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I don't get all the CD hate. I played them from the time they were introduced and wreaked unholy havoc with them on the battlefield. As an army, they have it all; cheap light infantry/cavalry, heavy infantry/cavalry, actually useful monsters and some of the best war machines in the game.

I'm not a tournament player so I could care less about opinions regarding the legality of the army in that sort of setting and have yet to meet someone that minded playing a friendly against my big hats using the Indy GT list....

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Individual ranges have been removed, like Fimir and zoats. But the other example that comes close to Chaos Dwarves is Dogs of War. They have had all their support cut realistically speaking. Yes you can get a small part of the range on their collectors range but the army has been axed in any meaningful sense.

Dogs of War had a pretty significant deathknell when they started removing the entry from the books. And if I'm going to be brutally honest here...
they needed to be gone. Too many people used Dogs of War as a crutch to cover up things wrong with their own tactics or armies.
If the dogs are to come back, I don't know about you but I'd rather see them as their own army. Even if it's a Tilean force, or a Border Prince's personal army of mercenaries.

Although, I would like each book to have an actual unit entry for the older Dogs of War regiments for them. Dark Elves need Mengil's Manhide Flayers.

If only because the models are friggin' gorgeous.


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agnosto wrote:I don't get all the CD hate. I played them from the time they were introduced and wreaked unholy havoc with them on the battlefield. As an army, they have it all; cheap light infantry/cavalry, heavy infantry/cavalry, actually useful monsters and some of the best war machines in the game.

I'm not a tournament player so I could care less about opinions regarding the legality of the army in that sort of setting and have yet to meet someone that minded playing a friendly against my big hats using the Indy GT list....

Nobody really "hates" Chaos Dwarves. They just don't, in the incarnation that we saw them in, fit in as well with WHFB. They're going to need a pretty hefty development cycle, along with a revamping of the entire range from scratch--which takes away development and sculpting time from armies that could use it(and are currently in-game).

Kanluwen wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:
Individual ranges have been removed, like Fimir and zoats. But the other example that comes close to Chaos Dwarves is Dogs of War. They have had all their support cut realistically speaking. Yes you can get a small part of the range on their collectors range but the army has been axed in any meaningful sense.

Dogs of War had a pretty significant deathknell when they started removing the entry from the books. And if I'm going to be brutally honest here...
they needed to be gone. Too many people used Dogs of War as a crutch to cover up things wrong with their own tactics or armies.
If the dogs are to come back, I don't know about you but I'd rather see them as their own army. Even if it's a Tilean force, or a Border Prince's personal army of mercenaries.

Although, I would like each book to have an actual unit entry for the older Dogs of War regiments for them. Dark Elves need Mengil's Manhide Flayers.

If only because the models are friggin' gorgeous.

I've grown to prefer them as a stand alone army. I think they work better with some armies than others, Empire would be more likely to use them than most as you can imagine many Empire armies being a Duke with his own income anyway. Having Khemri using Bronzino's Galloper Guns or the Giants of Albion doesn't sit right at all. I wish they'd make a few more available through the website though, I'd like Azarnil for a start. Have you seen what he sells for on eBay?!!


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Kanluwen wrote:Nobody really "hates" Chaos Dwarves. They just don't, in the incarnation that we saw them in, fit in as well with WHFB. They're going to need a pretty hefty development cycle, along with a revamping of the entire range from scratch--which takes away development and sculpting time from armies that could use it(and are currently in-game).

I'm a big Chaos Dwarves fan but it has to be remembered the never had a true army book. They only had a "white dwarf presents" which isn't really the same thing. They've never been given full support at any time.

I think the reason you don't see a lot of them available is the molds are busted or the sculptors may have left.

Plus, a lot of the models themselves are almost as old as my youngest brother(14).

Kanluwen wrote:

Plus, a lot of the models themselves are almost as old as my youngest brother(14).

Sounds about right, but I love my big hats.

Incidentally, they have more fluff than some 40k armies that are still in production *cough* dark eldar *cough*

I like how they have their own play style that's not quite dwarf and not quite chaos daemons but with elements of both.

I harbor no doubts that GW will ever bring them back; however, I'll continue to play them as long as I am able to find opponents. Heck, I have enough models, I don't know what else to do with them.

agnosto wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Plus, a lot of the models themselves are almost as old as my youngest brother(14).

Sounds about right, but I love my big hats.

That was actually in reference to Dogs of War.

I didn't like the Babylonian/Russian Chaos Dwarves, I preferred the original Chaos Dwarves which were just Chaos Warriors on a Dwarven scale. But that was on an RPG scale not full blown armies. I can see how people think that Warhammer could use some evil Dwarves because we have evil men and elves but in my mind that conflicts with the Skaven as a subterranean race with war machines. If they did come back I would prefer to see them as conversion kits along the lines of Renegade IG for 40k.

Bloodwin wrote:I didn't like the Babylonian/Russian Chaos Dwarves, I preferred the original Chaos Dwarves which were just Chaos Warriors on a Dwarven scale. But that was on an RPG scale not full blown armies. I can see how people think that Warhammer could use some evil Dwarves because we have evil men and elves but in my mind that conflicts with the Skaven as a subterranean race with war machines. If they did come back I would prefer to see them as conversion kits along the lines of Renegade IG for 40k.

Chaos dwarfs don't live underground. They live in massive cities with a ziggurat temple at the center.

As a random point of conversation, from snippets I heard over the years from a trusted source it seems that development of the Chaos Dwarfs never really stopped since a year or so before SoC. It just slowed right down, especially from model production.

Remember that GW makes concept models of things that are many years away from release.

So to say it would be years from now may not entirely accurate, as they probably have a few models already finished somewhere, and all they need is a few minis to get people started.

I am feeling quite confident that by this time next year I will be holding a new CD model in my hand (07/07/10). Someone can sig that if they want.

Kanluwen wrote:I think the reason you don't see a lot of them available is the molds are busted or the sculptors may have left.
Plus, a lot of the models themselves are almost as old as my youngest brother(14).

Yes, must refer to DoW, because Bighat Chaos Dwarfs are all sculpted by Alan Perry still working for GW and they are 16 years old

If you want chaos dwarfs so badly why not get some skill and convert your own, playing them as chaos warriors. Hell, you could convert metal beasts to act as demons. Its really simple, convert your own using more than half GW stuff and play them as the next similar army, either Chaos or regular dwarfs. Also, I think GW should make the megarachnids from one of the Horus heresy books, that would be bloody awesome.

I use old Chaos Dwarf models in my Chaos Warriors army as WoC with great weapons. Just put them on 25mm bases. As an army they were pretty cool, and to my knowledge GW has never lost money on any Fantasy or 40k army. I'm sure we'll be seeing their return eventually, and I'm really looking forward to their possible Forge World release.

Kroothawk wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:I'm that boulder you've got to push up that mountain. If you can't convince me theres no way in hell you're going to convince GW.

1.) GW likes Chaos Dwarfs, no need to convince them that CDs are a nice concept. And Forge World doing CDs is good enough for me (until then I play bighats counting as WoC or with the GT Indy army book).

So much that they canceled them and have given them the barest lip service in fluff and absolutely no models in almost a decade.

2.) Please tell me what armies you like and play, so that I can be the boulder in each of your threads

You can try, but you're going to have a hard time. The armies I have played are:

Orks
Space Marines
Tyranids
Chos

Good luck attempting to boulder those races, they comprise 80% of games workshops sales.

I like the Chaos Dwarves. They were silly, but in the warm-fuzzy olde school Games-Workshop way, not in the recent cold, heartless, marketting-induced trying hard to impress angry 13 year olds kind of way. I liked their Psuedo-Babylonian curled beards and their ridiculous giant hats. I liked their odd fascination with cattle. But best of all I liked their patron deity, Hashut.

First of all, that's just an awesome name for a deity. Second, I find an evil deity of smoke, darkness, slavery and corruption far more believable than the standard 4 great powers of Chaos.

I would love to see CDs come back, I just think online petitions are about the least convincing way to do so.

Mewiththeface wrote:If you want chaos dwarfs so badly why not get some skill and convert your own, playing them as chaos warriors. Hell, you could convert metal beasts to act as demons.

Personally I own all old bighat models I want and play them with WoC rules, with non-GW models filling the gaps.
But you should really have a look at www.chaos-dwarfs.com including the fanzine "Word of Hashut": Conversions are the biggest fun and a basic skill for us.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:2.) Please tell me what armies you like and play, so that I can be the boulder in each of your threads

You can try, but you're going to have a hard time. The armies I have played are:

Orks
Space Marines
Tyranids
Chos

Good luck attempting to boulder those races, they comprise 80% of games workshops sales.

That explains a lot. Should have guessed that the biggest opponent to a small Fantasy release is a pure mainstream 40k player

ShumaGorath wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:I'm that boulder you've got to push up that mountain. If you can't convince me theres no way in hell you're going to convince GW.

1.) GW likes Chaos Dwarfs, no need to convince them that CDs are a nice concept. And Forge World doing CDs is good enough for me (until then I play bighats counting as WoC or with the GT Indy army book).

So much that they canceled them and have given them the barest lip service in fluff and absolutely no models in almost a decade.

2.) Please tell me what armies you like and play, so that I can be the boulder in each of your threads

You can try, but you're going to have a hard time. The armies I have played are:

Orks
Space Marines
Tyranids
Chos

Good luck attempting to boulder those races, they comprise 80% of games workshops sales.

Oooh when did they release codex chos I want to play that army I like the bad stuntys they fill a niche that is unique to the game dwarf's using magic.

Clever, exploiting a typo,very mature. Now no matter your opinion on Chaos Dwarfs the cold-hearted fact is that GW isn't going to listen so it is useless.

Much like the 3rd edition Dark Eldar I never liked the chaos dwarf models. That is until I saw the hell cannon crew. Now if they really do a CD army like the hell cannon they would probably sell like hotcakes.

Much like what I expect the new dark eldar to do.
GG

Kroothawk wrote:

Mewiththeface wrote:If you want chaos dwarfs so badly why not get some skill and convert your own, playing them as chaos warriors. Hell, you could convert metal beasts to act as demons.

Personally I own all old bighat models I want and play them with WoC rules, with non-GW models filling the gaps.
But you should really have a look at www.chaos-dwarfs.com including the fanzine "Word of Hashut": Conversions are the biggest fun and a basic skill for us.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:2.) Please tell me what armies you like and play, so that I can be the boulder in each of your threads

You can try, but you're going to have a hard time. The armies I have played are:

Orks
Space Marines
Tyranids
Chos

Good luck attempting to boulder those races, they comprise 80% of games workshops sales.

That explains a lot. Should have guessed that the biggest opponent to a small Fantasy release is a pure mainstream 40k player

I'm not sure of you're reasoning behind saying it would be a small fantasy release... Oh, they're dwarves. They're short.

Thats actually pretty funny.