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Snikkyd wrote:

the_ferrett wrote:Snikkyd - The potential for str 10 AP 2 shots. With auto shaken if you manage to hit the vehicle in question.

Yeah, but is str 9 and 10 some of the time better than str 8 all the time? And frags. I'd like to see the math on it.

There are 36 possible rolls of a 2D6.

10 are stronger than than str 8 - although 3 of these mean a dead grot.

5 are equal to str 8.

21 are weaker than str 8.

This means that nearly a 2/3rds of the time your Zzzap gun is inferior to your kannon. So if you have a battery of 3 you have 1 gun stronger than a kannon and 2 weaker most of the time.

If you want to go after av14 targets the Zzzaps are slightly better but you need to spam them to achieve this. Against av13 or lower the kannon is the better gun. Since the kannon is also cheaper and has an anit-infantry option go kannonz all the way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_ferrett wrote:Mr brave. Oh mr Brave. The object of my 'wisdom' is not to say yours is bad. The object of my wisdom is to assist people in using those units that you tell them never to take. I'm giving tactics fo the silence because Its a codex with loads of options and lots of possibility. The net seems to forget that. The net also forgets that the codex is designed to have that random flavour. Try less to tell me how 'wrong' I am, and instead, assuming you had to use these elements, tell me how you'd synergise, play and what importance you'd put on each. Might not be your playstyle - congatulations, you already have wonderful resources like Dash's blogs (something I would advise all ork players to at least read once). Just... give me the benifit of the doubt with this.

Well in the case of SAG's, Boomgunz, Kannonz, Rokkits and KMB's I wouldn't fire them at land raiders but rather something they are more likely to kill. I would sintead use the tools in the ork list designed for cracking landraiders to kill those landraiders. If all I'm facing is a wall of landraiders then I'm screwed because I brought checkers to a chess match but I would gamely have a pop. But next time I would remember to include some klaws/rollas etc.

If I have a warphead and roll up the zappy power, and have a land raider in range and los then I would shoot it at the landraider because duh.

Zzap guns have to declare a target before rolling their STR. Says so right in the FAQ.

Snikkyd wrote:

the_ferrett wrote:Snikkyd - The potential for str 10 AP 2 shots. With auto shaken if you manage to hit the vehicle in question.

Yeah, but is str 9 and 10 some of the time better than str 8 all the time? And frags. I'd like to see the math on it.

S9 and S10 can inflict penetrating hits. S8 cannot. Cracking a land raider with glancing hits? PITA!

Well if you have 9 Zzap guns, 3 will on average be str 9-10. If its 10, thats and average of 1 pen if they all hit which well say they do from ammo runts.

Destroyed or immobilized (so the klaws can get it) are what you need, so you have a 50/50 chance of doing that. No too bad I guess.

Well according to my calculation (you can check my math) a zapp gun has about a 1 percent chance of outright killing a landraider.

So you need a 9 or 10 for STR first off

STR9:
chance of getting 9 str 4/36
chance of pen 1/6
chance of wrecked or destroyed 1/3

(4/36)*(1/6)*(1.3)=(1/162)

STR 10:
chance of getting 10 str 6/36
chance of pen 1/3
chance of wrecked or destroyed 1/3

(6/36)*(1/3)*(1/3)=(1/54)

(1/54)+(1/162)-((1/54)*(1/162))=(215/8748)=0.0246*0.5=0.0123

The last 0.5 is for the gun's chance to hit.


I don't have time to calculate immobilized results right now but I will probably do so later this evening.


**Edit**

With a battery of 3 you have a 0.036 chance of killing a landraider. 0.072 if you assume autohits.

And what's your chance of one-hit-killing with krak kannon rounds?

0

My point is that with something like a land raider, you're going to need penetrating hits. It's all well and good to stop it firing more than one weapon next turn, and knocking off guns is nice. You might even immobilize it if you're lucky. The end result, though, is a lot of crew shaken results, which don't much bother land raiders to begin with. You've gotta get those penetrating hits to happen, and there's just no chance with krak kannons, no matter how lucky you are.

Granted, shooting them up isn't the best way to kill a LR if you're an ork, but if you have to shoot, figure out what to shoot.

Most things have been covered but ill put some new life into the subject.

If you really really want to pop AV 14 with shooting your best bet from my exp is thetank bustas. Yes yes they do have that silly rule. But you can help avoidthat by keeping them behinde things that block LOS plus in the case of the LR. LR ussually always move close to dump there load so odds are they will be easy to make the LR the closest target to attack. Plus you can use squig bombs with are a blast.

I have a shooty ork army and you can if you really want to pop av 14 with whats been talked about above but that isnt really what orks do or are good at. Yeah it can be done but you are alot better off doing it the orky way and do it in CC.