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Melissia wrote:

Azezel wrote:And he's right. As much as I dislike the way the Sisters are portrayed in most BL books, I dread to think what'd happen if BL tried to portray them positively.

As opposed to when BL tries to portray Marines positively? Or Guard? Or... anything?

I'd take that over the faction constantly being trashed and abused any day.

Have you read any of the IG novels at all? I mean Right now on the dakka forum.. we are crying over the butchered, and devastated Tanith! BL authors are very very good at establishing the Grimdark and making everyone half-dead, at the start of their novels. SoB are not the only ham stringed army BL wise.

thegrav wrote:

Have you read any of the IG novels at all? I mean Right now on the dakka forum.. we are crying over the butchered, and devastated Tanith! BL authors are very very good at establishing the Grimdark and making everyone half-dead, at the start of their novels. SoB are not the only ham stringed army BL wise.

Tell me can you name me a few battles that the guard have won in novels? You could probably tell me a few.
Now tell me a few battles the sisters have won? You will probably not be able to give me more then one if you can even give me one.

Actually I can tell you I have read several BL novels and I know that the 2-3 that they talk about the SoB in they are winning or doing good. Most of the Tanith novels, they win sure.. but their are like 200 left, and their home world is glassed.. No more.. game over. I have not read an SoB novel so I can't say how "bad" they are, but when they are mentioned in other books it is normally not in a negative context of "They are big dumb b****s!" It is more like "They did this over there and won."

I hear you guys I wanting more fluff stuff, I would love to see more good fluff on anything but the SM, but lets face it the SM and the CSM are the GW flagship armies.

Where are the Sisters in the Gaunt Ghost novels?
I'm currently up to Honour Guard and are yet to see Sisters mentioned once.

As far as I know they weren't mentioned there, I have read other guard novels. I believe there is a mention in Double Eagle.. Which is a very cool book ABOUT female PILOTS in the IG.

@Necrosis: In Faith and Fire the sisters do a decent job of obliterating a rebellious cities defenses. Later they tear down a secret mutant/psyker base thing.

In the fluff, I can only recall Convent 101, with the necrons, and Armageddon, where the Order of our Matryed Lady was devastated, as significant defeats for the Sisters. Other than that I really don't have much to go on.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

In the fluff, I can only recall Convent 101, with the necrons, and Armageddon, where the Order of our Matryed Lady was devastated, as significant defeats for the Sisters. Other than that I really don't have much to go on.

That's pretty much all there is in the fluff.

Personally, if there were a serries of Sisters novels that ripped off some other serries, instead of ripping of Cain (which in turn rips of personal favourite Flashman) - I'd want it to rip of Sharpe.

Tell me that couldn't work. Sharpe is a hard bastard with a powerful strength of will and an absolute willingness to do what has to be done, but still human enough to help those who need his help.

thegrav wrote:Have you read any of the IG novels at all? I mean Right now on the dakka forum.. we are crying over the butchered, and devastated Tanith! BL authors are very very good at establishing the Grimdark and making everyone half-dead, at the start of their novels. SoB are not the only ham stringed army BL wise.

Yes, actually. I am reading a series of six Guard novels right now. The Cain series has the Guard winning battles regularly, and they aren't the only books where this happens.

Azezel wrote:

Personally, if there were a serries of Sisters novels that ripped off some other serries, instead of ripping of Cain (which in turn rips of personal favourite Flashman) - I'd want it to rip of Sharpe.

Tell me that couldn't work. Sharpe is a hard bastard with a powerful strength of will and an absolute willingness to do what has to be done, but still human enough to help those who need his help.

It is my ever great and lasting shame that I was unable to finish these books. I think I stopped halfway through the Winter Guard or some sort. The one where he's fleeing from Spain...or Portugal. It's all so hazy now. But anyway, we moved and I never found those books or started them again. However, while I loved them, I don't see how it would work for Sisters. I mean, it's probably just becuase I'm too much of a sexist to imagine Sharpe being female, but still...

Azezel wrote:That's pretty much all there is in the fluff.

There's also this time Canoness Praxedes (again, Order of Our Martyred Lady) martyred herself and a few hundred Sisters fighting off the Tyranids. And Saint Celestine martyred herself fighting a tyrant above a nuclear stockpile, which the tyrant detonated beneath their feat so that he wouldn't be captured and tortured by the Inquisition. And there was this story about Daemons I believe, though I don't recall the particulars.

I can't think of any victorious battles in GW's fluff aside from some half-sentence blurbs in C:WH... BL has a few, but even they are paltry. Once again, I'm struck by the fact that Relic has given the faction more respect than GW... (even going so far as to have the Blood Ravens apparently having particularly strong connections with the Sisters, being gifted with several relics from at least three different minor Orders).

Emperors Faithful wrote:However, while I loved them, I don't see how it would work for Sisters. I mean, it's probably just becuase I'm too much of a sexist to imagine Sharpe being female, but still...

Well... Perhaps the hypothetical Sister Accies (geddit?) should sleep with slightly fewer wenches than Sharpe and whatnot... Not a 1:1 relationship with the Sharpe character, more of an equivalancy.

Sharpe is distinguished by a powerful sense of honour which wouldn't completely work in the grimdark of the far etc. But would find it's equivalent in faith.


Ciaphas Cain isn't Flashman, but there is a direct path from one to the other, and I think the same path could turn Sharpe into a very readable Sister of Battle.

Or Black Library could call up Ben counter, appologise profusely and beg him to write a full length novel version of Daemonblood - and maybe half a dozen other novels about what Sister Aescarion was up to in between hunting down fallen Ultramarines.

what did BL do to Ben Counter?

Manchu wrote:Maybe what BL needs is a female author.

Given the quality of current BL authors what that would result in is slash.

Yes, I am saying that BL is at the level of professionally edited fanfiction.

Manchu wrote:What did BL do to Ben Counter?

They burried his story in Inferno! magazine.

I like your .sig, by the way.

Necrosis wrote:Now tell me a few battles the sisters have won? You will probably not be able to give me more then one if you can even give me one.

Emperors Faithful wrote:@Necrosis: In Faith and Fire the sisters do a decent job of obliterating a rebellious cities defenses. Later they tear down a secret mutant/psyker base thing.

I have read two novels with Sororitas participation.
In "Faith & Fire" they sort of win (see above).
In "Grey Knights" (by Ben Counter) they win as well. So 2 examples and 100% win ratio. Eldar on the other hand ...

Considering the entire Sororitas detachment just gets utterly wiped out, I wouldn't call that a win. But I've never liked Pyhrric victories.

You mean they buried Daemonblood in Inferno! magazine? But they also published it in Let The Galaxy Burn. It's actually one of my favorite pieces published by BL. And it has a single Sister Seraphim defeating a Chaos Lord.

Manchu wrote:You mean they buried Daemonblood in Inferno! magazine? But they also published it in Let The Galaxy Burn. It's actually one of my favorite pieces published by BL. And it has a single Sister Seraphim defeating a Chaos Lord.

HERSEY AGAINST THE RUINOUS POWERS!!!! Sorry had to let my Chaos flag fly..

You guys could always start to write something you think is acceptable, I am sure Dakka will give tons of feedback

It's okay, Abbadon was once bested by a single Battle Sister. Gotta love failed armor saves.

Melissia wrote:It's okay, Abbadon was once bested by a single Battle Sister. Gotta love failed armor saves.

Heh no doubt. In the 3rd Ed rules I had a single DE running around with a Darklance causing havoc after his squad was laid out, gotta love those lucky leadership tests!

Manchu wrote:You mean they buried Daemonblood in Inferno! magazine? But they also published it in Let The Galaxy Burn. It's actually one of my favorite pieces published by BL. And it has a single Sister Seraphim defeating a Chaos Lord.

Don't have to tell me, mate. Further up this thread I said that Daemonblood was worth the price of the book on its own. Which is saying something since most of Let the Galaxy Burn is, charitably, not very good. The only other worthwhile story in there is Words of Blood by... Well in fact, it's by Ben Counter - I never actually noticed that Counter wrote both of the good stories in that book. Anyway - In Words of Blood he actually manages to make the Black Templars seem interesting, which I wouldn't have considered possible before.


Damn - BL really do need to say sorry to Counter for publishing his work right next to Salvation and Acceptable Losses...


@thegrav - I would write my own, but I have a personal rule against writing things set in other peoples' universes, or using other peoples' characters.

@Azezel: Yeah I get you on that. It seems that the SoB gain a huge amount of controversy about them on the forums though so I tossed the idea out there.

Necrosis wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Lets be honest, if GW wanted to make a Sororitas novel (that sold), it would end up as a bad fanficition AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW IT!

If your not going to say anything useful then don't say anything that all. Hate how everyone keeps bashing them cause their females.

I'm not one to usually defends Gwar!, as he tends to deserve the crap that he gets from others most of the time. But he is far from the only one in this thread delivering one line sarcastic quips, and if it's okay for others to do it then it's okay for him to do it too.

thegrav wrote:@Azezel: Yeah I get you on that. It seems that the SoB gain a huge amount of controversy about them on the forums though so I tossed the idea out there.

there's a huge amount of controversy largely because the fluff is so tenuous and so disorganized.

There is little fluff and it's spread far and wide. Two vastly different Codices, a couple of short stories, one novel and cameos in a half dozen others and a comic book.

Not one of these sources agrees on exactly what the sisters' deal is. and because the fluff is so spread around, most people will not have read all of it, and therefore can have very different ideas about the army.

If you've only read the 2e Codex (and I strongly advise you to read it, if you have not), then you're pretty sure that the sisters are the army of the Ecclesiarchy - conducting wars of faith, rooting out heresy, protecting pilgrims and shrines etc. Oh, and sometimes they aid the Inquisition.

If you've only read the 3e Codex witchhunters, you'll get almost the opposite idea - the sisters are Inquisition soldeirs who sometimes fight for the church.

If you've only read the Cain novels then the sisters are comical zealots genuinely too stupid to wear helmets.


And if, somehow, you've been living under a rock since the late eighties then the sisters of Battle are pretty much the Galaxy's ultimate badasses. The only force with the power and courage to take down a Space Marine chapter. Seriously, back in the day, that was their job - dealing with Marine chapters that went rogue.

Now that's the novel I want to read.

Heh, I have read both Codices, in fact SoB almost became my second army.

As far as the religious zealot bits, I think the bigger point may be the Fanaticism and Zealotry are bad. Not that women are stupid. Not saying you are arguing against that (that the authors are making women stupid) with your response, but I have got the feeling form a few other Dakka members in other SoB topics. I could be wrong of course.

I tend to focus on the professional, capable, and tactically competent side of the Sisters. IE, the Sisters of Battle, not the Sisters of Martyring Yourself Repeatedly.

But.. all of the Special Characters are Martyrs!?!?!?!?!?!

Plus Our gods are cooler! (5 yr old Chaos Flag flies again!)

Technically, all of your special characters are ***holes. Except for Kharn, of course, I wouldn't dare say anything unkind about that bastion of Khorne's will.

To be fair to C:WH, if you read it carefully you can figure out that the Sisters aren't just Inquisitorial thugs. But the confusion was intentional IMO.

Btw, whatabout Matthew Farrer's story "Snares and Delusions" in Let The Galaxy Burn? I'm looking forward to Enforcer coming out soon.

Nuh-UH! All my special characters can beat up your special characters! <--being 5 still.

So to change tack a bit, is GW planning to revamp the SoB anytime soon?