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So brother decided that he wanted to go to a military institute in order to get himself educated. He was stuck on it for a year and a half and just started this sunday (August. 22) and last night (August. 22) he wanted to quit. You see, the first week there the new students go through hell week.

He gets woken up at insane hours, constant yelling, heat, they even take away their watches and don't let them tell time. It's basically a weeks worth of bootcamp. Unfortunately he didn't get any sleep because it was around 90 degrees there and they don't have any air conditioning so he called near the middle of the night wanting to give up and quit. Of course my mom didn't want him to quit and I didn't want him to quit. He was broken and to tell the truth I knew he would get broken while my mom had higher expectations.

I think the issue was that he had expected himself to breeze through hell week and when he didn't breeze through the first day he came down on himself very hard. He couldn't meet his own expectations and thought that he would continue to fail. Good news is he decided to carry through monday morning, so we will hopefully see him the 5th of september.


I want to know if any of you have had to go through a hell week and how you coped, of course any advice given won't be used because we can't call him during hell week or during the majority of his first semester.

Never been through hell week, just be glad he is not in Russia to get "educated". Just throw a Big party for him.... that makes everyone feel better!

There's a reason it's called what it is...

I remember weekend training sessions at the armoury here. Fold out cots with tarp matresses that sounded like marching drums whenever you moved on them. Getting woken up at 3am to go on firewatch till 4, then going for a 3Km, (mostly) uphill PT run in the freezing cold november darkness, complete with icy roads and frostbitten lungs. Then you'd get fed up well, and fast-marched until you yakked your food back up.

You really learn a lot about how to find it in yourself to keep going. I'll say that much. If you think you knew both self and team determination beforehand, just go through that first week.

Here's where he stays now.



Like I said, there is no such thing as AC and if they are told to they have to wear sweats or uniform to bed. It was around 90 degrees outside so sitting in a room with 3 other sweaty guys probably raised the heat up a bit.

He also does the PT and the area out there is all hills or stairs. He gets a cot, but luckily it gets a roll up mattress.

When it comes to food, he can't look at what he's eating and can only chew 6 bites. If he chews more the 1st slaps him in the back of the head and makes him spit it out. He doesn't get a choice in what he eats either, the 1st's tell him which line to get in. There's a whole mess about other stuff too. He lives on the fourth floor and the only bathroom is in the basement. If a 1st is on the stair case and tells him to run back up he has to.

Yeah, hell week. I think satan himself would have a problem with it.

That sounds more like "Endure dickheads week" than anything. I'd be able to tolerate heat and uncomfortableness, but some prick slaps me for eating or tells me I can't use the restroom for no reason, there would be a few words exchanged.

Ultrafool wrote:Never been through hell week, just be glad he is not in Russia to get "educated". Just throw a Big party for him.... that makes everyone feel better!

In communist Russia, education gets you!

halonachos wrote:Here's where he stays now.



Like I said, there is no such thing as AC and if they are told to they have to wear sweats or uniform to bed. It was around 90 degrees outside so sitting in a room with 3 other sweaty guys probably raised the heat up a bit.

He also does the PT and the area out there is all hills or stairs. He gets a cot, but luckily it gets a roll up mattress.

When it comes to food, he can't look at what he's eating and can only chew 6 bites. If he chews more the 1st slaps him in the back of the head and makes him spit it out. He doesn't get a choice in what he eats either, the 1st's tell him which line to get in. There's a whole mess about other stuff too. He lives on the fourth floor and the only bathroom is in the basement. If a 1st is on the stair case and tells him to run back up he has to.

Yeah, hell week. I think satan himself would have a problem with it.

Ha ha only 90? thats nothing to Australia. I live with 103-113 degrees here with no AC for from Spring to Summer

Do you wear a wool uniform and march around?

halonachos wrote:Do you wear a wool uniform and march around?

Well when I went to school I did. But I do workout and jog regularly on days like that

The Citadel, or VMI?

stories about stuff like this is one of the reasons I didn't join the military after high school. And I was looking into the air force which they say is a little "easier" .. but still.. slapping you for chewing too many times... why? I mean, is it really that big of a deal if you chew 7 times instead of 6? And I'm one of those people with a bladder the size of a golf ball, I gotta pee about 87 times a day. If someone told me I couldn't, I'd prolly unzip and go on their shoes.

Necros wrote: I mean, is it really that big of a deal if you chew 7 times instead of 6?

If your goal is to become an elite, professional soldier, yes. Military colleges are not a joke and are not an easy way out of boot camp. You have to be very very motivated and you have to be able to steel yourself mentally. You have to remember, even though he is quitting there are still people that aren't, and in a few days Hell Week will be over.

This is still not to bad compared to special forces hell week. I know BUDs but I would imagine that others have it as well.

It is a somewhat basic way of breaking down individuality and forcing the person to submit themselves to arbitrary control.

Of course it doesn't matter a tinker's cuss whether someone chews six or seven times. The point is to make people follow orders unthinkingly.

It also fosters group cohesion because everyone who gets through the process feels a bond with the people who suffered with them.

Yak9UT wrote:

halonachos wrote:Here's where he stays now.



Like I said, there is no such thing as AC and if they are told to they have to wear sweats or uniform to bed. It was around 90 degrees outside so sitting in a room with 3 other sweaty guys probably raised the heat up a bit.

He also does the PT and the area out there is all hills or stairs. He gets a cot, but luckily it gets a roll up mattress.

When it comes to food, he can't look at what he's eating and can only chew 6 bites. If he chews more the 1st slaps him in the back of the head and makes him spit it out. He doesn't get a choice in what he eats either, the 1st's tell him which line to get in. There's a whole mess about other stuff too. He lives on the fourth floor and the only bathroom is in the basement. If a 1st is on the stair case and tells him to run back up he has to.

Yeah, hell week. I think satan himself would have a problem with it.

Ha ha only 90? thats nothing to Australia. I live with 103-113 degrees here with no AC for from Spring to Summer

Well in Britain we get 68 degrees.

The first week or two is when new bloods should be thinking about quitting and wonder what the hell they got themselves into. Its all just a series of mind games that tries to prepare one for combat but for me boot camp was fun since its ultimately just a series of challenges that'll make you stronger in the end. And if hell weeks' tough, just think about the difficulties faced in real combat and then judge if you belong.

However the difference between garrison duty and boot camp is night and day; military's much more like a civilian organization than one would think (especially the Air Force) and you only bring out the inner R Lee Ermy in NCO's if you do something stupid enough to warrant it. The stuff your brother's going through also has a lot of history and background behind it, kinda cool to think that you're going through basically the same hell that generations prior have.

Hell Week is hard for everyone, that's the point.

Everyone has their own personal difficulties and challenges that they have to face, for your brother it seems like he's used to being lazy and they're not tolerant of that. The simple solution for him is to realize it's all a game, to suck it up and drive on. If he can't do that maybe military school isn't for him. Military life isn't easy and being up at odd hours, sleeping in uncomfortable environments and uniforms, eating on the run and eating crappy food are all regular parts of it. Though all of this may seem like pointless cruelty the entire goal of it is to make your dear brother a little tougher and a hell of a lot more disciplined.


A couple tips:
1) Do what they want, when they want, how they want
2) Don't think, just do
3) Make anything you can into a sandwich
4) Find something to distract yourself while getting smoked, standing in formation ect.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The Citadel, or VMI?

VMI, the one and only.

I think the transformation was kind of funny. He was all gung-ho and started making fun of other schools(What do a Citadel and VMI candidate have in common? They both applied to VMI) and he romanticized the idea and then he suddenly just wasn't him. He told my mom that she made him do it(it was all his idea and my mom told him not to do it), he said it wasn't for him when he was really into it, and in general he just seemed weak. The same kid I get into fist fights with and laugh about it later, the same kid who could wrestle and win with a broken pinky or a bruised sternum. It was just weird. I know its supposed to break him and I thought it would, but it was just weird. He does need the discipline though, hes not an evil sob, he just doesn't listen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The doctor my mom works for went to VMI and told him a lot of stories. A lot of them are pretty funny.

Tell him to read Starship Troopers and be glad he doesn't have to go through boot camp Federation style.

Seriously though, Hell Week is supposed to drive out any and all illusion that someone may have that they are invincible/the best/ready for everything, as well as forcing the troops to bond through shared misery/hate of NCOs

I did army cadets when I was in high school, and we were told by some career guys that for SAS training, once everyone is assembled they get told to do pushups, and the first X people to stop are out.
No idea if it was true or not, but it doesnt sound too farfetched to me.

'm guessing that if he's going to a military college, that he's going for an commission. Just remind him that once he's an officer, he'll likely get it a hell of a lot easier than poor schmucks like me that got fooled into being enlisted.

Hell Week? hah! Try hell month!

Whilst i am playfully displaying my typicaly elitist green beret attitude, this is the attitude to take with him.

Sure, women love to be encouraged, but he aint a woman, hes a man, doing hell week. Women like to say (im sure this is the type of thing your mom will be saying if he is tearfully on the phone) "oh its ok honey, we wont think any less of you, come home if your unhappy.. nothing is worth being miserable for.. blah blah"

Mens pride is their whip, and anger fuels your muscles.

Call him up and say "Oh yeah, mom wants you to come home, i always told her you wouldnt be able to do it, and dad said he always thought you were a sissy as well, you just should come home man, never should have tried it..."

Or words to that effect. You can tell him it was all your plan at the start once he completes it and he will forgive you!

After i didnt get any sleep for 4 days and they made me crawl through the nettles for an hour with my trousers around my ankles i called my dad up and told him i wanted to quit. He said "If you leave, your sleeping in the shed when you get back home you fething girl"

After my toe nails fell off following my 30 mile yomp i rang home again, and he insulted me again.

I didnt quit.

Women like gentle encouragement, men like a cold fury to settle upon their bones and a great chance to say "feth you" to everyone who ever doubted you.

Oh and the chance to stab and shoot people.

Well.. maybe that last ones just me.

del'Vhar wrote:Tell him to read Starship Troopers and be glad he doesn't have to go through boot camp Federation style.

Seriously though, Hell Week is supposed to drive out any and all illusion that someone may have that they are invincible/the best/ready for everything, as well as forcing the troops to bond through shared misery/hate of NCOs

I did army cadets when I was in high school, and we were told by some career guys that for SAS training, once everyone is assembled they get told to do pushups, and the first X people to stop are out.
No idea if it was true or not, but it doesnt sound too farfetched to me.

True sadly....I know a guy who actually did the SAS prep in Australia, down to bootcamp etc. Running along the side of the motorway from the barracks to perth city and back (about 30 km's) with full kit with timing.

Seems like it's a lose lose situation. Quit and get called a pussy by the likes of matyrm. Or stay and lose the ability to question what someone, in a position of authority over you, tells you to do.

whatwhat wrote:Seems like it's a lose lose situation. Quit and get called a pussy by the likes of matyrm. Or stay and lose the ability to question what someone, in a position of authority over you, tells you to do.

It's got very little to do with being called a 'pussy' by others and everything to do with having the drive, guts and determination to tackle something head on and come out a better person for it. All military training involves this; if it were easy, it wouldn't be decent training. Remember - train hard, fight easy; train easy, fight hard and die. By it's very nature, military training has to be tough. As has been noted, it is all part of a process to break you down and rebuild you from the ground up.

To the OP, if your brother quits, ultimately he will be the harshest critic of himself, no matter what anyone else thinks, and over time he will regret it. I felt exactly the same on day 1 week 1 of basic training but after 5 years in the forces, I wouldn't be the person I am now if I hadn't stuck with it.

Sure you tackle something head on and come out of it, granted. You also learn to submit to arbitrary control. This is a good thing? Not in my mind.

whatwhat wrote:Sure you tackle something head on and come out of it, granted. You also learn to submit to arbitrary control. This is a good thing? Not in my mind.

Submit to arbitrary control? What, do all soldiers come out of basic training like the Borg? They aren't unthinking, uncaring, blindly obeying automatons you know...

filbert wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Sure you tackle something head on and come out of it, granted. You also learn to submit to arbitrary control. This is a good thing? Not in my mind.

Submit to arbitrary control? What, do all soldiers come out of basic training like the Borg? They aren't unthinking, uncaring, blindly obeying automatons you know...

Being an unthinking, uncaring person isn't a requisite of submitting to something unreasonable.

whatwhat wrote:

filbert wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Sure you tackle something head on and come out of it, granted. You also learn to submit to arbitrary control. This is a good thing? Not in my mind.

Submit to arbitrary control? What, do all soldiers come out of basic training like the Borg? They aren't unthinking, uncaring, blindly obeying automatons you know...

Being an unthinking, uncaring person isn't a requisite of submitting to something unreasonable.

Not they aren't and that's why I said soldiers aren't that and why I also qualified that soldiers don't 'blindly submit' as you put it. If you have a beef with the military, aside from being your own opinion, it is probably better served in another thread rather than derailing this thread where someone is asking for constructive advice about a family member pursuing a military career.

filbert wrote:

whatwhat wrote:

filbert wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Sure you tackle something head on and come out of it, granted. You also learn to submit to arbitrary control. This is a good thing? Not in my mind.

Submit to arbitrary control? What, do all soldiers come out of basic training like the Borg? They aren't unthinking, uncaring, blindly obeying automatons you know...

Being an unthinking, uncaring person isn't a requisite of submitting to something unreasonable.

Not they aren't and that's why I said soldiers aren't that and why I also qualified that soldiers don't 'blindly submit' as you put it. If you have a beef with the military, aside from being your own opinion, it is probably better served in another thread rather than derailing this thread where someone is asking for constructive advice about a family member pursuing a military career.

Actually I never put it as 'blindly submit.' I was saying that by learning to submit to arbitrary control you don't automatically then become an unthinking uncaring person. And I have no 'beef' as you put it with the military. I'm just questioning whether being taught to submit to arbitrary control (the main object of this so called 'hell week') is a good thing. Cool it. Constructive advice works both ways.

Meh, I can't be bothered to reply to you anymore whatwhat - pretty much all of the posts I have read from you have been ill-informed, antagonistic, judgemental crap. I have never felt the urge to put anyone on ignore before but I will make an exception for you I think - your opinions just aren't worth the time needed to read them.

As mentioned before, this is nothing to do with 'constructive criticism' but everything to do with provoking a reaction from the military personnel (both ex and serving) which you have attempted to do before in other threads.

It's your own definition of 'arbitrary control' which is causing you to view my posts as derogatory to military personel.

And I don't know where the hell I've tried to antagonise military personnel before. Mattyrm sure, but never because he was ex military.