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I went to the Naval Academy, and this sounds a lot like Plebe Summer. The best advice I could give your brother is to ask himself if he really wants to be there, why he applied in the first place. I know that is where I found the motivation to keep going through all the crap that was thrown our way.

whatwhat wrote:Sure you tackle something head on and come out of it, granted. You also learn to submit to arbitrary control. This is a good thing? Not in my mind.

Learning to submit to 'arbitrary control' -to the sgt or Lt in charge, for example- is what keeps men alive in combat. It's what wins battles.
When the Sarge tells you & 3 other guys that you have the take that bunker while everyone else provides cover fire, you shut up and do it. You submit to his control.

The thought that it's up for debate... that you have some say in the decision? That gets people fragged.


Eric

That's not arbitrary control, but yes I understand the purpose is to make recruits follow orders without questioning them. And I understand why that is necessary. I'm just questioning whether it is a good thing for the individual.

Many people have a problem with authority and yes some people need it beaten out of them. But for others it can be a very good quality to have.

whatwhat wrote:Seems like it's a lose lose situation. Quit and get called a pussy by the likes of matyrm. Or stay and lose the ability to question what someone, in a position of authority over you, tells you to do.

That is what joining the army means.

Kilkrazy wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Seems like it's a lose lose situation. Quit and get called a pussy by the likes of matyrm. Or stay and lose the ability to question what someone, in a position of authority over you, tells you to do.

That is what joining the army means.

Yes, completely agree.

I'm talking in response to then OP who's brother is having doubts. after his first day. IMO one of them options is less 'lose' than the other.

WW i had a look at your green stuff tutorial btw mate, nice work that.

Now, i didnt call him a pussy, and i said tell him you didnt think he had it in him anyway, and "Tell him it was part of your plan and he will forgive you afterwards!"

Its the exact opposite infact, my cousin John tried out for the RM and failed, but at least he tried, i shook his hand when he came home and said "good effort", but at the time i tried to wind him up so he would stay the course. The whole point of my post was that men have alot of pride, and that can be used to stop you quitting... not that i would actually cruelly mock someone over it.

My mate Moz joined up a few years after me, and i wouldnt have thought any less of him at all for failing (he didnt),its always better to try and fail than never try at all.

Seriously, there is a huge difference between trying to spur people on to achieve things they didnt think they were capable of and just being horrible to someone and calling them a "pussy" you really dont understand me at all it seems, but you strike me as one of the lefty hate on the military types anyway, so i wouldnt expect you to.

All i will say mate, is that if you think im that much of a tool i would mock somebody for failing a very diffcult bit of military work you really have me pegged as a very nasty man, and not just a bloke who took a slight dislike to you cos he thought you whined alot.

His brother is having doubts, everybody does, and thats why it means something!

Fair one, I take it back.

I still imagine there would be those that would mock though.

Kilkrazy wrote:It is a somewhat basic way of breaking down individuality and forcing the person to submit themselves to arbitrary control.

Of course it doesn't matter a tinker's cuss whether someone chews six or seven times. The point is to make people follow orders unthinkingly.

It also fosters group cohesion because everyone who gets through the process feels a bond with the people who suffered with them.

that reminds me of brave new world somehow


Automatically Appended Next Post:

filbert wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Sure you tackle something head on and come out of it, granted. You also learn to submit to arbitrary control. This is a good thing? Not in my mind.

Submit to arbitrary control? What, do all soldiers come out of basic training like the Borg? They aren't unthinking, uncaring, blindly obeying automatons you know...

YES THEY GOD FUCING ARE!!!!!!!!!!!! THE BORG HAVE MORE INDEPENDENT THOUGHT!

warboss spinetwizta wrote:YES THEY GOD FUCING ARE!!!!!!!!!!!! THE BORG HAVE MORE INDEPENDENT THOUGHT!

I'd say something to this, but I'm not sure if it actually is stupidity, or just sarcasm.

My sarcasto-metre is broken on this one...

whatwhat wrote:Fair one, I take it back.

I still imagine there would be those that would mock though.

There's always going to be arseholes in the world whatwhat. People should stop caring about what others think and form their own opinions and enjoyment. Besides his brother gave it a try that's probably better than what some of his critics do. I think he should stick in there though just “grin and bear”.