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I am interested in Warhammer Fantasy. I want to play an army that has a decent chance of winning once in awhile, so, like the subject line says . . .

What are the Top Tier Armies in 8th Edition?

IMO

Demons
Dark Elves
Vampire Counts
Dwarves
High Elves
Skaven
Empire

this is in a tournament setting of course where comp and other factors are being taken in. Some of these are of course debatable. Dwarves got a giant power boost in 8th.

Zenkaron wrote:IMO

Demons
Dark Elves
Vampire Counts
Dwarves
High Elves
Skaven
Empire

this is in a tournament setting of course where comp and other factors are being taken in. Some of these are of course debatable. Dwarves got a giant power boost in 8th.

Yeah i think dwarves are going to be one of those armies that people are like wow wtf did that come from, they couldnt do that in 7th...

Their average charge went from 6 to 10 inches, you can do longer just stand outside their charge range and laugh at them. Gunlines got stronger with no guessing, however i think a heavy combat dwarf army is going to be the new thing. Dwarves are TOUGH in combat, and with stepping up, and what not i think they are going to be very very powerful.

Dwarves also have - depending on how the FAQ is written - a complete shut-out capability of magic in one character: Single Rune Lord + Anvil, no other upgrades / purchases, would (as written right now) give Dwarves +5 Dispel Dice and +2 to all their Dispel attempts.

Dwarves only really lost out this edition in that their "Great Weapon, Hand Weapon, Shield" units have to go Great Weapon now. They didn't really lose out on Stone Throwers even as they can just jack the strength up to where it was and add some armor penetration / wounding capability.

Yes to all of that list, but I think that VC and Deamons won't be as good in 8th. They will still be strong, but not the best.

If your Vampire Lord gets abad miscast and blows up, your army is toast. And there is a much higher chance of that in 8th. From what I have seen/played of 8th so far, there usually are not any spell casters left after turn 3-4.

Also the power Tzench deamon build that gets 20+ casting dice will not be as good.

Underpinning both of these armies is the 2d6 magic pool. if you roll 1 and anything, you probably won't get any spells off in that phase.

I think this new edition will favour balanced lists which can do a bit of everything well. Empire, Dwarves, High Elves, Dark Elves and Skaven will be at the top, in my opinion.

I think the new rules have also given a boost to Lizarmen.

nieto666 wrote:I think the new rules have also given a boost to Lizarmen.

Was just about to mention that.

RaW make slanns look particularly devastating.

All spells from the lore, A free dice for each spell, plus preventing the first miscast.

Stegadons get thunderstomp.

Blowpipes got better since you always wound on a 6 regardless of the armies toughness...

The Tzeentch power build got destroyed pretty much with the new way magic works. I ran a slaanesh//khorne army and it did amazing. Those 2 gods are amazing in CC. Had 2 units of flamers as well which are more amazing then before. So with demons you'll see more CC builds which are even stronger now. With the VC you just have to be careful throwing 2-3 dice at a spell unless you really want it to go off. I've watched a few lizardmen players and i havent been impress with their infantry being Int 1 and costly. Their supporting attacks got hurt since its only 1 instead of the base 2 on their profile. I have heard some orge players are very happy about the new rules. I would hope with the errata that all armies roll on the new miscast table (ie OG. Orges.)

Yeah CC daemons supported by a level 4 caster could be particularly devastating now..

ShivanAngel wrote:Yeah CC daemons supported by a level 4 caster could be particularly devastating now..

i tested out this list

Keeper

2 heralds of slaanesh
1 herald of khorne

2 blocks 6 wide of slaanesh
1 block of letters

2 units of 6 flamers


won by turn 3 i think.

Keeper did 12 wounds before black guard even got to strike back.

Kairos Fateweaver....

That guy is going to be so stupid insanely broken now... errr still..

Oh look i get + 2 to casting.

Then crap i rolled , let me reroll one of those bad boys!

ShivanAngel wrote:Kairos Fateweaver....

That guy is going to be so stupid insanely broken now... errr still..

except he can no longer be taken in 2250 games. This was their easy way to limit "OP" lords

I highly doubt VC is going to be in the top tier, same with Daemons. Daemons are going to take a massive hit due to them actually having to take 25% core <(._.)> and step up/fighting in 2 ranks means that they are taking more casualties. Plus the fact that big monsters can no longer break ranks, so the BT is not just going to run through entire armies.
For VC it's simply a matter of taking a load of crappy troops in a game that will be focused on troops.
Greetz,
Mr. Self Destruct

i have always taken more then 25% core and won almost any game ive fielded my army. They always get their save where as most armies wont get a save or something in the rage of maybe a 6+. Demons getting more attacks isnt a good thing for other armies. A BT did go down in power, but the keeper is the one i always field or a lord of change. The Keeper is by far the best CC demon there is, if not the best greater demon now if you know how its used along with the correct powers.

The best answer is "We won't know until about 6 months in".

Valhallan42nd wrote:The best answer is "We won't know until about 6 months in".

We can have an inkling for the next six, however. Most stores are starting 8th Edition games at 2000+ point levels this or next week to "try out" / familiarize people with the rules ahead of time. While just this moment is only based off theory-hammer (Dwarves can get +eleventy dispel dice!), in this time we should quickly learn which possibilities are and aren't as broken as they seem (similarly, which armies are more or less broken than they appear).

The only one I think can, 100%, without a doubt, no questions be a certain "Is not Top Tier" is Orcs & Goblins, as it's pretty much impossible to turn "Unit can't act 1/6th turns in the game / is forced into a bad position just as often" into "Cream of the crop".

Minsc wrote:

Valhallan42nd wrote:The best answer is "We won't know until about 6 months in".

We can have an inkling for the next six, however. Most stores are starting 8th Edition games at 2000+ point levels this or next week to "try out" / familiarize people with the rules ahead of time. While just this moment is only based off theory-hammer (Dwarves can get +eleventy dispel dice!), in this time we should quickly learn which possibilities are and aren't as broken as they seem (similarly, which armies are more or less broken than they appear).

The only one I think can, 100%, without a doubt, no questions be a certain "Is not Top Tier" is Orcs & Goblins, as it's pretty much impossible to turn "Unit can't act 1/6th turns in the game / is forced into a bad position just as often" into "Cream of the crop".

I have a feeling since dwarves got +2 to all dispell rolls they are going to lose all their bonus dispell dice. (or the get to channel for each runelord/Runesmith)

Just gonna have to wait for the erratas on the dwarves to see how boss they're going to be.

Plus rats got crazy good. Watched em devastat a pretty good DE list. The black guard with ASF got their arses handed to them by rats with spears. Not to include the hydra got bogged down by the bell in a unit of stormvermin and got severily punished for its afronts, althoug the breath weapon is pretty kool in cc it still wasnt enough though.

Using a big nasty unit to try to take the bell unit is a bad idea. I have easily had my bell hold off bloodthirsters, lords on dragons, etc for the entire game.

Trust me I play them alot in my area and noramlly just try to break the units around the bell. Normally I shoot that unit if there is no storm banner. Or when if fizzes out.

I haven't played enough of 8th to support my argument, but...

I think Empire will be a higher tier army.
*Cheap characters (Warrior Priests are going to be worth it finally) and nearly every list should include at least one General of the Empire.
*Having 50% Special is huge. Multiple Cannons, Mortars, pistoliers/outriders, even greatswords are more functional
*Empire has cheap infantry. I'm interested in seeing how the Detachment rules are adjusted for 8th. If they count as having ASF or +1 Initiative then that will be huge.

Personally I'm dropping all State Troops that are not Swordsmen Initiative 4 is the new black.

Dwarfs IMO are going to be uber.

They can dominate every phase except movement, but that is a moot point.

Their base troops are tough and can really pack a punch at range. In CC they are one of the most resiliant armies that WHFB has. Also, they rarely run away.

IMO, they have one weakness. They are slower than every other army.

I think the way to offset the Dwarfs low Initiative is to just give them Great Weapons. Having nearly an entire army with multiple ranked GW attacks is going to put the hurt on somebody. As expensive as Rangers are I think that they are going to be more useful. Ranks of crossbows followed by GWs will be useful. I think some of the new anti-flyer Magic Items will help benefit the Dwarfs as well.

It's a given that their shooting is improved, but M3 will still be a hinderance. A smart player will still use that against them.

Now the Master Rune of Challenge should be in every army. I'm also interested in seeing if the Gyrocopter's steam gun will be considered a Breath Weapon.

It's always been a case for dwarfs to take GW as they usually do ASL and thanks to the new cc rules they will greatly benefit from GW, moreso then any other army.

I throw this in for discussion...

Is there any point in taking a rune master and anvil, when a lord can give us a second unit of longbeards over the standard warriors??? Should we just take Runesmiths as heroes when any dwarf can effectively be a rune caddy???

Just think... Two units of WS 5, Str 4 infantry with great weapons, backed up by a ton of ranged firepower and warmachines.
Sounds scary.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
But back on topic on my part...

I think that DoC and VC will be taking a huge hit because of the new magic rules.

DE will take less of a hit because a lot of their other units got a pretty big boost, so they'll be staying quite high up.

Dwarfs and Empire will be high up, with Empire edging ahead due to the huge amount of diversity and sheer firepower.

Skaven will be really nasty (nothing new there then) and Chaos Warriors are going to be good just because their basic troops are amazing, if expensive.

Just my two cents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit - You do need Rune Smiths to be rune caddys. But dwarves still are the best at anti magic.

Mr. Self Destruct wrote:I highly doubt VC is going to be in the top tier, same with Daemons. Daemons are going to take a massive hit due to them actually having to take 25% core <(._.)> and step up/fighting in 2 ranks means that they are taking more casualties. Plus the fact that big monsters can no longer break ranks, so the BT is not just going to run through entire armies.
For VC it's simply a matter of taking a load of crappy troops in a game that will be focused on troops.
Greetz,
Mr. Self Destruct

i agree with this 100 %. i have a really hard time thinking of a way to make vampires good. demons are still alright, but without greater demons (i.e. 2000 points) i think theyre really going to struggle. i mean look at their core:

plaguebearers= gargbage. they were good before with a kitted out herald, but not getting both the ward and regeneration steals a lot of their thunder.
bloodletters= hit hard, but have only 1 attack and are t3 with only a 5+ save. i4 means elves of any stripe will just cream them before they get to go.
demonettes= better. high i, lots of attacks. will still die in droves in the counterattack.
horrors= best. level 1 wizards that you dont feel bad about throwing 1 die spells with.

considering you have to spend 25% of your points on these guys, playing demons seems nowhere near as problematic.

the specials took a bit of a hit as well, fleshounds cant wipe the front rank anymore. seekers are still t3 with a crappy save so any remotely decent missile unit will wreck them (though the no stand and shoot/flee banner helps a bit). nurglings and screamers retain their 'meh' status.

flamers retain their 'wtf stupid good' status however.

You can still take a GD in 2000 pts, but he will be basic. Bloodthirster is the best on here.

But you are right, DoC are not going to do well at 2k.

ugh, my Vampires took such a beating with 8th, they will be nowhere near top tier for quite a while, its going to be tough to figure out how to make them viable again since all their core units fold like crazy to the step up attacks the enemy forces on them, add in counting ranks at the END of combat, and you have some crumbly badness occuring

Sadly enough I think that Dwarfs will be the new daemons with all of the war machines they can put on the table.

In a standard 2500 game, 6 Bolt throwers, 3 Cannons, 3 Grudge Launchers upgraded to strength 4 or 5, 2 Organ Guns, and 2 blocks of warriors to protect against anything that makes it through will own nearly anything except Skaven with the storm banner.

Bolt throwers no longer count as 2 for 1 anymore. So it would be 3 bolt throwers not 6.

also keep in mind Empire can be just as bad with games of 2500 pts, 3 cannons, 3 mortars, 2 volley guns, 2 rocket batteries. Thats a whole lot of nasty comeing from both empire and dwarves.

When did they stop 2-4-1 on the bolt throwers???
This is the first I've heard about it.

As far as Dwarfs being the new DoC, I don't know. They are going to be powerful, but let's wait for the FAQ.