Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Out of curiosity, where do you draw the line? At what dollar amount does the mandatory "donation" become something to worry about?

If $2 is that big of a deal to you, 40k is not a hobby you should be into.

-Tyr

For me, charging any amount to participate in an even that is advertised as "free" is inappropriate.

I don't wanna bust the chops of the location in question, but if you have to charge something in order to have the space to host an event that is supposed to be free, then considerations should be made to host it elsewhere.

Now, for non-"free" events, they can charge whatever they want to cover the cost of the venue.

Saldiven wrote:People in that local area really should hold the GW reps feet to the fire on this one.

... .

Awesome literary reference!

Back on topic, if it was a donation people didn't have to pay.

If they were "guilted" into it, maybe it's because they recognised that $2 is absolute peanuts for entering an 80 man tournament or whatever it was.

Forcing people to donate in any situation is just plain wrong, since its extortion.

Utilizing popularity of another event to further your own agenda is also a morally gray area. If you want to throw a tournament to help fund raise for a cause, then organize and put the effort into it that the cause deserves.


I would be upset at getting blindsided by this. I plan my charitable donations for the year and do enough in other situations to not want to feel guilty over someone else push.


Later,
WR

jbunny wrote:For me Principle is always something to get worked up over. Not standing up allows $2, to turn into $5, which turns into $10. Not over night of course, but it can and has happened like that before.

So you didn't play? That would be standing up for your principles.

Don't tell me you let yourself get pushed around by the greedy little store and forced to compromise your principles!

mikhaila wrote:

jbunny wrote:For me Principle is always something to get worked up over. Not standing up allows $2, to turn into $5, which turns into $10. Not over night of course, but it can and has happened like that before.

So you didn't play? That would be standing up for your principles.

Don't tell me you let yourself get pushed around by the greedy little store and forced to compromise your principles!

Sounds to me like the store was not being greedy. If they advertised the $2 donation ahead of time there is not much you can do as you always have options.

WhiteRaven wrote:Forcing people to donate in any situation is just plain wrong, since its extortion.
Utilizing popularity of another event to further your own agenda is also a morally gray area. If you want to throw a tournament to help fund raise for a cause, then organize and put the effort into it that the cause deserves.
I would be upset at getting blindsided by this. I plan my charitable donations for the year and do enough in other situations to not want to feel guilty over someone else push.
Later,
WR

It wasn't a "charitable donation". It's a 2.00 fee to use the space that each person pays for all of the events they hold there, from open gaming to tournaments.

mikhaila wrote:

jbunny wrote:For me Principle is always something to get worked up over. Not standing up allows $2, to turn into $5, which turns into $10. Not over night of course, but it can and has happened like that before.

So you didn't play? That would be standing up for your principles.

Don't tell me you let yourself get pushed around by the greedy little store and forced to compromise your principles!

Actually I did not play in that event thank you. Of course I never went to the store and never had any intentions as it is in a different part of the country from me.

Now had I shown up, and they told me I had to pay a donation to play, I would of packed up and left. No I will not be pushed around by anyone.

Also according to the way I read the OP, the store did not advertise ahead of time. At least not to the out of town folks that traveled to it.

WhiteRaven wrote:Forcing people to donate in any situation is just plain wrong, since its extortion.

Utilizing popularity of another event to further your own agenda is also a morally gray area. If you want to throw a tournament to help fund raise for a cause, then organize and put the effort into it that the cause deserves.


I would be upset at getting blindsided by this. I plan my charitable donations for the year and do enough in other situations to not want to feel guilty over someone else push.


Later,
WR

You people are bitching about $2?

I am bithcing about a principle. As mentioned before what is the magic dollar amount where bitching is allowed?

If people who play warhammer cant afford 2$ then y oure probably in the wrong hobby... This isnt exactly a game that the strapped for cash play

Frazzled wrote:

WhiteRaven wrote:Forcing people to donate in any situation is just plain wrong, since its extortion.

Utilizing popularity of another event to further your own agenda is also a morally gray area. If you want to throw a tournament to help fund raise for a cause, then organize and put the effort into it that the cause deserves.


I would be upset at getting blindsided by this. I plan my charitable donations for the year and do enough in other situations to not want to feel guilty over someone else push.


Later,
WR

You people are bitching about $2?

Its not about the $2.

Its about GW offering a Free Tournament, and someone abusing the marketing that GW puts in for their own gain clearly without permission. If the organizer cannot provide the service GW requires (a free tournament) they should not be holding it.

It would be same as attending a tournament advertised as $20 entry and you get there and its $22 all of a sudden. Or getting your cell phone bill that you signed up for a $20 plan and get a bill for more. Hidden fees are wrong. I'm sorry sticking up for an ideal comes off as harsh, but in this case it needs to be a black and white line.

Later,
WR

WhiteRaven wrote:Its about GW offering a Free Tournament, and someone abusing the marketing that GW puts in for their own gain clearly without permission. If the organizer cannot provide the service GW requires (a free tournament) they should not be holding it.

As Mikhaila pointed out several times above, GW does allow stores to recoup expenses for renting space.

Kirasu wrote:If people who play warhammer cant afford 2$ then y oure probably in the wrong hobby... This isnt exactly a game that the strapped for cash play

Other than maybe you were not strapped for cash when you purchased your models, and something has since happened. And before you talk about travel, I have offered several people who I knew could not afford the travel to let them ride with me and stay in my hotel for free. So that is not relavent.

jesus. if its the ONLY store within many miles, and the ONLY way they can have enough space is to pay for it, then you should be grateful you only have to pay $2 to play there.

the store is doing you all a FAVOR by hosting the tournament at all. they make no money off of it, other than people buying models. you cannot expect them to absorb the cost of a tournament like this.

In short, quit your bitching, and deal. $2 isn't enough to even say your sacrificing principals for, I've wiped my ass with more than that.

WhiteRaven wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

WhiteRaven wrote:Forcing people to donate in any situation is just plain wrong, since its extortion.

Utilizing popularity of another event to further your own agenda is also a morally gray area. If you want to throw a tournament to help fund raise for a cause, then organize and put the effort into it that the cause deserves.


I would be upset at getting blindsided by this. I plan my charitable donations for the year and do enough in other situations to not want to feel guilty over someone else push.


Later,
WR

You people are bitching about $2?

Its not about the $2.

Its about GW offering a Free Tournament, and someone abusing the marketing that GW puts in for their own gain clearly without permission. If the organizer cannot provide the service GW requires (a free tournament) they should not be holding it.

It would be same as attending a tournament advertised as $20 entry and you get there and its $22 all of a sudden. Or getting your cell phone bill that you signed up for a $20 plan and get a bill for more. Hidden fees are wrong. I'm sorry sticking up for an ideal comes off as harsh, but in this case it needs to be a black and white line.

Later,
WR

You're still arguing ABOUT $2.

"Do not hide behind such superficialities as whether you should or should not give a dime to a beggar. That is not the issue. The issue is whether you do or do not have the right to exist without giving him that dime. The issue is whether you must keep buying your life, dime by dime, from any beggar who might choose to approach you. The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence. The issue is whether man is to be regarded as a sacrificial animal. Any man of self-esteem will answer: 'No.' Altruism says: 'Yes.'" ~ Ayn Rand

Don't mind me I don't like "forced" donations very much though.

Honers, I am sending you my address. Will you please send me $2 since it is no big, and not any viloation of your principles.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:"Do not hide behind such superficialities as whether you should or should not give a dime to a beggar. That is not the issue. The issue is whether you do or do not have the right to exist without giving him that dime. The issue is whether you must keep buying your life, dime by dime, from any beggar who might choose to approach you. The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence. The issue is whether man is to be regarded as a sacrificial animal. Any man of self-esteem will answer: 'No.' Altruism says: 'Yes.'" ~ Ayn Rand

Don't mind me I don't like "forced" donations very much though.

its not forced. Those who played didn't have to play.

I'm surprised Hard Boyz had to be free. I thought they were more popular. Explains a lot.

I still want to know what the magic dollar amount is where it Does become a "big deal".

Something more than the cost of coffee.

So, some place rents a nice tourney venue and charges 2$ and people freak out.

GW raises prices, and people freakout and still buy the stuff.

I think people just want to complain.

I'll pay the 2$ for some breathing room and not to have to get rubbed up against when the tables are like 1 foot apart.

I would pay the $2, on the condition I knew about it in advance.

As some one who has been to the Hobbit many times over the last 6 - 7 years I think this whole argument / discussion is another "classic" example of "Someone on the internet complaining about something because of their own personal motives and then the MASSES believing them and getting their stuff twisted over someone's VIEW of reality."

This thread makes me sick.

----------

You want facts. Here is facts.

The Hobbit is a small store located in Fayetteville, NC.

Beside the store is a Bingo Hall owned by the ASPCA.

When the Hobbit opens up the Bingo Hall to gaming, they ask for a donation that goes the ASPCA. It's their way of saying thank you to the ASPCA for them allowing the Hobbit to use their space in the Bingo Hall for tournaments or open gaming on certain Saturdays out of the month.

At current this donation is $2.00. It used to be that a simple donation was asked for and people would give what they wanted to. Why it was switched to $2.00 I'm not sure. What I do know is that people did sometimes give more than that and sometimes they gave less than that or nothing at all.

So if you game at the store or go to a tournament they ask for a "donation."

Here is the part that personally has gotten me twisted about a lot of the posts in this thread.

ARE YOU READY?

Here is the punch line.

IT'S A DONATION.

If you don't want to pay $2.00 to play. Then you don't have to. They ask you, sure. Rick my ask you a couple times. But, all you have to do is say NO. Just say "No, I don't feel like donating today." or "No, I don't have $2.00 in cash on me and don't want to buy anything from the store." or "No, I already donated to X Charity this month maybe I will next time."

That's it!

I fail to see how this suddenly became a "MANDATORY FEE TO PLAY IN THE ARD BOYS SEMI FINALS!"

Can someone explain it to me?

In case you were wondering I was also there. I did donate $2.00 and I didn't play in the tournament. I did it because my friends play there locally and if the ASPCA decides not to let The Hobbit run tournaments there anymore then their gaming community will take a huge hit. I only play there 2 - 3 times a year because it is out of town for me. But, I understand the cause so help out when I go.

Again.

I'll ask again.

WHEN DID THIS SUDDENLY BECOME A MANDATORY FEE TO PLAY IN THE ARD BOYS SEMI FINALS?

People saying that are not telling the truth.

If you didn't want to pay $2.00 you didn't have to. All you had to do was say "No, Rick! This is a free tournament" or something to that effect.

---

This is ridiculous and once again shows the negative power of the internet.

---

Also before anyone asks. I am in no way affiliated with The Hobbit in any way. I am local to Cary, NC and go there for tournaments or to sometimes game with my friends.

---

So I guess I'll close with this.

The Hobbit doesn't MAKE YOU PAY TO PLAY. They ask you to donate. If you want to, you can. If you don't want to, then don't. Don't confuse Rick asking you to donate in a strong tone, because that's Rick and that's how he is, with something else. To quote the person above "An Italian Mobster YOU BETTER PAY OR ELSE" or something to that effect.

Rick is a big guy. I'm 6'1" 185 lbs. And Rick is taller than me and bulkier. He is an older guy who was in the military for a long time. He lives in a military town. If he has a strong tone, well, that's Rick. If that intimidates you and you are not comfortable enough with yourself as a grown man to tell another grown man NO. Then I think that is a problem for another thread on possibly another forum.

There have been times where I have gamed there and not paid. There are times when I have paid.

---

Hopefully this puts the thread to rest. As anything beyond what I posted is probably not the truth in regards to The Hobbit and their donation policy. (Other than the one guy near the top who kinda hit the nail on the head I think)

---

Mind you. Not once did I mention the "Cut your nose to spite your face" thought of getting The Hobbit banned from throwing the second round. As, to my knowledge, no other store in NC could host it, so you would have to drive to another state. I didn't mention that because people would have yelled about the "principal" of it. Which I guess if they FORCED YOU TO PAY A CHARGE FOR A FREE TOURNAMENT I WOULD UNDERSTAND. But, as that is not the case and as I didn't want people to think I had a different agenda. I made my post with the truth at the forefront about their donation policy. And, am only mentioning the banning of The Hobbit from hosting a tournament, because I thought it was funny.

Sarigar wrote:
If the Hobbit dropped it (which is possible as they don't make money off of it), there's no one in the area that can accomodate 40+ players for a one day tourney. Be prepared to travel out of state. I'm sure it'll cost more than $2, however.

Hitpoint Hobbies in Southern Pines can host about 50 gamers, and they were expecting to get semi-finals this year.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mikhaila wrote:
2$?? That's all they asked for? That's not even the gas to drive across town, or 1/3 of what you'd spend on lunch. Who cares?

2$?

And.....yep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Honersstodnt wrote:jesus. if its the ONLY store within many miles, and the ONLY way they can have enough space is to pay for it, then you should be grateful you only have to pay $2 to play there.

the store is doing you all a FAVOR by hosting the tournament at all. they make no money off of it, other than people buying models. you cannot expect them to absorb the cost of a tournament like this.

In short, quit your bitching, and deal. $2 isn't enough to even say your sacrificing principals for, I've wiped my ass with more than that.

Although I have to contest this point.


There a couple other stores within an hour or three of this one capable of holding 40-50 gamers in their store space without having to rent another space. One of them (Hitpoint Hobbies) thought that they were going to get to host semi-finals because they lobbied for it and have the room for it.

While there's nothing wrong with a $2 space fee, there *is* something funny about having a store that doesn't have the room host it when others can.

And for precedent: Suncoast Comics in FL rented the restaurant next door to host semi-finals. They didn't pass the cost on to the gamers, but rather used the event as free marketing and to get people into the store. I bet they sold enough soda alone to cover the cost of the restaurant.

Aduro wrote:Out of curiosity, where do you draw the line? At what dollar amount does the mandatory "donation" become something to worry about?

+1

Who cares about the freaking amount? Yeah, it may be less than what I pay for a bottle of shampoo, however I do not go to the store expecting that shampoo to be free. When we went last year, they said "donation for the pet rescue" or whatever. Call it what you will, but be honest. It's a damn fee to play there. It's no donation, it's a fee to play in the semi-finals of a tournament that is supposed to be free and is advertised heavily about it being free.

It's not about the amount. It's the fact that they are charging for something that is supposed to be free.

I would be ticked if I was paying for anything that was supposed to be free, regardless of amount.

*edit* As for the person saying "it's not mandatory", whatever. I felt strong-armed to pay it and I'm sure that many people feel the same way. I also said, "donation to pay in a free tourney?" and the guy at the door (with a judge shirt on) said "yep, gotta pay to play". Didn't sound very optional at the time.

I spent $2 for pop at the vending machines at the store I played at. $2 was less than the tax on my hotel room for that weekend.

Was the store up front about the existence of the fee or donation for the use of the space? If it was, then there's absolutely nothing to complain about. It's already been pointed out that stores are allowed to charge a fee if they rent out space to hold the event.

Hmm...

@Dash: I have been to Hit Point. Liked the store owner a lot. How he had the store set up at the time it didn't look like he could accommodate that many tables. Maybe it was the set up. The owner was a super nice guy though.

@Dodiez: If you went last year and the $2.00 upset you so. Why did you go back this year if you knew they would ask for a donation? Was there something else that happened this year that made you not enjoy playing there? If it bothered you as much as it seems, then why would you put yourself through the frustration again? As far as being strong armed. I have never felt that way and I have said NO before. /shrug

I went last year and donated $2. At no point did they say it was mandatory. It was explained, I agreed, end of story.

By the way, when was the last $2 tournament any of you attended?