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Kroothawk wrote:If you are done with insulting a model range that has a huge fan followship after all those years and an active community (see e.g. http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/forum/ and their conversion rich fanzine http://www.chaos-dwarfs.com/webzine.php ), let me point out that their Babylon/Assur-themed background is quite rich and convincing. Have a look at the new GT Indy army book on Chaos Dwarfs ( http://www.filedropper.com/fdwarfsofchaos_1 ) to get an idea of the modelling potential, the background, the fan art and active enthusiams that this army still creates. Evil dwarfs are a common element of most Fantasy settings, including D&D and WoW, and are going back to Germanic mythology, e.g. the Nibelungen Saga. So they deserve their place in the Warhammer world like all other races. Good thing that Chaos Dwarfs still have fans among the GW design staff and that they will be one focus of the upcoming "Fantasy Forge World" model range.

I wouldn't say 2k people in a fan forum,almost half of whom have never posted anything,is a huge following. It pretty much looks to me like a few die hard posters and ton of people who popped in for casual interest,then quickly forgot about it. Which is pretty much the nature of these kinds of things. There's a few die hards that won't let go. As for the fluff,there's plenty of different armies hinted at in fluff...it doesn't mean they are viable for production,though.

I'm not going to hold it against someone for fighting for their army,but the people have spoken with their wallets already. If Chaos Dwarves were that cool,then Chaos Dwarf players should have done everything they could to attract players to that army while it was still in production. Maybe then,it wouldn't have been dropped,and there'd be no need for futile petitions. But,for the vast majority of us,it's counterproductive to sign a petition that on the off chance of success,will cut support to products we actually care about.

I told the same thing to people on warseer making a stupid online petition about the Tyranid FAQ and I'll say the same thing here. Online petitions don't do anything. No one reads them, and no one cares about them. If your serious about this start a letting writing campaign, otherwise stop wasting people's time.

Murdock129 wrote:And they have been revamped without becoming emo dwarfs, ever heard of the Hellcannon?



And the two pictures in the post above show how the BigHat Chaos Dwarfs can honestly look amazing with a little effort, there is a huge fanbase for these models, much bigger than any Squat or Praetorian fanbase I've ever seen and real potential

Yes i have you , they follow chaos, they man a cannon adorned with so many skulls it makes chaos space marine cry, they are dwarfs with BRAIDED BEARDS they're pretty emo if they didn't have enemies to throw into the hell cannon they'd probably stick their arms in. (note: i actually know emo's , some of which also call me pretty emo, i'm basing this on stereo-types since i don't know any emos that cut themselves but of the girls i know who arent emo half of them have had self harming issues).

of course this doesn't matter to gw, if they did reboot chaos dwarves, they also have to reboot every other army that they discontinued.

Again, instead of doing a petition actually BUY the models if you love the army so much

Army doesnt sell = army isnt support and over the long term = army is erased

Now if only they could get rid of dwarves my hatred would be sated!

(Disclaimer - If you are a short hairy drunk person with a scottish accent then I apologize to you for hating your fantasy equivalent)

..how about people who have no interest in the thread or the army in question then just don't post.

If you do post, then users are reminded to keep thier comments both on topic and polite, especially with regards to the other users. Seriously.

..best of luck with the petition, alas, I don't think it will have that much affect but kudos to you for trying.

Meh. I signed it just so I feel important and so I help out in some small way, but I could really care less about chaos dwarfs. They're a freakin' joke in most fantasy settings, and the pun of too many jokes. Just look at the D&D ones.

Kirasu wrote:Again, instead of doing a petition actually BUY the models if you love the army so much

Actually, this is not an option with Chaos Dwarfs, as the range is OOP (except the Bloodbowl team, which I bought recently )

Exactly what Kroothawk said, if I could buy the models I would (I am buying blood bowl miniatures and converting them)

If I could go to the site or the shops and get a unit of BigHats, Bull Centaurs, A Lammasu, Sneaky Gits or something else awesome like that I certainly would

But as said, if you don't like Chaos Dwarfs then don't post, if someone makes a topic about how they like something and are trying to get it back then coming on and telling them what they like is worthless and their being an idiot to try will only end in one thing, a flame war, and I don't know about you but I don't want to flame, or be flamed by, anyone

Kroothawk wrote:

Kirasu wrote:Again, instead of doing a petition actually BUY the models if you love the army so much

Actually, this is not an option with Chaos Dwarfs, as the range is OOP (except the Bloodbowl team, which I bought recently )

Gee, it's almost like they didn't sell well enough to begin with and were struck from the range...

It's a vicious circle. You didn't buy them then?
Too bad. You're outta luck until Forge World does them.

And even then, it's going to take a lot of sales volume for GW to sit up and take notice to bring them back.

The Krieg and Elysian ranges sell like candy, and they're nowhere near being made plastic.

You didn't buy them then? Too bad

I'm 17, when the Chaos Dwarfs were still on the shelves I was under ten, of course I didn't buy them then because I didn't know they existed, I'd have bought hundreds if I could have

Murdock129 wrote:

You didn't buy them then? Too bad

I'm 17, when the Chaos Dwarfs were still on the shelves I was under ten, of course I didn't buy them then because I didn't know they existed, I'd have bought hundreds if I could have

And yet, it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of the people who are always petitioning for things being brought back--knew they existed, etc and just never bought them.

Now, when they can't have them?
It's an injustice! It's CRIMINAL!

It's an ugly trend in WHFB for GW to delete armies. It is unfortunate as there were legitimate people who would collect those armies. I bet if this thread was about a more popular army like HE, people might be singing a different tune

Kudos to the OP with the petition and best of luck.

This is a "lolwut?" situation. Code blue, people! CODE BLUE!

What armies have been "deleted" from WHFB? None, outside of Chaos Dwarves--which haven't even been "deleted". They're just no longer supported in the form of an entire army of their own.

They still exist in the background, they still even have a small tabletop presence in the form of the Hellcannon being their "gift" to Archaon at the outset of the Storm of Chaos campaign.

And if you're referring to the campaign lists from Storm of Chaos...well, then I have news for you.

Those weren't, just like the 13th Black Crusade's lists, intended to be permanent lists for everyday, nonfriendly game usage.

Murdock129 wrote:Exactly what Kroothawk said, if I could buy the models I would (I am buying blood bowl miniatures and converting them)

If I could go to the site or the shops and get a unit of BigHats, Bull Centaurs, A Lammasu, Sneaky Gits or something else awesome like that I certainly would

But as said, if you don't like Chaos Dwarfs then don't post, if someone makes a topic about how they like something and are trying to get it back then coming on and telling them what they like is worthless and their being an idiot to try will only end in one thing, a flame war, and I don't know about you but I don't want to flame, or be flamed by, anyone

I would rather note in petitions threads for causes that I don't agree with that their cause is something that I don't agree with. Otherwise they start to believe that there is no opposition to the concept. Especially in an anonymous and absolutely repricussionless setting like an online poll (Where nothing could possibly come of it). On the internet I can't just rely on grinding nature of actual causework to pull people down. Gotta do it myself.

Kanluwen - you've made your point.

It might be time for you to move on from this thread now.

I had a buddy one time that got into chaos dwarfs almost to the week that they were shelved as a serious army.

He bent over backwards to get as many as he could, then the next month, his army sat to the wayside and you wouldn't have believed the sour grapes that he had.

At the time, the range was pretty bad. I didn't have the heart to tell him that they were a joke.


As to bringing them back, all I have to say is to just play Chaos. Then you can add in whatever you want to, and not worry aboput having a whole army get DX'd on a whim.

I hope they can fix the range, if they ever think of bringing them back.

Kanluwen wrote:And if you're referring to the campaign lists from Storm of Chaos...well, then I have news for you.

Those weren't, just like the 13th Black Crusade's lists, intended to be permanent lists for everyday, nonfriendly game usage.

Don't forget the ones from Armageddon.

Having said that, while that is implicitly true, I don't recall them coming out and saying anything like that at the time. I put together a Wulfen army during the 13th Black Crusade, and it does suck to find that GW can't be bothered to spend maybe 10 pages in the latest Space Wolves book to put the list in there as an appendix.

Can i ask or is it just me when i think of chaos dwarfs i think of Buff "The stuff" Bagwell from my childhood wrestling days. He too wore a wonderful silly hat.

To the op , good luck with your campaign always hard to see a army you collect, get shelved or just ignored (DE). But if the forge world rumour is true could be a blessing in disguise i.e. new sculpts even though they will be expensive.

I think the chaos dwarves might be cool however they would be cheese

twistinthunder wrote:
Yes i have you , they follow chaos, they man a cannon adorned with so many skulls it makes chaos space marine cry, they are dwarfs with BRAIDED BEARDS they're pretty emo if they didn't have enemies to throw into the hell cannon they'd probably stick their arms in. (note: i actually know emo's , some of which also call me pretty emo, i'm basing this on stereo-types since i don't know any emos that cut themselves but of the girls i know who arent emo half of them have had self harming issues).

of course this doesn't matter to gw, if they did reboot chaos dwarves, they also have to reboot every other army that they discontinued.

Not braided beards, that's normal Dwarves. Chaos Dwarves have permed beards.

For the uninformed : The braided beards (and bull centaurs) come from the Babylon/Assur theme mixed with the Baal-Moloch cult (Taurus) that is the foundation of the Dawi Zharr:
http://www.allempires.com/empires/assyria/assyria1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch

Signed! Chaos Dwarves FTW!

Yeah, they could do a great job with a babylonian force if they gave it a nice big new start and dropped the "dwarf" thing entirely. It's the worst part of the chaos dwarves.

ShumaGorath wrote:Chaos dwarves are stupid as a concept and were awful as a model range. Keep that gak away.

ShumaGorath wrote:I haven't even begun to insult them. You'll know when that happens. They certainly deserve it, but it has not yet begun.

let me point out that their Babylon/Assur-themed background is quite rich and convincing.

Indeed. Now lets make them not dwarves.

ShumaGorath wrote:I would rather note in petitions threads for causes that I don't agree with that their cause is something that I don't agree with. Otherwise they start to believe that there is no opposition to the concept. Especially in an anonymous and absolutely repricussionless setting like an online poll (Where nothing could possibly come of it). On the internet I can't just rely on grinding nature of actual causework to pull people down. Gotta do it myself.

ShumaGorath wrote:Yeah, they could do a great job with a babylonian force if they gave it a nice big new start and dropped the "dwarf" thing entirely. It's the worst part of the chaos dwarves.

reds8n wrote:..how about people who have no interest in the thread or the army in question then just don't post.
If you do post, then users are reminded to keep thier comments both on topic and polite, especially with regards to the other users. Seriously.

Alpharius wrote:Kanluwen - you've made your point.
It might be time for you to move on from this thread now.

@ShumaGorath: I think that you made your point. Twice. Three times. Four times already. Maybe it's time for you to reread the points the mod's made.

As a random observation, how many Ogre army fans were there before Ogre Kingdoms was released..?

How many people are currently aware of the Chaos Dwarfs and have shown an active interest in wanting to buy an army when they are done?

My point being that it is entirely pointless looking at the current fanbase to judge how successful an army would be, when they don't have an official army at all.

Seems to me like the commercial reasons for GW as a whole (be it the main studio or FW) are much better for CD than they ever were for OK.

Grimstonefire wrote:As a random observation, how many Ogre army fans were there before Ogre Kingdoms was released..?

How many people are currently aware of the Chaos Dwarfs and have shown an active interest in wanting to buy an army when they are done?

My point being that it is entirely pointless looking at the current fanbase to judge how successful an army would be, when they don't have an official army at all.

Seems to me like the commercial reasons for GW as a whole (be it the main studio or FW) are much better for CD than they ever were for OK.

Ogres filled a niche that there really had never been(a "large" army with a broad variety of styles in there) filled, and an archetype that exists in pretty much every Fantasy RPG(the dim-witted Ogres, banding together to cause havoc or hiring themselves out to the highest bidder).

"Chaos" Dwarves really fill no niche that isn't already filled. Ranged army? Been done. Dwarf army? Again, been done. Each army really has something that makes them stand apart from the rest. Be it the Wood Elves and their "Treesinging", High Elves and the Speed of Asuryan, Undead and their immune to Panic, etc etc.

I highly expect them to lose the more "Chaos" aspect, and become more akin to the Duergar of D&D(twisted and evil Dwarves that enslave everything they can, while experimenting with sorcery and corrupting Runecrafting into a darker and darker form).

@ShumaGorath: I think that you made your point. Twice. Three times. Four times already. Maybe it's time for you to reread the points the mod's made.

I'm that boulder you've got to push up that mountain. If you can't convince me theres no way in hell you're going to convince GW.

ShumaGorath wrote:

@ShumaGorath: I think that you made your point. Twice. Three times. Four times already. Maybe it's time for you to reread the points the mod's made.

I'm that boulder you've got to push up that mountain. If you can't convince me theres no way in hell you're going to convince GW.

Not often I say it, but I agree with Shuma.

The points about what new style they would bring to WFB is also valid.

I have rarely seen a CD army - that is 10 years playing in US & 10 years playing in UK. As with squats, for all the complaints about them going I never saw them (literally for squats).

ShumaGorath wrote:I'm that boulder you've got to push up that mountain. If you can't convince me theres no way in hell you're going to convince GW.

1.) GW likes Chaos Dwarfs, no need to convince them that CDs are a nice concept. And Forge World doing CDs is good enough for me (until then I play bighats counting as WoC or with the GT Indy army book).
2.) Please tell me what armies you like and play, so that I can be the boulder in each of your threads

Kanluwen wrote:This is a "lolwut?" situation. Code blue, people! CODE BLUE!

What armies have been "deleted" from WHFB? None, outside of Chaos Dwarves--which haven't even been "deleted". They're just no longer supported in the form of an entire army of their own.

They still exist in the background, they still even have a small tabletop presence in the form of the Hellcannon being their "gift" to Archaon at the outset of the Storm of Chaos campaign.

And if you're referring to the campaign lists from Storm of Chaos...well, then I have news for you.

Those weren't, just like the 13th Black Crusade's lists, intended to be permanent lists for everyday, nonfriendly game usage.

Individual ranges have been removed, like Fimir and zoats. But the other example that comes close to Chaos Dwarves is Dogs of War. They have had all their support cut realistically speaking. Yes you can get a small part of the range on their collectors range but the army has been axed in any meaningful sense.