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While it is obviously their job to sell things, a lot of the time they don't seem to realise the line exists. I'd be happy to get a soft push as you describe Shrike - but if I say "no thanks" or "I just want to browse" or "I'm only after X item", I don't want to be followed round for the next 10 minutes being told I have to buy some LotR rubbish, or 8 units from different armies that I don't play.

And when you eventually shake them off and are either ready to make your purchases (in my case usually a single pot of paint or wash) or want to ask a question about something, there is no one around at the til because they are all off badgering other people. I've had to almost physically drag someone to the til before in order to pay for something. And even then they still tried to sell me a whole bunch of stuff I didn't want or need.

I'm always (I like to think) polite to the staff in there, but I don't go in there regularly enough to be known (though the manager will sometimes recognise me as I usually encounter him the most when I go in), which means that every time I go in I am considered a new mark, which is annoying

"You play Guard? I think you SHOULD play Orks. Go on, go on, go on, your army can't compare to the awesomeness of the Orks."

I support my FLGS now, who aren't as pushy, though they do seem to have developed a fetish for dipping everything, for better or for worse.

Cadichan Support wrote:Also, I found out that if you melt all the plastic in a battleforce you get a lump that is about 2 litres. That lump is worth roughly idk, like $9 AUS. i Suppose 30$ for processing and $40 for delivery to nearest GW.
All together that's 79$ and a battleforce is 155$!!! 76$ profit!!! What is this !!!

Talk about global warming, and the amount of people buying models every day across the globe, and that is one hell of a waste. If anyone knows the average amount of plastic models bought over a certain period, that should be enough to prove my point. Still these prices are an outrage. Look, i want a box full of foam to store my minis in. £60. Yeah, really good in terms on money saving in a just recently shattered economy . Enough money to fill up an Audi R8, or just a small box of foam. get real!

And yes, as shrike and others have said, there are the things that we don't even have to think twice about that we need or want to get in life, bread, eggs, staples, fish etc. But when you move on to the bigger stuff, a whole new minis army or similar as we are discussing, a car, maybe even a home, this stuff always requires more thought. And the thing is, if GW just said welcome to the store do you need any help, understanding this simple matter, and not bug no one about buying 50 tubs of grass the customer wasn't even planning to get, and lower their prices by around 25% permenantly, they could be saving themselves a huge fortune. This could bring thousands of new and bring back previously disgraced customers to their stores, and not have this 'if you don't sell thousands of pounds/dollars/whatever of stock, you're sacked, and buy this stuff you don't even want' attitude. Satisfied customers, satisfied GW. Everybody's happy! or at least they would be...


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G: Games
W: Workshop
A: Are
R: Rubbish (at sales, and customer support)

GWAR, he he!

To be honest overly pushy salespeople are bad at their job if they're so blatantly obvious and in your face. Theres one or two GW's I go to from time to time and have no problem with being made a hard sale as the staff tend to know me and what I have and only recommend what they might think will interest me. Of course looking grumpy all the time helps put the ones that are pushy off! A good salesperson wont be "BUY THIS ITS COOL!". The ones that really do their job well are the ones that make you feel its your decision and before you realize it you've just bought a new army.

I do wish we had FLGS of any description though here :(

Cadichan Support wrote:I am kind of disgusted that that poor guy got fired for failing to sell you a battleforce. AT LEAST HE TRIED!!! The thing GW do not understand is before you make a purchase you have to make a decision. Am i going to start collecting? extending? for me this process takes time, its not something you can do in 5 seconds. I understand if its something little like paints or green stuff. But a Battleforce is ridiculous.

Also, I found out that if you melt all the plastic in a battleforce you get a lump that is about 2 litres. That lump is worth roughly idk, like $9 AUS. i Suppose 30$ for processing and $40 for delivery to nearest GW.
All together that's 79$ and a battleforce is 155$!!! 76$ profit!!! What is this !!!

Yeah, I've heard that the GW staff are all volunteers these days, and malls are letting GW have stores rent-free...

*sigh*

At the end of the day, GW need to make a certain percentage profit from a certain turnover. They are not in it to break even and just about pay their staff. Now, ideally they would not be a publicly listed company, but they are. That means they have to satisfy their investors. If investors don't get the return they are looking for, they take their money elsewhere. Believe me, there are lots of better shares to invest in than GW anyway...

I hate the upselling.
My Mrs won't go there now because of this hassling (and the smell...).
I am not bothered anywhere else like I am in GW, nowhere near.
I, like mentioned above, am after a single paint normally and will have to deflect 5 mins of hard sell.
I am known (a bit) in my local, I have entered (and *cough* won) a few painting compos etc, and they know it doesn't work on me. But still they try.
After this initial spike of bother I can normally chat away happily and even begin to relax and slightly enjoy myself, but it is a mental factor in deciding whether to go there or not.
I'm older and bitter and twisted so I can put up with this crap, but the more socially vunerable must find it very hard to deal with.

Jimsolo wrote:Big P....if you aren't buying the 'overpriced' GW products, and are in fact, playing other games, then why go into the GW store? Not trying to be rude, I seriously don't get it.

.

Where did I say they were overpriced?

So you are not allowed to go in a GW store unless you buy their products? Thats a bit stupid isnt? How would you convert browsers to purchasers?


Just for your record, I do play some GW games, I do occasionally buy stuff (usually from Maelstrom but I still like to buy stuff in a store for the 'instant' hit) and there are few places to buy GW stuff where I live.

I dont even mind the staff, just when I say 'No', it means 'no thanks, now leave me alone' not start spouting at me about things covered in skullz. I resent being talked to by a man who acts like a kid hyped on sugar.

I will never understand why it is so difficult for them to vary their sales pitch dependant on the customer type. I dont want to be talked at like Im a 14 year old 40K Fan Boy, yet they seem unable to operate at anything other than the one mode.

If they did, I may well stay longer, chat and buy more. As it is, a quick dive in, grab what I want, and run out again is my order of the day.

Then again... I doubt I would. My GW gaming is with old games, Mordheim & Necromunda & Rogue Trader, not the travesty that is 40K or the Umpteenth Ed of WFB... So Im probably not their target audience anyways.

Still like looking at their nicely painted models though... Can I do that if Im not buying anything?

The biggest problem with the "pushy salespeople" that GW have is that, for the most part, they're unsocialized teenagers/young adults working for minimum wage being told that the sale is the bottom line--and to top it off, with large amounts of people who seem to be unsocialized heathens unable to deal with any amount of human contact.

meh after spending the last two weeks shopping for a new car... GW employees are tame in comparison...

I don't mind targetted suggestive selling.

"If you play templar, you might want another Black Templar upgrade set."

"Oh, you're painting orcs? Do you have enough devlan mud or Badab Black wash?"

I do mind someone following me around and continuing to try to up-sell me after I have made myself clear on what I am looking for.

Yeah, actually went into a GW for the first time in a while a few days ago. Am traveling in Houston, and brought minis with me to work on. Needed some stuff, and discovered there was a GW just a few blocks from the apartments.

Had a great experience. The dude working there (one man outfit), Charlie, was really cool. Once he found out I have been at this a while, he understood that hardsell was not the way to go. So we just chatted for a bit, I observed some games, bought my crap and left. Needed some more Thrakka Green a few days later and went back. I was suprised, pleasantly. For anyone in Houston, its the store in the 11000's on Westheimer.

Went by Asgard Games as well, had similar experiences. Could recommend that place very easily.

As one person stated, they just like painting their nicely painted miniatures. On my last jaunt to a GW I was accompained by my girlfriend, who has painted a few of these minis simply for fun.

Not to be rude, but my last journey to GW left me disappointed with the quality of their painted minis. Alot of their stuff was left unpainted, which really stood out. The other half were painted to a simple and clean standard. Even my girlfriend, who might as well know nothing about the hobby, was disapointed to the quality of work in the store miniatures.

They did have some nicer models on their back wall, but it still left me wanting more. When the store was located in our actual mall, they had beautiful titans displayed everywhere. Now, just a few marines fighting some bugs.

Bad sales man are really annoying , just like those door to door sales man.

Imagine doors to door sales man without any good Sales Skills , thats what the amateur red shirts are like.

unsocialized heathens unable to deal with any amount of human contact

Makes me laugh. Everything must be our fault because mighty GW must be flawless.

I remember one friend told me a story about a year ago, he went into a GW just to browse and one of the sales dudes asked him what army he played. He replied mostly eldar, and the guy went about trying to sell him some unit or another (I think it was Fire Dragons). My friend replied "No, I already have 40 of those models, more than I can use in a game, I'm actually looking to get rid of some as I don't use more than 20 of them at a time" to which the clerk responds "If you buy some more of them they're great in apocalypse!!!"

chaos0xomega wrote:I remember one friend told me a story about a year ago, he went into a GW just to browse and one of the sales dudes asked him what army he played. He replied mostly eldar, and the guy went about trying to sell him some unit or another (I think it was Fire Dragons). My friend replied "No, I already have 40 of those models, more than I can use in a game, I'm actually looking to get rid of some as I don't use more than 20 of them at a time" to which the clerk responds "If you buy some more of them they're great in apocalypse!!!"

Fail.

Probaly only good for watching them get stomped on by all the big stuff in such a massive game.

It is important to note that I am supposed to suggest items to sell at work, but rarely do. I don't need to sell someone more than what they need, what I have to do is be friendly and try my hardest to get that customer to come back.

Social skills are a must for a job like that. If nobody wants to come back, then your store will lose much more than that expenive item you pushed for and sold by the skin of your teeth.

I have yet to hear any upselling at my local GW. The closest I've ever heard is the generally ask people if they have seen new release 'X,' and they never ask in a way that sounds like they are trying to sell it, but more in a way to inform you about it or to start a conversation about it.

Oh, and if you buy something, they usually ask if you are stocked up on everything you need to build/paint it.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:I have yet to hear any upselling at my local GW. The closest I've ever heard is the generally ask people if they have seen new release 'X,' and they never ask in a way that sounds like they are trying to sell it, but more in a way to inform you about it or to start a conversation about it.

Oh, and if you buy something, they usually ask if you are stocked up on everything you need to build/paint it.

Its usually the ones that replaces their staff like once every 3 months that upsells.
Sounds like the store you visit are stable and experienced.

The manager (possibly former manager) at my normal GW is awful like this. Go in for the apocalypse book for a read, tries to get me to buy first a hellhound, then a valkyrie, then finally a baneblade. I just let him *rant* then bought my book.

His favourite trick right now is. "Have you seen the new release of X, I'm planning on getting them myself as my next army."

So far, he's said that to me about Beastmen, Death Korps (when I bought Vraks), Orks (when the deff dread came out) and at Christmas, when I got the paint set he was "oh I was just planning on getting that but you got the last one."

At my gaming club, my mate had the same complaint, went in to buy the newer Tau codex for his already established Tau army, the guy tried to get him to buy the battleforce.

It's just infuriating.

You must not have ever worked in retailing.

It's called establishing a rapport with the customer. If they know that you use/have an interest in that product, they feel more comfortable buying it.

You wouldn't buy a Porsche from a guy driving a Jeep, would you?

Lexx wrote:The ones that really do their job well are the ones that make you feel its your decision and before you realize it you've just bought a new army.

Are these the ones with hypnotic minds and chloroform?

kronk wrote:I don't mind targetted suggestive selling.

"If you play templar, you might want another Black Templar upgrade set."

"Oh, you're painting orcs? Do you have enough devlan mud or Badab Black wash?"

I do mind someone following me around and continuing to try to up-sell me after I have made myself clear on what I am looking for.

I can agree with this too, but as others have said, I don't want some off-planet, pointless solution from nowhere, like:
If your're starting CSM, why not buy some Skaven Screaming Bells. Also check out this amazing Tau Pirahn... blah blah blah etc.

you get the idea.

I bet some of the GWs around are desperate to save their margin, and ergo force their employees to push their products onto people with abandon just to keep their stores alive.

That happens to me all the time. Last time I went into games workshop to go buy paint and the guy is like you want to but this super special wash brush?!?!?!??! I had to tell the guy like 5 times I didn't want to buy the brush.

FYI GW staff are not told to aggressively push sales, that is the bad training of inexperienced new managers and or staff members that are not confident with a basic conversation, having worked in Gw for 3 years i NEVER pushed a sale, nor "aggressively" pushed a sale. and had highest sales rates out of the staff & manager, infact the manager barely sold a treat but engaged in conversation,


They are trained to engage in conversation and simply ask questions about someones hobby, and experiences and what they like or dislike and suggest ways in which one can enhance problem areas they mention, rule book sales are primarily pushed on launch days by launch parties to whch customers are signed up for and are aware of, the problem is staff mostly new misconceive the oders of the boss about engaging the customer and KPI requirement to mean, push a sale instantly to get marks! which isnt the case,

what you guys need to realise is that the guys in GW are although staff in GW, are also probably as knowledgable as you, and sometimes not used to engaging a customer on any 1000 topics and takes a long time and unique person to get it at the get go.





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PS GW works off a 10 commandment system, to which if i recall, no.6 or so was, promote the product, the rest were based on courtesy, behaviour, conversation and persona.

I've never actually been pushed to buy something, and by the sounds of it, im quite lucky. The guy in my store will happily let me buy what i came for, and that's it.

He does engage in conversation and has often asked me how my armies are coming along etc but never pushes. He informs me about the latest releases if they apply to me, but it's often what i came in for anyway.

The worst thing he's done was "Ah" he says as i put my purchase on the counter, "good choice, these guys i great, personally though i prefer to have two units though, its a lot better i find"
I tld him that it was my second of it and he said "good" and that was it.

Woo, my Games Workshop!

Haven't been to any GW stores yet, but at most FLGS the staff dont push you to buy, but I found a way to deal with staff members trying to sell you something you dont want, once one staff member was trying to get me to buy a 65$ Land Raider. Instead of buying that I bought some Scouts for only 25$ and then he stopped pushing me to buy and let me browse the store. Im only 13 so i do get pushed alot.

avantgarde wrote:I would just tell them regardless of what they're trying to sell me that I already have three of it.

"Hey have you seen the new 8th rulebook?!?"
"Yeah dude I already bought three."

I will try this next time I go in.

However, in the GW I went to (before it got turned into an independent games seller, but with all the warhammer stuff) it would go like this
Hi welcome to games workshop, (rest of gretting w/e)
>I'm fine thanks
Need help finding anything?
>No thanks, I'm just looking
Alright, ask if you need help

For you guys, just ask about anything and have 'em point it out. Randomly be like, oh wait, yes, I do need help. Where is the...
And they point it out and may leave you alone, if its an expensive thing.

When i go into GW the guys in there are generally friendly and talk to you about your army and what they think you might need then they basically leave you alone to get on what with what youre doing

Can't vouch for GW, but the LGSs are cool. The worst I got was one time walking to the register with a shadowsword and the guy jokingly saying, "Ya know, you'll want at least another one of those in case it gets blown up first round...."

The important thing is, everyone knows it's a joke.

camboyaz wrote:Haven't been to any GW stores yet, but at most FLGS the staff dont push you to buy, but I found a way to deal with staff members trying to sell you something you dont want, once one staff member was trying to get me to buy a 65$ Land Raider. Instead of buying that I bought some Scouts for only 25$ and then he stopped pushing me to buy and let me browse the store. Im only 13 so i do get pushed alot.

Well, you are the main target audience sadly, but in a few years..

I've never had this problem, thankfully. The guys at the local GW seem fine with an oldbie coming in and finding out for themselves what new stuff has come out in their absence.

Kanluwen wrote:You must not have ever worked in retailing.

It's called establishing a rapport with the customer.

WordWeb wrote:Rapport (noun)
A relationship of mutual understanding or trust and agreement between people.

Showing contempt for a customer by lying to their face and expecting them to fall for it is a poor method of establishing a rapport.