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Playing as orks is fun enough i think even if im not winning, its just fun watching stupid things happening like twice ive blown up my own trucks with bomb squigs and large blasts scatering on my own men.

Chaos terminators can't get FNP. They get T5, but only the plague marines (and probably Typhus) get FNP.

You should read your opponent's codexes, (and your own - not knowing Gaz has eternal warrior is pretty bad when you are using him), knowlegde is really power in warhammer. If you know what your opponents can and cannot do with their units, you know which units to hit with the correct units of your own. Normal orks vs plague marines = fail, normal orks vs lots of SW's with an IC = fail. Use the correct tools for the job.

Your list seems fine, not totally optimized, but good. I think the problem lies in a lack of knowlegde and in the tactics.



Also, don't just play KP's, try some objective missions too.

Orks ares still VERY competitive...take a look around at tourney results, and you will see Orks frequently among the top.

Orks have a steeper learning curve than marines. Marines are the ideal beginner's army after all.

freddieyu1 wrote:Orks have a steeper learning curve than marines. Marines are the ideal beginner's army after all.

Here here! Seen the old 3rd edition starter Boxset? Space Marine tactical squad + Land Speeder Vs. 20 Dark Eldar warriors with 2 splinter cannons, the guide book that came with it pretty much said outright that the Dark Eldar have no chance of winning.

and the reason Orks have a steeper curve then SMs is because most people play SMs first


I played SMs first and had the typical learning curve.

then i started Orks because i liked the fluff.


because i played them from a fluff standpoint i actually won my first few games.


Play Orks! Play Fluffy

txscotch12 wrote: I know I want to avoid anything thats too random, that is far too frustrating for me.

Orks may not be the army for you.

I find the most happy ork players long term are those that embrace orks warts and all. That is they have as much fun losing as winning just because they get to enact all kinds of silly Greenskin violence and shenanigans along the way regardless.

IF you want serious and dependable play just about anythign EXCEPT Orks...

Would also second the more recent comments above.

Orks are for fun. That's really important to how they play. If you want to take your gaming seriously (and people do), then orks will annoy you. They are designed to look funny, with oversized armour, bikes with multiple machine guns, and massive four-armed battle robots. They are the light relief for people that like gaming, but are also interested in having a laugh.

So, if you view yourself as a serious gamer, wanting to know whether your small elite band of heroes could defend the last of humanity from the ravages of evil aliens, you'll get annoyed with orks.

Conversely, if your idea of a fun game is seeing whether you can get a couple of hundred angry greenskins across a table before they get blown up, whilst your trukks fall to pieces, your looted wagon runs headlong into an enemy tank, and your massed combined firing does little more than wound a scout, you'll have a good time. The orks are more about enjoying the random and entertaining aspect of the game.

And if you are this kind of gamer, then winning with orks against a po-faced opponent is all the more entertaining. Imagine casting zogwort's curse on your enemy's Rogal Dorn, or hitting a terminator squad with 10 AP2 flash gitz shots. Imagine Ghazgkhull pulling the arms off Bjorn the Fell Handed and beating him to a pulp with them. It's all the more entertaining to win with a bunch of greenskinned ill-disciplined self-destructive nutters.



My medication? How kind.

doctorludo wrote:Would also second the more recent comments above.

Orks are for fun. That's really important to how they play. If you want to take your gaming seriously (and people do), then orks will annoy you. They are designed to look funny, with oversized armour, bikes with multiple machine guns, and massive four-armed battle robots. They are the light relief for people that like gaming, but are also interested in having a laugh.

So, if you view yourself as a serious gamer, wanting to know whether your small elite band of heroes could defend the last of humanity from the ravages of evil aliens, you'll get annoyed with orks.

Conversely, if your idea of a fun game is seeing whether you can get a couple of hundred angry greenskins across a table before they get blown up, whilst your trukks fall to pieces, your looted wagon runs headlong into an enemy tank, and your massed combined firing does little more than wound a scout, you'll have a good time. The orks are more about enjoying the random and entertaining aspect of the game.

And if you are this kind of gamer, then winning with orks against a po-faced opponent is all the more entertaining. Imagine casting zogwort's curse on your enemy's Rogal Dorn, or hitting a terminator squad with 10 AP2 flash gitz shots. Imagine Ghazgkhull pulling the arms off Bjorn the Fell Handed and beating him to a pulp with them. It's all the more entertaining to win with a bunch of greenskinned ill-disciplined self-destructive nutters.



My medication? How kind.

This

except you forgot all the choppy and stabby bits

The above is BS. Orks are competitive, sure they have some "funny" units, but they have plenty of good units, and can be played just as "seriously" as any other army. Look at dash or redbeard, both play orks with much success.

They however play to a theme and have a darn good orky time of it too.

doctorludo wrote:Would also second the more recent comments above.

Orks are for fun. That's really important to how they play. If you want to take your gaming seriously (and people do), then orks will annoy you. They are designed to look funny, with oversized armour, bikes with multiple machine guns, and massive four-armed battle robots. They are the light relief for people that like gaming, but are also interested in having a laugh.

So, if you view yourself as a serious gamer, wanting to know whether your small elite band of heroes could defend the last of humanity from the ravages of evil aliens, you'll get annoyed with orks.

Conversely, if your idea of a fun game is seeing whether you can get a couple of hundred angry greenskins across a table before they get blown up, whilst your trukks fall to pieces, your looted wagon runs headlong into an enemy tank, and your massed combined firing does little more than wound a scout, you'll have a good time. The orks are more about enjoying the random and entertaining aspect of the game.

And if you are this kind of gamer, then winning with orks against a po-faced opponent is all the more entertaining. Imagine casting zogwort's curse on your enemy's Rogal Dorn, or hitting a terminator squad with 10 AP2 flash gitz shots. Imagine Ghazgkhull pulling the arms off Bjorn the Fell Handed and beating him to a pulp with them. It's all the more entertaining to win with a bunch of greenskinned ill-disciplined self-destructive nutters.



My medication? How kind.

That isn't to say that orks can't win or be competitive. They can be, in the ways that Dash of Pepper Illustrated, but playing Orks is best accomplished if youfirst go into the affair with a proppa Ork mindset.

Many people play various armies because they are powerful, popular, easy to win with, etc., etc.

Real Ork players play Orks because no other army feels right or makes proppa Orkish sense.

Embrace the Waaagh and learn to let go a bit. The rest will fall into place...

CT GAMER wrote:
playing Orks is best accomplished if youfirst go into the affair with a proppa Ork mindset.

This.

Every game I start with Orks is "HURT! KILL! MAIM! WAAAUGH!" I don't care what the mission is, or what the objectives are, or where I'm supposed to be on the field.....I move as fast as possible directly at the enemy screaming at the top of my lungs and beat their faces in.

If that doesn't send them running off the table, then I pull out -Da Orkish kunnin'- to figure out how to salvage the game.

I flippin' HATE Orks as a Space Marine player. So many bodies on the field, and always some gimmick to get them into my ranks by Turn 2, be it a Waaaagh, 18" jump packs, or Fast Open-topped Vehicles. Seriously annoying.

txscotch12 wrote:First, let me say thx for the positive encourgement its nice to know that im not wasting my time with a "fun" but uncompetive codex. Seeing as how the general consensus is get more games in thats what i'll do
ok so the two lists at my gw store that prompted me to post this are essentially like this:
- NURGLE squads of 10 with 5 toughness and feel no pain ( these eat my 20 man squads np and firing shootas is a less then fun exercise in futility) plus a 5 man terminator squad with Typhus with up to 11 attacks who is re-rolling hits and wounds going at initative 5 and using a force weapon which if it wounds Ghaz insta kills him, they also are toughness 5 with feel no pain (this unit has eaten a 30man squad with Ghaz in it before I got a chance to attack after I charged him) and lastly every unit he has has grenades that disallow the extra attacks from charging so Ghaz has 5 and my sluugga 3 or shootas 2

Someone already mentioned it, but the force weapon can't insta-kill Ghaz'gul. You should still be at least breaking even against the 10-man Plague Marine squad on the charge simply by weight of numbers. The Terminators don't have FNP, just T5. Try multicharging, instead of throwing one unit up against one of his units.

- SPACE WOLVES not quit sure what his death star unit is but he brings 2 Land raiders and inside one of them he has a Named IC plus a wolf priest and a cubic but ton of little guys essentially they get to counter charge and roll a shoe box of dice that makes me jealous before i can swing, these are all at a higher initative also and all power weapons so again the charging unit is dead. i have tried shooting at them before after they ate a unit but the squad is so large that the IC and priest dont die before they get in range to eat some else. that plus the best advice i can find for dealing with land raiders as orks is IGNORE them. so the death star unit has free run of the board

That's got to be Ragnar Blackmane, a Wolf Priest, and a whole bunch of Blood Claws or a Wolf Guard in that Land Raider. It is brutal if it gets the charge, or if you try to engage it in melee. Yes, it's a Death Star, but it should be taking up a quarter to a third of his army points. Have you tried ramming it with Deffrollas? Ever charged the Raider with the Nob Bikers' Klaws? The sheer volume of attacks can often damage the Raider, since all your PK attacks are at S9. The Ragnar Death Star unit is hamstrung once it loses its ride. You also have to remember that it takes a Leadership test to activate Counter Attack, which Space Wolves fail a quarter of the time with that Ld8.

Orks are fine, they just require different tactics than most other armies (i.e., not like Space Marines and their 20 variants). Most ork tactics boil down to swamping the enemy: swamping them with masses of boyz, masses of dreads, masses of gunshots, masses of power klaws, masses of rokkits, and so on. It is a sledgehammer army, a nuke them from orbit army; there is nothing surgical about it. Grab 100 dice and go.

So, whenever you are having issues with a particular army, figure out how to throw numbers at it. Nasty stuff will still die if you throw enough boyz or shots at the problem. The only real limit of the orks is an inability to deal with AV13/14 at range reliably, but that is solved with maneuver and enough power klaws or deff rollas.

The only advice I give on ork lists is two-fold: one, pick a theme you like and stay with it; and two, go big or go home. Orks work best when they're single-minded. Build up your central strategy of overwhelming force and diversify with support specialists enough to threaten those specialty targets. You mix and match in a battleforce style army too much with orks and you will get your ass handed to you.

This is great advice from everyone. I'm going to start using my orks again. I guess I just lost the Proppa Ork mindset....

First, thanks to every1 who has responded to this thread, really didnt expect this many replies.
Second, I took everyones advice and built a theme list. I went back to basics and built a Kan Wall.

HQ
2 x Big Mek KFF, PK

TROOP
3 X 30 Shootas with 3 X RL each NOB PK, Kombi scorcha
2 X 19 Gretchin with Runtherder
2X Deffdread 2CCWs

ELITE
2 x 8 Lootas
HEAVY
3 x 3 Killa Kans (2 Grotzookas 1 RL)
pretty sure that right its late if points are off its suppossed to be 1850.

Have played 3 games with this list so far and won two and lost (which was actually a win but I degress). Having gotten soundly beaten by the Ragnar Deathstar army of doom so often I asked the Space Wolf player if we could switch armies. We did. So being arrogant that the ragnar would eat everyone on the board like Ive seen so many times before i assaulted the 3 Kan squads and 2 Dreads with just the deathstar squad. Well quess what with str 6 and 7 attacks not all those died. when he counterassaulted with another unit of 30 boys ragnars squad went poof, he failed his leadership and ran off the table. technically I lost but I wasnt trying to and it sure felt good watchin my boyz do their work. The other two games i played i beat a nilla drop list soundly a 30 man squad and a killa kan unit had Pedro for lunch. Lastly i played a different list verses a salamander list with 3 battlewagons 15 burnas and 40 shootas. i rightly got my ass handed to me by all his melta guns and flame templates. i still want to figure out a KOS list but the success Ive had with the Kan Wall is refreshing.

I quess that brings up another question. Kan Wall works, but for tourney paly moving all those models in a timely enough fashin is it possible. Or are horde lists really more for fun games. so far i seem to take a LOT longer with footsloggin then most other games and since tournies are timed Id think that matters.

Anyways thanks for the replies and the advice. Im beginning to find my inner WAAAAGH even if it is a little weedy so far.

Take the Grotzookas out of your kans and insert rokkit launchas before Gork and Mork stomp your models into fungus.

*EDIT*

Holy crap, I just saw the rest of the list. You have other problems.

Lose the rokkit launchas and kombi-skorchas from the boys squads. You don't need the double gretchin unit either; you've got no proper place for them in that list. Uh....Deffdreads aren't that good. Not when you have no fast attacks and an elite open.


For a change of pace, here's a 2,000 point Kan-wall that I just built for someone with some tactics appropriate for the situation they're in - although the army can do well enough in most situations.

HQ: Big Mek + KFF + 'Eavy Armor
HQ: Warboss + Powerklaw + 'Eavy Armor + Attack Squig

Troop1: 30 Shoota Boyz + Nob, Powerklaw, Bosspole
Troop2: 30 Shoota Boyz + Nob, Powerklaw, Bosspole
Troop3: 19 Gretchin + 1x Runtherder
Troop4: 19 Gretchin + 1x Runtherder

Elite1: 15 Lootas
Elite2: 15 Lootas
Elite3: 5x Kommandos, 2x Burnas + Snikrot

FA1: 1x Deffkopta + Twin-Linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw
FA2: 1x Deffkopta + Twin-Linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw
FA3: 1x Deffkopta + Twin-Linked Rokkits + Buzzsaw

Heavy1: 3x Killa-Kans with 3x Rokkit Launchas
Heavy2: 3x Killa-Kans with 3x Rokkit Launchas
Heavy3: 3x Killa-Kans with 3x Rokkit Launchas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For YOU at 1850.....

You can cut a unit of gretchin out, cut the kommandos out, cut the Lootas down to a unit of 5 and a unit of 15. A few ways to spin that one. Lootas should pretty much always be 5 or 15, but nothing in between.

Ok thx for the quick rsponse again DoP.

Now i saw the Kan wall post going against the IG mess. I though the warboss was for his kommandos. If so should i still take the second KFF. and is 2 squads if 30 boyz better enough at 1850 or do i need the 3rd. and why are loota only 5 or 15. i am definately sold that they are our best low armor tank killers, so why must they be min maxed like that?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also i took the kombi scorchas for the shooting hit prior to the intial assault , this is bad because .....? i belive you, because of your sucess rate but i dont understand.

@txscotch12: You list is illegal, you have 7 troops choices