What are the Top Tier Armies in 8th Edition?

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**RiTides**

radiohazard wrote:When did they stop 2-4-1 on the bolt throwers???
This is the first I've heard about it.

It would be sorely welcome with the increase of artillery, but I have not heard this, either...

**radiohazard**

I've got two games tomorrow using 8th ed with a borrowed Dwarf army.

2k vs OK.
2K vs Skaven.

Should be intersting to see how I hold up.

**nieto666**

Its in the BRB, notice how the DE and current HE lists are looking with only 2 repeating olt throwers under 3000 points? Of course i could be mistaken. If thats not the case then my DE's are more beast then they were before. Imagine 7 reaper bolt throwers at 3000 pts. Can you say broken much? The same would also apply to HE. The reason being is you're allowed four rare of the same type in 3k+ games. So with that being said and if it is still 2 for 1 then DE's and HE's will be able to field 7 of these bad boys in 3k games. Honestly I wouldn't complain if it was 2 for 1 with bolt throwers as I play both HE and DE, it would just mean I need to buy alot more reaper and reapeater bolt throwers thats all.

**Minsc**

OK you should do fine, provided you have any units w/ Great Weapons. HW&S doesn't work as well any more, but GW's can chew through Ogres like no tomorrow - going simultaneous, five wide front gets as many attacks as three charging Iron Guts at better hit rate (and, if Longbeards, equal wound-rate too).

Skaven are likely to be the biggest threat, depending on how much you can saturate them with shooting / your shop's stance on how Dwarven Anti-Magic works.

**sniperjolly**

OK will also get a massive boost, it was almost "armybook, nerf VC/Deamons, make OK better." with three wide, two deep units getting 18 attacks, and six wide, three deep getting 54, things will get chewed through. I forsee a rise in bull usage, and a drop in 'gutspam.

**radiohazard**

My shops stance is the 7th ed rules with the +2 to dispel.

**Karvick**

Untill the book is out and the errata's are posted I still think DE are going to suffer. I rarely see a competitive list that dosn't have ether Morathi or Malekith and the new magic rules could kill such lists. The lore of dark magic which was so good may become a shadow of it's former self.

**radiohazard**

Well I just got slaughtered by Ogres.
If an ogre player takes a Massive unit of bulls and a few units of Ironguts and Leadbelchers, what the hell am I supposed to go after???

They're an army that messes with your head. As soon as you've dealt with what you think is the big threat, the rest of the army is on you.

I really underestimated the Ogres and payed dearly for it.

Seriously, Ogres are good.

**ser_hag**

@karvick:

wha wha? dark elves are beastly now, moreso than before IMO.

morathi is a steal for what she does...+5 to cast and she knows all the spells? the dark list is still good.

rxb guys firing in 2 ranks is great. the cauldron is awesome. witch elves and black guard i6? fabulous. and lets not even talk about they hydra...

**Casper**

It's all going to depend on the PDF's.

That being said, Deamons and VC should still be ok. You can only have 2d6 PD at one time...if they can use the lore of death PD won't be an issue.

**Sergeant Horse**

i think if your army book says you can have two for one, you still can do it...at least until the erratas come out

**Kroothawk**

It is difficult to rate the army books with their 8th edition errata/update, when noboody has seen the errata/update-pdf.

**radiohazard**

I think an anti magic (all Khorne) list might do well, but I think that the days of dominate DoC are certainly numbered.

**nieto666**

radiohazard wrote:I think an anti magic (all Khorne) list might do well, but I think that the days of dominate DoC are certainly numbered.

Amen to that now daemon players actually have to play a game, instead of rolling tons of dice and casting magic everywhere.

**Malleus**

Bolt throwers are still 2-for-1, meaning that up to six can be taken. Hardly crippling. Actually, the biggest problem dwarfs are likely to have is cramming all their special choices into 50% of their list. You could quite easily make a 75% special dwarf list that would be disgustingly good.

**radiohazard**

So true malleus.

If you take two types of warmachines and a unit of Hammerers, it should suffice. Take bolt throwers and cannon vs ogres, WoC and DoC and Grudge Throwers and bolt throwers vs everything else. Should do ok.
The only time you should ever take Cannon and Grudge Thrower is against Beasts of Chaos as they can field a ton of little guys and loads of big guys.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Back on topic...

This is what I think is going to be the tier list in order...

Dwarfs and Empire - tied. Warmachines and missile troops.

Skaven - Hordes and Warmchines - LOL

High Elves - Sea Guard and that dreaded ASF.

Dark Elves - Didn't really lose anything, and gained firepower.

Lizardmen - Skink Spam with Slann and Steggy back up is crazy good.

Daemons - Oh how the mighty have fallen. They're still good, but there isn't a broken list like before.

Warriors of Chaos - Probably tied with Daemons because they are amazing at combat, but lack in numbers.

Ogre Kingdoms - The only reason they are this low down is because they need a really experienced player to be able to win consistantly. I think they are better than this, but general consensus makes me put them this low in the list. BUT BE WARNED... If you face Ogres, don't be shocked if you lose, they are now crazy crazy good in the right hands.

Vampire Counts - According to their players 8th has totally boned these guys.

Orcs - Still not good, but much better than...

Tomb Kings - Whose new Army Book fixes them. Watch this space.

Wood Elves - Hands down the worst army on the list. They have very few answers vs the other armies threats, where as the other armies have answers to everything the Asrai have. They can't even hold objectives well either. It's a shame.

Beasts - I don't know where to place them. I'm not all that knowledgable about them.

Brettonians - Not a clue. Part of me says real bad though.

**Infreak**

I don't think the Bretts are going to be that bad. They have Men-at-Arms, which would be able to take advantage of the horde rule. They also have archers which can take advantage of firing in multiple ranks. Two things I fully expect to see many players try to take advantage of.

Now I haven't had a look at the book yet, but I remember reading somewhere on dakka that units on monterous mounts allow you to recieve +1 to your armor save, which would make Pegasus Knights a little bit better.

The Trebuchet is S5(10) so thats not too bad. Better then other stone throwers and being able to take two of them in a 1k is a plus.

Questing Knights are actually going to be a bit more useful since they benefit from the +2 str from their GW now.

The magic phase was a glaring weakness when it comes to these guys, but with the magic being a bit more equal on all fronts they should fair a bit better.

The only real problem they're gonna have is with the lance formation and attacking in initiative order. With step-up the lance formation is less useful and if they're going second it's even less useful. I can see this getting an errata since the lance formation doesn't give any sort of edge in CC anymore.

Like it's been said, it's hard to tell how some armies will do since we're expecting erratas for each army. It could balance the armies out even more or tilt power in favour of come armies.

**gendoikari87**

Well i play my first 8th edition Lizardmen today. Don't know much but I'll be running something close to my army from sunday (7th edition tournament). I will be getting rid of the old carnosaur though soon. Slann are just way too good to pass up.

**ShivanAngel**

gendoikari87 wrote:Well i play my first 8th edition Lizardmen today. Don't know much but I'll be running something close to my army from sunday (7th edition tournament). I will be getting rid of the old carnosaur though soon. Slann are just way too good to pass up.

Yeah i was playing a 2250 game with my skaven and watching a lizard go against high elves. He intentionally miscast on turn one ( I dont think its a good idea but meh), Rolled a 4 on the miscast table, and cupped hands it to the lvl 4 high elf archmage who was also the general....

Turn one general kill....

**radiohazard**

That is highlarious Shiv.

**gendoikari87**

ShivanAngel wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:Well i play my first 8th edition Lizardmen today. Don't know much but I'll be running something close to my army from sunday (7th edition tournament). I will be getting rid of the old carnosaur though soon. Slann are just way too good to pass up.

Yeah i was playing a 2250 game with my skaven and watching a lizard go against high elves. He intentionally miscast on turn one ( I dont think its a good idea but meh), Rolled a 4 on the miscast table, and cupped hands it to the lvl 4 high elf archmage who was also the general....

Turn one general kill....

Don't miscasts go off now with irresistable force? If you can seriously intentionally miscast give the miscast result to another wizard, and still have you're super spell go off. That would be broken as all get out and super cheese as well.

**ShivanAngel**

gendoikari87 wrote:
ShivanAngel wrote:
gendoikari87 wrote:Well i play my first 8th edition Lizardmen today. Don't know much but I'll be running something close to my army from sunday (7th edition tournament). I will be getting rid of the old carnosaur though soon. Slann are just way too good to pass up.

Yeah i was playing a 2250 game with my skaven and watching a lizard go against high elves. He intentionally miscast on turn one ( I dont think its a good idea but meh), Rolled a 4 on the miscast table, and cupped hands it to the lvl 4 high elf archmage who was also the general....

Turn one general kill....
Don't miscasts go off now with irresistable force? If you can seriously intentionally miscast give the miscast result to another wizard, and still have you're super spell go off. That would be broken as all get out and super cheese as well.

Its a one use only item that lets lizardmen redirect a miscast to a enemy caster in LoS...

So he cant just keep on miscasting and redirecting it.

Its hardly worse then the WoC trick that forces a caster to miscast then they can even alter the roll to make it worse.

**gendoikari87**

Even Just once is bad enough.

**bd1085**

VC - Still have some nasty in their army book, don't count them out. Blood Knights, Combat Lords, and large units of skeletons are not to be trifled with. Despite I haven't heard good things from some friends, I still think VC can dish it out.

Having played a few games so far...here are my top 5.

1. High Elves
2. Dark Elves
3. Warriors of Chaos
4. Skaven
5. Empire

(I'd put Skaven and Empire at a tie for 4th and 5th.)

Lizardmen - they're low Initiative is gonna make them suffer but Stegadons are meaner than before.

Dwarves - they're gonna bring the noise

Wood Elves - don't even bother

Orcs & Goblins - solid potential and can field a lot of units. Haven't heard or seen anything but like VC, I wouldn't count them out just yet.

DoC - CC daemons back by a lvl 4...intimidating. Still, I think with Magic and Combat changing they've taken a nerf.

Ogres - solid potential. I'd like to see how Gut Magic is going to get errata'd.

Beasts - mean mean mean! I'd put them at number 6 since they're down right nasty in CC and outflanking Ambush is going to hurt.

**Ozymandias**

Hmmm... was planning on painting up my WE for my 8th ed army but maybe I'll restart that ancient Empire army collecting dust...

I'm both excited and distraught over my VC. I'm looking forward to not having to intentionally handicap my own army and getting to use large blocks but I'm not excited about the nerf for magic and fear/terror for these guys (I do however think they are good changes overall).

**nieto666**

I beg to differ with the Wood Elves, Ive played three games with them against so called superior armies and won. Dyrads defiantely got a whole hell of alot better for 8th ed. Im just gonna need more of them thats all. On the other hand wild riders are worthless now, better off going with glade riders and harrass your oppenant and threaten his flanks with them.

**Ozymandias**

How are Dryads better? It seems skirmishers got weaker in this edition.

**Minsc**

Ozymandias wrote:How are Dryads better? It seems skirmishers got weaker in this edition.

Dryads are one of the few Skirmishers meant solely for combat. While they're less effective now at maneuverability, as Wood Elves they already had a bit of an edge (moving trees), as well as the fact that they're now getting more attacks from support and are Stubborn in woods.

Most units are worse now as they were meant simply to flank-guard or provide mobile shooting. Dryads, to my understanding, rarely did either.

**silence indigo**

Am I wrong, but isn't the Gnoblar army list suddently all the more powerful with the boost given to ranks in 8th edition? I know they are not authorised as non-codex armies are not in tournaments, but in regular games it seems Gnoblars are now not as bad as they were? Maybe not able to stand the most powerful armies' challenge (now that Dwarfs can run faster than cavalry), but still decent enough by sheer weight of numbers.

Aklso, suddenly the new army list build-up makes the spawning Boglars an attractive Rare choice, since everything is cheap in a Gnoblar army you can get the maximum number of rare and special units allowed...

And of course there's the option of running an almost 100% Gnoblar-based Ogre army for official tournaments, with only HQ choices being a limitation, if I understand well.

**Tzeentchling9**

radiohazard wrote:
Vampire Counts - According to their players 8th has totally boned these guys.

I don't get why people say this. VC Magic is still mean, Vamps still cause hurt, and their Rares can be quite surprising(Anyone else notice how fast the Black Coach can power up now? Thunderstomping Varghulfs anyone? Restrainable Bloodknights?).

VC players just need different tactics now(like everyone else). Your tactic of "Danse in, Vamps kill front rank, force auto-break" is gone, deal with it. Stop crying and adapt.