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@Pyriel, what fluff mistakes are you thinking of?

Well for starters SM doesnt feel anything SM what so ever and orks are ridiculous.
Invounerable nobs with cheap global reinforcing that wade through wntire armies all by themselves, big shootas owning everything on their own?
Assault marines not being able to kill of one single eldar guardian (no damage output at all),
SM being more scared of any form of melee then little schoolgirls etc etc.

Playing SM in DoW2 is like playing imperial guardsmen with power armour animations.

Pyriel- wrote:

@Pyriel, what fluff mistakes are you thinking of?

Well for starters SM doesnt feel anything SM what so ever and orks are ridiculous.
Invounerable nobs with cheap global reinforcing that wade through wntire armies all by themselves, big shootas owning everything on their own?
Assault marines not being able to kill of one single eldar guardian (no damage output at all),
SM being more scared of any form of melee then little schoolgirls etc etc.

Playing SM in DoW2 is like playing imperial guardsmen with power armour animations.

Are we playing the same game?

I hope the make DoWIII operate like DoWII, but, bigger. I want it to be close to the table top game, but in realtime. Like Super-Vassal.

What I'm getting at is instead of base building or silly little 3 man squads, I want to choose an army list before every mission, and be able to deploy with that. Some form of persistance, like being able to name my squads would be nice, as well.

This is exciting news.
I'm praying they leave out base building. Base building is the such a clown-shoes mechanic, and it's been outdated for a decade. I was very happy to see DoWII do away with it.
The thing I hate about SC2 is that 90% of all fighting happens in either your base, or your enemy's base. The rest of the battlefield is superfluous and mostly unused, except to build more base... Feels like I'm playing Sim City.
DoWII puts the fighting out on the battlefield, making it feel more like, *gasp*, a battlefield! I also like the lack of builder units. I love that soldier units are responsible for capturing points and getting resources instead of making you crank out 30 crappy peons to get money.

To me, THQ and Relic have proven themselves in the arena of superlative RTS games by cutting out all the annoying crap that doesn't belong in RTS games, which nobody else seems to have the balls to do. I'll get this Ork expansion, and I'll most likely get DoW3.

So long as they return to the roots of gameplay that dawn of war 1 had, minus the base building if the majority dislike it.

The problems with dawn of war 2 are many, units feel too weak, nothing feels like a war (only skirmishes) and there is no way to focus the battle. I could go on, but I won't

Still can't believe they will just scrap the idea of an eldar and nid campaign for dow2, perhaps they finally realized they made a mistake with the game.

I loved the idea and story behind DOWII but the mechanics felt "clunky" to me. I also hated that SM were the only playable race in story mode and that the fact that the game had zero replayability. It felt like half a game in my book.

*Sigh* I hope DOWIII won't be as "manufactured" as the first.

Sidstyler wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:On 40k Online... I hope becoming a Space Marine is handled better than Jedi were when SWG was initially released. Just the fact that 40k online is apparently using the same tried and tired type class system kinda diminishes my hopes.

I dunno, I kinda like how it was handled actually. It should be hard to become a Jedi/Space Marine or else EVERYONE would be one.

If they allow people to be Marines from the start, then that'll really turn me off and I'll probably end up passing on the game. Of course that's exactly what they're going to do because they know for a fact that, thanks to GW, everyone who buys this game is only going to do it so they can be a Marine. That and it wouldn't appeal to the casual crowd, either.

First "better" doesn't mean more common. Better means a system that doesn't require you to max out random class abilities unrelated to the end goal, just to have to unlearn them before unlocking the option to start the class everyone who bothered wanted from the start.

Not everyone wanted to be Jedi, and not everyone would want to be a space marine, if they're given equally worth while options. In games, if you want players to feel consequential you have to let them be above average. Space marines would do that, guardsmen "Cannon Fodder" won't. I see no problem with a game where everyone can be a jedi (SW:Old Republic) or a Space Marine. Let people play the superhero and leave the dying as fodder for the npcs. I know giving people what they want is something MMO's avoid doing, so it easier to string players along, but maybe something are worth giving the players.

Melissia wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:

@Pyriel, what fluff mistakes are you thinking of?

Well for starters SM doesnt feel anything SM what so ever and orks are ridiculous.
Invounerable nobs with cheap global reinforcing that wade through wntire armies all by themselves, big shootas owning everything on their own?
Assault marines not being able to kill of one single eldar guardian (no damage output at all),
SM being more scared of any form of melee then little schoolgirls etc etc.

Playing SM in DoW2 is like playing imperial guardsmen with power armour animations.

Are we playing the same game?

First I wouldn't call those fluff mistakes, those would be balancing issues. Seriously, I never had any of these problems. With the exception of the boss battles I generally wanted it more difficult.

I still don't understand why so many people bitch about DoWII. All most of these people want is the same game with a new coat of paint, and innovation terrifies them. I enjoy DoW1 and 2 equally, and play them both all the time. The new expansion sounds kickass, and the fact that DoWIII is in production makes me very happy.

Melissia wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:

@Pyriel, what fluff mistakes are you thinking of?

Well for starters SM doesnt feel anything SM what so ever and orks are ridiculous.
Invounerable nobs with cheap global reinforcing that wade through wntire armies all by themselves, big shootas owning everything on their own?
Assault marines not being able to kill of one single eldar guardian (no damage output at all),
SM being more scared of any form of melee then little schoolgirls etc etc.

Playing SM in DoW2 is like playing imperial guardsmen with power armour animations.

Are we playing the same game?

By the sound of it the only game he was playing was the one he came up with while typing his post. I'll call it troll 2.

First I wouldn't call those fluff mistakes, those would be balancing issues. Seriously, I never had any of these problems. With the exception of the boss battles I generally wanted it more difficult.

Agree, it was deliberate balance designs but that excuse went through the window as soon as chaos came as a playable race.
They got all the toys relic claimed would unbalance SM.

The point is the game is about trademarked "space marines" as primary sales pitch, with that go at least some responsibility regarding fluff.
How would you feel if you were an avid tau fan (if tau were a playable race in said game) and relic made them loosing out in the shooty game with everyone else easily outshooting them and excused this with in game "balancing" reasons?

A race, balance or no balance, has to be made to follow its trademark or else it is not a true 40k "space marine" (or insert whatever is used) and SM in DoW2 sadly do not have the feel of 40k SM, even with game balancing issues included.

Its like playing LoTR middle earth, you expect to be given rock hard dwarves with good mithril armours, fast and fragile elves that are good at range, horde but weak orks without numbers and armoured human knights with big swords but instead in the name of gaming balance you are given dwarwes that wear paper armour, slow and rock hard melee elves, super tough orks that beat everything and naked knight childred armed with water pistols.
Sure it looks like LoTR middle earth but in reality it is not...at least as long as you are prepared to accept it all due to lazy game balancing issues based on what group of noobs whine the loudest on the balancing forums.

Exactly this was the bane of most of the DoW2 patches so far, from unbeatable ripper swarms to owning plasmatac blobs to insane banshees to over the top eldar anti SM rangers and hands down best in game ork artillery.
Fortunately relic are gettign better in the latest patches but people (including top rank players) are still shaking their heads at some of the current imba things and how it got passed relic.

By the sound of it the only game he was playing was the one he came up with while typing his post. I'll call it troll 2.

You sound like well, I call a whiner, happy only as long as "your" race is the top tier and screw balance and fluff after that.

Melissia wrote:

Pyriel- wrote:

@Pyriel, what fluff mistakes are you thinking of?

Well for starters SM doesnt feel anything SM what so ever and orks are ridiculous.
Invounerable nobs with cheap global reinforcing that wade through wntire armies all by themselves, big shootas owning everything on their own?
Assault marines not being able to kill of one single eldar guardian (no damage output at all),
SM being more scared of any form of melee then little schoolgirls [u]etc etc.

Playing SM in DoW2 is like playing imperial guardsmen with power armour animations.

Are we playing the same game?

What? I will have you know that my Force Commander and Thadeus and well Thule has taken out tanks, demons, orc, nids, eldar, they are my Tank/DPS unit in the whole game



I do hope that Dawn of War 2 Retribution provide more than one campaign( and i hope it doesn't do it with just a lot of maps you can take on, but with at least bits of story instead continuing from the Dawn of War 2 chaos rising ending, whichever is canon), with the same system, there's not enough Squad based streamlined RTS IMO, rather than going the route of Dawn of War

Just to clerify, the sp campaign is one thing and a pretty good one at that, the more important multiplayer part, which I was referring to, is very very poor in regards to fluff.
So I´m not bashing the campaign, if that was the misunderstanding then it is my bad for not being clear enough on that.

Pyriel- wrote:Just to clerify, the sp campaign is one thing and a pretty good one at that, the more important multiplayer part, which I was referring to, is very very poor in regards to fluff.
So I´m not bashing the campaign, if that was the misunderstanding then it is my bad for not being clear enough on that.

Neither is the multiplayer in DoW1. I dare you to play a good round of DoW1 without losing a company of Marines. It's literally as fluffy as tabletop.

DoW2 struck me as extremely fluffy. The campaign was well put together, and the single player was as well. 3 marines are a powerful unit, and with a sergeant and special weapon they become a dangerous late game unit.

You sound like well, I call a whiner, happy only as long as "your" race is the top tier and screw balance and fluff after that.

I was commenting more on the fact that what you said made no fething sense and didn't sound the like the that I played, nor the game that we are discussing here. You were probably exaggerating (greatly) for effect, but what you stated was still blatantly misrepresenting the game you claim to know.

How about a 40k styled Total War like game?

Lord_Astaroth wrote:Great! Let's hope this one doesn't suck. I beta tested DOW and DOW2. I had DOW2 installed on my pc and it was on there for all of literally 1 hour. Coudln't delete it fast enough. They got rid of base building, something that IMO is crucial in a good RTS. They took a great game, added a "2" on to it. That's what they turned it into. #2.

Don't get me wrong, DOW2 is simply a beautiful game, but certainly not my style of gameplay. I'll stick with Starcraft 2 for now.

.
Well, its obvious that games like starcraft are more for you and games like DOW 2 arent. You cant work around it. Me, I didnt like te new SC and I love DoW2.

Archonate wrote:This is exciting news.
I'm praying they leave out base building. Base building is the such a clown-shoes mechanic, and it's been outdated for a decade. I was very happy to see DoWII do away with it.
The thing I hate about SC2 is that 90% of all fighting happens in either your base, or your enemy's base. The rest of the battlefield is superfluous and mostly unused, except to build more base... Feels like I'm playing Sim City.
DoWII puts the fighting out on the battlefield, making it feel more like, *gasp*, a battlefield! I also like the lack of builder units. I love that soldier units are responsible for capturing points and getting resources instead of making you crank out 30 crappy peons to get money.

To me, THQ and Relic have proven themselves in the arena of superlative RTS games by cutting out all the annoying crap that doesn't belong in RTS games, which nobody else seems to have the balls to do. I'll get this Ork expansion, and I'll most likely get DoW3.

This is all true and I like Dow 2 precisely ecasue of that. no bse means no base rape and rush early game and you get to focus on micro and playing your troops.

I liked both DOW games somewhat... Like dthe first better then the second... My biggest complaint for the second... The total lack of guardsmen as a playable army...
In addition I also felt that DOW2 left me feeling like I was controlling a PLT of infantry, maybe a COY at most. Generally just undersized combat. Felt like I was controlling a minor skirmish action or a reconnaissance action rather than an offensive action or a tactical operation.

That was my initial reaction to DoW2. It felt too small. I missed the large scale feel that DoW1 had. But once I got used to the mechanics of the micro game, DoW2 started feeling more and more fun. You get to play with your army more. You never have to even look at your base structure. You don't have to divide your resources between buildings, upgrades and troops so much. Your attention is on your fighting army almost the entire game. IMO, base building and resource-gathering units contaminate the the game with aspects that aren't enjoyable.

In SC2 I beat another player by rushing their base immediately with my 5 builder units... 'nuff said. That kinda crap would never happen in DoW2.

Brother SRM wrote:I still don't understand why so many people bitch about DoWII. All most of these people want is the same game with a new coat of paint

That is exactly what I want in a sequel, generally. If it's going to take the game in a completely new direction, it should be a new title, IMO. DOW1 was an RTS. DOW2 is more of a real-time tactical game. I don't hate DOW2 but it's definitely not the same at all.

It may be old, but I like base building.. not so much base building and tech trees as I like turtling behind defensive fortifications.

Give me the ability to use a techpriest or servitor to build up turrets and towers and fortifications and I'd like it a little more.

I didnt like the 1 player campaign of Warcraft 3 much because of the focus on hero units. DoW 1 still had HQ types, but they were still fairly managable and werent 90% of your battle... in most cases.

(Necron Lord!!)

Anyways, I can see the appeal for both types, I'm just more slanted to traditional RTS.

Someone mentioned taking a DoW title and making a Super Vassal. THIS is what I really want.

Hell, use the slow and aggrivating Bloodbowl Engine if they have to. I want cyber warhammer!

I think a Total War style DoW3 would be awesome wrapped in sex dipped in happiness. DoW 1 had the more epic "I have LOTS of stuff!" feel, coming close to the feel of the table top. DoW 2 took out the base building (which made me kind of sad) and added really nice hero and fairly nice unit leveling, as well as taking more of the battle to the field as others have said.

What both have that doesn't make a lot of sense is the need to start with just a few little units and build a bigger army that apparently arrives by teleportation.

My answer would be to make a more Total War/DoW1 Dark Crusade map style campaign where you control territory, build bases and armies and maneuver on a strategic map, and then fight battles with set armies. One could even do it on a really massive scale such as a planetary system, with each planet having many regions to fight over (many as in 1,000's).

Maybe it is just the fact that the Total War games are some of my favorites, even if the AI has been weak in the past few, but there is so much room for replayability and effective use of various skills sets, as well as sweeping, epic feel that it seems like the best possible bet.

Ouze wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:I still don't understand why so many people bitch about DoWII. All most of these people want is the same game with a new coat of paint

That is exactly what I want in a sequel, generally. If it's going to take the game in a completely new direction, it should be a new title, IMO. DOW1 was an RTS. DOW2 is more of a real-time tactical game. I don't hate DOW2 but it's definitely not the same at all.

If you just want to play the same game, play the same game. A good sequel doesn't just rest on the laurels of it's predecessor.

DoW2 had multiplayer???

I have just been playing the Campaign mode on every vary degree of difficulty and thoroughly enjoying playing that.

DoW got horrible after Winter Assualt.

But I personally think the best part of the game is Co-oping the Campaign storyline with Friends. Thats when the game Really shines.

Footage has hit the internet, did a brake down on what we have.

BTW it's "Breakdown"

I'm just loving it more and more. The animations are quite nice.

Lol 5 year old thread? I think this counts as a necro, probably best to start a new one to avoid confusion with the page 1 posts being completely out of date -

That's a good idea!

Anyone up for it?

Feel free to do it, please!