, but then it is tricky to find a unit that doesn't waste its points while your autarch is tank hunting.

- Bring something scary. An avatar/wraithlord bullet sponge (FORTUNE!!) can help take attention away from your fragile, fragile troops



*ie. the points you spend on big guns takes away your troop volume/CC etc...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, the list you posted above is close to my idea of 1000pt fun.

It's fairly glass hammer (but not excessively so by eldar standards) and you might curse the reserve rolls a few times but hey, it'll be a good laugh.

It looks like a serious points squeeze on the scorpions and the walkers. a third walker would make for devastating horde killing and make you less vulnerable to bad luck killing a walker. I'm not sure that five scorpions are enough of a punch to stop another cc unit or to kill shooty unit that was at fullstrength.

I'd put bladestorm on the avengers btw.

My plan is to have the autarch in with the jetbikes, almost like a delivery system.

The plan is for the Avengers in the Serpents to move up one side, the jetbikes with autarch up the other.

Once there, the Avengers disembark and shoot, then prepare to charge if they have sufficiently weakened the unit, or prepare to recieve that charge if they didn't (shimmershield and Defend adding to survivability). The Autarch detaches from the jetbikes and charges/shoots the nastiest thing it can find (whether it be tank or charater or whatever); whilst the jetbikes harrass smaller units.

Hopefully, at this point the walkers and scorpions arrive in the enemy's rear. The scorpions charge headlong into the most threatening unit, and the walkers take shot at infantry/rear/side armour.

Should I need to make a move for objectives in later stages, th avengers can mount up for movement, and the bikes will be zooming around all over the place.

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Relying on outflanking scorpions? That is a horrible idea. First of all, you have no idea when they'll arrive. You also have no idea where they'll arrive. And without Fleet, unless the enemy is flat out slowed, there won't be anything they can attack when they arrive. Really, your whole strategy is based on facing a static infantry gunline that won't have the ability to counter your outflank. Since static infantry gunlines are on the down and out in 5th ed, it's a really bad plan. Relying entirely on unreliable reserves and outflank is just so obviously counter-intuitive -- why do you expect to rely on things that are by definition unreliable? That's not the kind of thinking that creates a worthwhile list.

^^ You make a very valid point, Ixe. Have you got any suggestions on how to change my list so as to make it more effective?

I want the list to be effective, but I want to keep it fairly cheap, £'s wise. Just work on effectiveness, and I'll sort the cost out.
Any changes to the list are welcome, all comments are welcome.

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I would quote myself:

Ixe wrote:At 1000 points? You shouldn't even be playing Eldar. 1000 points is just unbalanced because some armies with ultra cheap or ultra versatile options are good, and others with more expensive, specialized squads are irredeemably bad. Get out of noob town and play real games if you actually want to do OK with Eldar. In noob town, Eldar are a bottom tier army.

You're gimped at this level no matter what. You don't have enough points for adequate mech saturation, and you don't have enough points for wraithzilla, so foot or mech you're kind of boned.

If price is a concern, then I would think about trying the list I posted earlier. 3x1 missile walkers, 2x8 Pathfinders, 6 Harlequins w/kiss and Shadowseer, Eldrad. You could drop the number of pathfinders for more Harlequins also, and I suppose you could fit in more stuff by dropping Eldrad, but that would be stupid because he's just too good for the points. But yeah, that list is relatively cheap to build I think. Only buy it if you are not very bothered about winning though, I have no idea how well it will perform because I've never used it and I don't play 1000 point games.

If you were going to do a mech list, I'd try:

Farseer w/Doom, Runes of Warding

2x5 Fire Dragons in Waveserpents w/shuriken cannons, spirit stones

2x10 Storm Guardians w/2 flamers + Warlock w/spear, destructor, in Waveserpent w/missile launchers, spirit stones

That list has excellent anti-tank with the dragons and excellent anti-troop with the triple-flame storm guardians + doom. It's only got 4 tanks, but I've successfully run 6 tanks at 2000 points, so it might be OK. Heck, it might be great, since many armies are going to be extremely anti-tank deficient at 1000 points.

Thanks Ixe, I think I will use that list, it seems to have a bit of everything, whilst still being fairly cheap.

I may be gimped at 1000 points, but I like a challenge.

Thanks again Ixe

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Actually, be careful in buying storm guardians. You get 8 per box, not 10, and the minimum squad size is 10. So you need 3 boxes to make 20 storm guardians. Also, they come with 1x fusion gun 1x flamer each, so if you're bothered by WYSWYG you need 4 boxes so you have 4x flamer and 4x fusion instead of 2 of each. They look almost identical of course, the only difference is the ammo clip, but like I said if you bother with such things then you need 4 boxes. I mean, you need 3 boxes just to make 2x10 of them, so what's another box on top of that?

But yeah, due to the idiosyncrasies of the Storm Guardian box you might want to think differently when it comes to making a list that doesn't cost too much. Dire Avengers are a more cost effective option and similarly priced with upgrades. Not as versatile, but they have their strong points, including being able to survive bolter fire and being able to attack from outside most enemies' charge range.

Ah, that could be an issue. I could buy all those boxes, but I would be left with a craplot of guardians, and we can't have that.

I drawn up another list, that uses almost three boxes of storm guardians.

Farseer - Doom, Eldritch Storm, Singing Spear - 100

12 Storm Guardians - 2 Flamers, Wave Serpent with Missile Launchers - 228

11 Storm Guardians - 1 Fusion gun, Wave Serpent with Missile Launchers - 214

10 Dire Avengers - Exarch with Dual ShuriPults and Bladestorm, Wave Serpent with Missile Launchers - 272

5 Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent with Shuricannons - 180

How's that? I combatted the loss of the second unit of fire dragons by adding a bit of (possibly unreliable) AT firepower in the second unit of storm guardians. Then Farseer also has Eldritch Storm and a Singing Spear, to help deal with hordes and Tanks (Singing Spear is used when Doom has been used or psychic powers may be awkward to use).

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:EDIT:
D-D-D-D-D-DOUBLE POST!

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I ran into the 8 in a box set issue with my Storm Guardians as well, the special weapons aren't really an issue (they look almost exactly the same and I only ever use them with flamers) but was 4 short of 2 minimum sized squads. Rather than buying another box set just to get those 4 guys you can easily convert some, I used left over bits from my Avengers (you get a bunch of swords and pistols for the Exarch on every sprue and you get two sprues per box (so two swords, two halberds and two pistols per box set)) combined with standard Guardian bodies and weapons (if needed, making a Shuriken pistol from a catapult is pretty easy, just a bit of clipping).

Anyway that list looks ok, as mentioned Eldar are very tough to use at 1000pts. 1000pts usually means an HQ and 2-3 Troops and a couple of support units no matter which army you are using. Eldar don't really work like this as their troops are below par, all their killing power is in their non scoring units.

To start with drop Eldritch Storm off the Farseer, keep him hiding in a transport. Don't waste points on the Spear, having the additional attack in combat is far more helpful imo. Usually I don't leave home without Runes of Warding, but at 1000pts it depends a bit on your meta as to whether you take them tbh. Play a few games and see how much psychic stuff you run into and see if you need it.

I would drop both the Storm Guardians to 10 men, make them both have 2 x Flamers and add a Warlock with Destructor to both units. This gives you two very nasty anti infantry units, admittedly they are very easy to kill as well but not much can be done about that apart from keeping them inside as long as possible and minimise what can shoot back when they do get out (i.e kill them all). The Warlock's witchblade is a decent backup anti tank weapon as well.

I would probably drop the Avengers down to a minimum 5 man squad, you already have plenty of anti infantry with the flamer squads, mostly you need the scoring unit and the heavy firepower from the EML on the Serpent. I would consider putting them in a Falcon actually as you have heavy slots to burn. It works better than the Serpent if you don't need to be moving up the field as much (more shooting power and more survivable with the Holo-field, particularly at ranges where you don't have to worry about melta as much). If you have points spare upgrade one of the Serpents to have a Bright Lance so you aren't totally screwed if you lose the Fire Dragons before they do their job.

Most of the Serpents can get away with it, but the Fire Dragon Serpent needs Spirit Stones, they are your only reliable way of dealing with AV14 and getting stuck in the bad position could easily cost you the game.

Overall I think you are ok for anti tank power, I really doubt you are going to see more than 1 Land Raider at 1000pts and against anything else the missiles combined with your ability to get side shots with your mobility should be able to do the job. Obviously if you lose the Fire Dragons early (or more likely lose the Serpent and they can't get where they need to) then its obviously going to hurt, but you are limited with what you can do at 1000pts. You can still go for the S8 glance it to death approach I guess (or ram things) and your Farseer and Warlocks can try and hack it to death with Witchblades as a last resort.

Cool, thanks Powerguy.

Farseer - Doom, Runes of Warding - 95pts
10 Storm Guardians with Warlock - 2 flamers, Destructor, Wave Serpent with EMLs - 247pts
10 Storm Guardians with Warlock - 2 flamers, Destructor, Wave Serpent with EMLs - 247pts
5 Dire Avengers - Falcon with Bright lance - 205
5 Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent with Shuriken Cannon, Twin-linked Shuriken Cannons, Spirit stones - 200pts

994 points.

What do people think?

As far as tactics go, everything zips around the field like a blue-arsed fly wreaking havoc. The guardian squads will tackle infantry, the dragons tackle armour. The Dire Avengers will stay in the falcon at the back, which will be taking shots at tanks, with the avengers only disembarking on the last turn to take the home objective or when the falcon is threatened at short range.

S_P

It's a bit more interesting and a bit less effective than a list with 2x5 Dragons. The thing is, Dragons are your go-to guys for every heavy tank, for monstrous creatures, and also for anything with a 2+ save that pops it sorry face out of cover. Dragons do quadruple duty in any mech Eldar list.

Falcons, moreover, kind of suck. Their BS3 hurts a lot no matter what guns they have. I haven't even found them to be worthwhile with scatter lasers, and that's with 6 total shots. With just 3 shots, they're veritible whiff factories, and for their price that is really terrible.

The only reason to have a Falcon is to put a holofield on it with Dire Avengers inside. That's a great unit because it claims objectives and is very durable. Without the holofield though, it's much easier to kill than a waveserpent. And even with the holofield, I don't much like Falcons unless there's an Eldrad around to Guide them. If you want fire support, take a fire prism, which is going to be much more effective for the points, and more survivable based on its 60" range. The transport capacity of a Falcon just isn't that worth exploiting unless you bring the protection of a holofield.

At 1000pts, try Eldar. They are squishy but they will do you proud I think. They just can't play like SM. (Cover? Why take cover? I am wearing a nuclear-proof ceramite suit!!)

Your earlier list is not too bad.

Farseer (Rune of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Guide, Doom) - 130pts
10 Dire Avengers (Exarch, Shimmershield, Power Weapon, Defend) - 162pts
10 Dire Avengers (Exarch, 2 shuriken catapults, Bladestorm) - 152pts
10 Dire Avengers (Exarch, 2 shuriken catapults, Bladestorm) - 152pts
6 Howling Banshees (Exarch, Executioner, Warshout) - 123pts
- Wave Serpent (Twin-linked Bright Lance) - 135pts
Wraithlord (Bright lance, Wraithsword) - 140pts

My recommendation would be to go on foot though and lose the banshees and wave serpent.

3 Dark Reapers( Exarch, EML, Quickshot)
3 Dark Reapers( Exarch, EML, Quickshot)

If you keep the defend DAs, get Fortune and lose Guide - everything you have is BS 4 or 5 so not much benefit. Get Fortune and attach to that DA squad.

If your opponent is on foot, two S8 and 4 S5 AP3 shots will decimate marines.
If you need AT that is 2 S8 AP3 shots per squad and BS 5 so that should be 4 hits a turn. AV 11-12 should not be too happy with that.
At 1000 pts you shouldn't be seeing more that 1 AV14 vehicle and that is what the Bright Lance is there for.

If you want to keep a doom/guide seer. think about a squad of rangers or pathfinders. Pathfinders are deathdealers with doom and guide and the bigger the squad the better.

Ugh. Unless you play against scrubs that list will disappoint. This is one reason not to set too much store in Crappa Crappa -- people insisting that footdar is good so long as you use Dark Reapers. It's so sad that it would hurt to lol about it.

Farseer - Doom, Runes of Warding - 95pts
10 Storm Guardians with Warlock - 2 flamers, Destructor, Wave Serpent with EMLs - 247pts
10 Storm Guardians with Warlock - 2 flamers, Destructor, Wave Serpent with EMLs - 247pts
5 Dire Avengers - 60
5 Fire Dragons with exarch - Tank hunters Wave Serpent Twin-linked Shuriken Cannons, Spirit stones - 233pts
Fire Prism - Shuriken Cannon - 115

997 points.

If I need to, I can get rid of Tank hunters, and replace it with a shuricannon on the serpent and a firepike on the exarch.

How's that?

S_P

Definitely not. 5 Avengers on foot without a transport will do you very little good. If you're going with 5 Avengers they need to be in a Falcon, and if you're going with a Falcon it needs to have holofields. You could afford this as your second troops choice if you dropped a storm guardian squad, it would give you a more durable and less killy army. It would also give you a fairly wonky number of points left over, like 105 or something, which is too little to add a whole new unit, and too much to squander away on vehicle and squad upgrades... All you could do with those points would be add some cheaped out vypers or warwalkers, or a 3 man jetbike squad with 1 shuricannon.

With your list above, I would just cut out the Dire Avengers, drop all the Fire Dragon upgrades, and add a pair of Shuriken Cannon warwalkers. Filling up on random pointless upgrades is not the best way to go, if you've got more points you want more units if at all possible. And warwalkers are pretty decent even with 24" range, because of their Scouts status.

I really think it hurts not to have Fire Dragon redundancy though, even at 1000 points. If there's a landraider on the field, the enemy just has to take out your dragons with one lucky shot and that's it. Double the number of dragon units doubles the number of lucky shots he needs... Though you could mitigate this somewhat by giving fusion guns to one or both of your storm guardian units. It's the same price so it's something you can experiment with.

Farseer - Doom, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing - 105pts
10 Storm Guardians with Warlock - Flamer, Fusion Gun, Destructor, Wave Serpent with EMLs - 247pts
7 Dire Avengers with exarch - Dual Shuripults, Bladestorm, Wave Serpent with EMLs - 248pts
5 Fire Dragons - Wave Serpent with Twin-linked Shuriken Cannons, Shuriken cannon, Spirit stones - 200pts
Fire Prism - Shuriken Cannon - 115
2 War Walkers - Shuricannons - 80

995 points.

How's that?
2 melee AT weapons, 3 AT shots at bs3, 6 at bs4 (one of which is on the fire prism), for 11 in total. The rest is a craplot of AI firepower.

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