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Great report, but I'm curious how you charged the nobs into the combat with the dreadnought. shouldn't the boys surround the dreadnought fully, preventing any help from arriving, or am I remembering old rules?

They probably didn't have enough inches to fully wrap around the dreadnought.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:Which reminds me...I am trying to think how many times you have played Mech Guard before. The weakness to your army is one that can take out the battle wagons, and then you are in trouble. IG, Tau, some Chaos might give you trouble.

What exactly do IG do against so many Battlewagons? We don't really have the weight of fire behind our long range anti AV14 guns to get past the 4+ cover, and if you're in melta range the Battlewagons have done their job.

You run Sentinels, correct? Scout move + side armor with Autocannons isn't bad (and since the Battlewagons have a long, weak side like a Chimera, it's a good point to target). Any time you can scoot out early and get side armor shots, it'll really help you deal with the Battlewagons. You could potentially try to suicide a vet melta squad or two from Chimeras as well. They could be a bit of a speed bump on the way to your lines.

You may even be able to get side armor shots with your Autocannon HWSquads if you keep them on an extreme flank. Maybe.

Do the ram attacks from the BW hit the front or rear armour of the Dread?

It doesnt matter much, but it COULD matter if he rolls poorly for Rolla attacks against say an Ironclad.

Deth Rolla attacks are IN ADDITION to the normal effects of a ram attack. The normal effects are that the ram attack hits the rear armour. I dont see anything that says that the rolla attacks will hit the rear.

....also, Dont skimmers make a SINGLE dodge roll against The BW to avoid ALL of the Rolla attacks? It seems like cheap skimmers, speeders, pirahnas, or vypers, might also be a very effective way at slowing this list down.

Deadshane1 wrote:Do the ram attacks from the BW hit the front or rear armour of the Dread?

It doesnt matter much, but it COULD matter if he rolls poorly for Rolla attacks against say an Ironclad.

Deth Rolla attacks are IN ADDITION to the normal effects of a ram attack. The normal effects are that the ram attack hits the rear armour. I dont see anything that says that the rolla attacks will hit the rear.

....also, Dont skimmers make a SINGLE dodge roll against The BW to avoid ALL of the Rolla attacks? It seems like cheap skimmers, speeders, pirahnas, or vypers, might also be a very effective way at slowing this list down.

As for the fourth point, yes, AFAIK. You'll never make a dodge save when you need to though...

Sarigar wrote:At the end of the day, there was a 3 way tie for 3rd place. Apparently, there were some issues about how to determine the 3rd place winner. Gabe ended up with third and has the paperwork (or whatever you get for it), but since he can't go to Chicago, he deferred to another third place finisher who can travel to Chicago.

Gabe was also bummed to go against Gareth's Demon army as the army itself counters what he had planned for the 3rd game.

Not to drag this thread down, but the problem was that the TO mistakenly recorded Capt. Karuthors first game as a Minor Loss when in reality is was a Minor Win, a fact CK brought to the judges attention and proved accurate from the actual result sheets put in.

They gave CK third place based on strength of victory, even though they tied on points, CK was the only one to actually win all three games.

Gabe is a cool guy and let is slide, CK only wanted the ticket to Chicago and let Gabe keep the prize.

Cool reports Dash! Please keep up the reports!

Mahu wrote:

Sarigar wrote:At the end of the day, there was a 3 way tie for 3rd place. Apparently, there were some issues about how to determine the 3rd place winner. Gabe ended up with third and has the paperwork (or whatever you get for it), but since he can't go to Chicago, he deferred to another third place finisher who can travel to Chicago.

Gabe was also bummed to go against Gareth's Demon army as the army itself counters what he had planned for the 3rd game.

Not to drag this thread down, but the problem was that the TO mistakenly recorded Capt. Karuthors first game as a Minor Loss when in reality is was a Minor Win, a fact CK brought to the judges attention and proved accurate from the actual result sheets put in.

They gave CK third place based on strength of victory, even though they tied on points, CK was the only one to actually win all three games.

Gabe is a cool guy and let is slide, CK only wanted the ticket to Chicago and let Gabe keep the prize.

Cool reports Dash! Please keep up the reports!

Ah...you could be giving away the final report as to what place Dash got in the tourney!!!

Don't spoil it!!!

Deadshane1 wrote:Do the ram attacks from the BW hit the front or rear armour of the Dread?

It doesnt matter much, but it COULD matter if he rolls poorly for Rolla attacks against say an Ironclad.

Deth Rolla attacks are IN ADDITION to the normal effects of a ram attack. The normal effects are that the ram attack hits the rear armour. I dont see anything that says that the rolla attacks will hit the rear.

....also, Dont skimmers make a SINGLE dodge roll against The BW to avoid ALL of the Rolla attacks? It seems like cheap skimmers, speeders, pirahnas, or vypers, might also be a very effective way at slowing this list down.

Hrm....

1. Skimmers: Logically it makes sense that the skimmer would make a single roll. I think this tourney actually ruled that they were individual rolls though. It didn't end up affecting me. The rules are unclear on how to handle a deffrolla attacking a skimmer though. I prefer to avoid rules issues always so I always play that my opponent makes a single roll; its the most advantageous to them.

2. Deff Rollas vs dreadnought: In this particular case it didn't matter because I resolved my deffrolla attacks against his dreadnought front armor...which is the best he could hope for. We didn't look that part up until afterwards - I don't remember why we were looking. I had 7-9 STR10 attacks against AV13, I still took it down. For rules purposes....I dunno. If you ram the rear armor, it would make sense that you deffrolla the rear armor as well.

It may make sense...but I dont think thats the rule. It also makes sense to move a dodging skimmer out of the way and have your tank keep going...but your tank stops instead.

Not that it matters much with 7-9 dethrolla attacks against armour 12.

I think its a safer bet to roll against front armour for Dethrolla attacks. After looking at the rule I think thats what you're supposed to do.

If you are playing a shooting army you need to be able to kill Battle Wagons, Leman Russes, and Land Raiders at range.

With Land Raiders everyone packs some melta and thinks they will be fine because they think Land Raiders will get close to drop off their payload. That might be true, but if you are unable to kill them, they might just stay back and try to out shoot you.

With Battle Wagons you really need to kill them before they get too close. You don't have to kill all of them, but you need to stop one or 2 to throw of their attack so that the whole ork army does not hit you at once. If you have a ton of orks all over your lines at once you can't deal with all of them, but if they trickle in, you can take them out one unit at a time which is much easier. Battle Wagons are both harder, and easier to take out than Land Raiders. They are harder because they always have a Big Mech with a KFF, so they are going to always get a 4+ obscure save, but if you have the mobility to get to a Battle Wagons side armor, you have a better chance of getting through their armor.

@Blackmoor - exactly what you just posted is what I was able to accomplish in my semi's game 3 with scout on my baal preds I got flank shots and despite the KFF I managed to immobilize one and wreck a second. it gave me the initiative for the whole game.

Lorek wrote:You run Sentinels, correct? Scout move + side armor with Autocannons isn't bad (and since the Battlewagons have a long, weak side like a Chimera, it's a good point to target). Any time you can scoot out early and get side armor shots, it'll really help you deal with the Battlewagons.

Only when I remember to take them out of the case. S7 v AV12 isn't all that reliable, anyway - I'd much rather shoot it at Buggies or Trukks.

Deadshane1 wrote:It may make sense...but I dont think thats the rule. It also makes sense to move a dodging skimmer out of the way and have your tank keep going...but your tank stops instead.

Not that it matters much with 7-9 dethrolla attacks against armour 12.

I think its a safer bet to roll against front armour for Dethrolla attacks. After looking at the rule I think thats what you're supposed to do.

Why do you think this? There's no guidance whatsoever in the Deffrolla rules for what armor facing to hit - why should it default to Front Armor in all cases?

At the end of the day, there was a 3 way tie for 3rd place. Apparently, there were some issues about how to determine the 3rd place winner. Gabe ended up with third and has the paperwork (or whatever you get for it), but since he can't go to Chicago, he deferred to another third place finisher who can travel to Chicago.

I actually had a better score than Gabe because they scored me losing my first game, when I actually won it. I went undefeated for the day. According to the TO The tie-breaker then was strength of victory since they didn't really keep track of how to break ties (as weird as that was). I won the tie-breaker between the other person that was tied with us, because he had gone undefeated, but got three Minor Wins, where as I got a Minor win, and 2 majors...although they originally scored my first round as a minor loss. When I brought it to their attention (we went back through the score sheets), they made sure to correct their error (kudos to them for acknowledging their data entry error and taking action to correct it). They contacted Gabe and informed him of what had occurred. I told the TO to tell Gabe that he can keep the GW voucher (or whatever the prize was) for his troubles. Gabe is a stand up guy and always look forward to seeing his armies etc at the events down here. His GI Joe army kicks ass. He's a great gamer.

Dashofpepper wrote:
Feel free to crack your rulebook and read about DoG. That's uh...not how it works.

It is surprising though since most things seems to hit rear armor, but he is correct, it is resolved against the front armor.

calypso2ts wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:
Feel free to crack your rulebook and read about DoG. That's uh...not how it works.

It is surprising though since most things seems to hit rear armor, but he is correct, it is resolved against the front armor.

The reason is that when assaulting a tank you are the aggressor and have time to find weak points in the armor. When a tank is bearing down on you and trying to run you over, you don't really have time to look for weak points.

IDK about you but if I decided to step in front of a tank I think I would have figured out which weak spot to shoot before I got in the way!

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

Lorek wrote:You run Sentinels, correct? Scout move + side armor with Autocannons isn't bad (and since the Battlewagons have a long, weak side like a Chimera, it's a good point to target). Any time you can scoot out early and get side armor shots, it'll really help you deal with the Battlewagons.

Only when I remember to take them out of the case. S7 v AV12 isn't all that reliable, anyway - I'd much rather shoot it at Buggies or Trukks.

Woops, I messed up. Sorry. For some reason, I was thinking that they were side armor 11. That changes things.

calypso2ts wrote:IDK about you but if I decided to step in front of a tank I think I would have figured out which weak spot to shoot before I got in the way!

That's just it. It's not so much "stepping out in front of a tank" as "using the time you could be using to get out of the tank's way to fumble for your krak grenade and hastily affix it".

wtf gakky terrain is this? this is ard boys semis and they give you card board cutouts from mcdonalds?

that is one of the lamest terrain tables ive ever seen.....



On another note, I could tell you were going to table this list from the start, foot slogging marines? Lol....you musta felt bad from the beggining knowing that once assault hits this guys toast.

CaptKaruthors wrote:

At the end of the day, there was a 3 way tie for 3rd place. Apparently, there were some issues about how to determine the 3rd place winner. Gabe ended up with third and has the paperwork (or whatever you get for it), but since he can't go to Chicago, he deferred to another third place finisher who can travel to Chicago.

I actually had a better score than Gabe because they scored me losing my first game, when I actually won it. I went undefeated for the day. According to the TO The tie-breaker then was strength of victory since they didn't really keep track of how to break ties (as weird as that was). I won the tie-breaker between the other person that was tied with us, because he had gone undefeated, but got three Minor Wins, where as I got a Minor win, and 2 majors...although they originally scored my first round as a minor loss. When I brought it to their attention (we went back through the score sheets), they made sure to correct their error (kudos to them for acknowledging their data entry error and taking action to correct it). They contacted Gabe and informed him of what had occurred. I told the TO to tell Gabe that he can keep the GW voucher (or whatever the prize was) for his troubles. Gabe is a stand up guy and always look forward to seeing his armies etc at the events down here. His GI Joe army kicks ass. He's a great gamer.

Fair enough. He emailed me before he'd been contacted by the TO. Bummer about the mix up. I'm sure Gabe would have preferred your scoring to have been correct so he didn't have to face off against Fatecrusher in the final game. It was the one type of army that really countered his strategy. Innocent mistake and he got three fun games of 40K in a day, so it's a win in his book.

Fair enough. He emailed me before he'd been contacted by the TO. Bummer about the mix up. I'm sure Gabe would have preferred your scoring to have been correct so he didn't have to face off against Fatecrusher in the final game. It was the one type of army that really countered his strategy. Innocent mistake and he got three fun games of 40K in a day, so it's a win in his book.

Yeah, I'm sure that scoring error may have actually changed how match ups should have been. Meh, it's over now and I'm glad that Gabe still had a great time despite the mistake.

I wonder if it could have kept me from facing Mech IG in round three?

We'll never know...LOL.

Hi Guys! New to the forum, and this is my first post as well! (Do I get a cookie?)
As an intro, I am the TO at the event being discussed here. My thanks to DoP for his batreps!
Felt I should clarify a couple of things:
@ Mafty:
Was actually the LotR's terrain from GW, not paper cutouts. Did the best we could considering we were setting up 20 tables. Cudos to the three local players who loaned us enough terrain to cover 4 of them!

As to the typo I made during the scoring that has been mentioned, I would like to point out that the error I made was in the "level of victory" part of my spreadsheet, not in the overall scores section, which is what is used to arrange pairings. The mistake would not have changed the final round pairings.

Finally, the official GW tie-breaking system goes as follows (per GW rep) Overall score, Battle Points, Victory Points.
Unfortuneatly, the scenarios didn't mention VP's, while the prelim scenarios did. I should have had people keep score anyway.

Enjoyable to read, yet again Dash.