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Being twice as good as Melta weapons over Melta range more than justifies the cost of Lascannons being 2.3x that of Multi-Meltas and 3.5x the cost of Melta Guns.

NostrilOfTerror wrote:Chaosy Lascannons get 4 shots at BS 4, but any rolls to hit of 1 hit the nearest friendly unit (or the firing unit if none are visible)

Chaos Lascannons:
R: 48" Str: 9 Ap: 1 Special Rule: Gets Hot!, Heavy 1

Would be how to do that.

Slarg232 wrote:

NostrilOfTerror wrote:Chaosy Lascannons get 4 shots at BS 4, but any rolls to hit of 1 hit the nearest friendly unit (or the firing unit if none are visible)

Chaos Lascannons:
R: 48" Str: 9 Ap: 1 Special Rule: Gets Hot!, Heavy 1

Would be how to do that.

Which makes Lascannons on vehicles have no downside in regards to Gets Hot.

Che-Vito wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:

NostrilOfTerror wrote:Chaosy Lascannons get 4 shots at BS 4, but any rolls to hit of 1 hit the nearest friendly unit (or the firing unit if none are visible)

Chaos Lascannons:
R: 48" Str: 9 Ap: 1 Special Rule: Gets Hot!, Heavy 1

Would be how to do that.

Which makes Lascannons on vehicles have no downside in regards to Gets Hot.

Extra points, and if they made the only Vehicle able to get that the current Dreadnaught...

Or, because the Havoc Launcher is Vehicle Only (which I have never understood why) they could make this thing Personnel only.

The lascannon at Str9 AP2 has been a standard of the game from 3rd ed on. For most of that time it's not only been a perfectly effective weapon, it's been so completely superior to alternatives that it was all people ever bothered to take.

It remains an extremely good weapon for cracking light and medium armour from your side of the board. It isn't able to reliably explode AV14 targets but that okay, people pay a lot of points for AV14 and it should take something pretty unique for them to explode it, either good dice or a suicide melta team.

The only issue with lascannons now is that in a few places they're overpriced. Drop the points on them and you'd solve the issue.

IMO, they do not need a boost at all, and the reason why Land Raiders and monoliths are AV 14 all round and hard to destroy is because they are supposed to be that way!
So no, I think that lascannons do not need a boost. What an absurd idea!!!

gustsnagga, you need to get over this fetish with exclimation points.

also, comming from the boy who wanted Assault 4 assault cannons...

Nurglitch wrote:Being twice as good as Melta weapons over Melta range more than justifies the cost of Lascannons being 2.3x that of Multi-Meltas and 3.5x the cost of Melta Guns.

Huh? vs AV 12 a MM is better than a Lascannon even outside of melta range.The Lascannon is no doubt overpriced. However, it could be worse, as someone mentioned previously, its not as horribly priced as the BL.

I have to say that Lascannons really don't need much help at all, maybe not even the points reduction(with other things far more overpriced to do the same tasks like the Brightlance).

I mean...the current lascannons are so terrible that nobody fields them, right? I never see them on LRBTs, Space Wolf Longfangs take 0, and no Predators wield them....right? -=Cought=-

Farseer Faenyin wrote:I have to say that Lascannons really don't need much help at all, maybe not even the points reduction(with other things far more overpriced to do the same tasks like the Brightlance).

I mean...the current lascannons are so terrible that nobody fields them, right? I never see them on LRBTs, Space Wolf Longfangs take 0, and no Predators wield them....right? -=Cought=-

Meh. It's the only game in town as far as long-range anti-tank power is concerned. Hell, up until 4E, it was the longest ranged weapon in the entire SM arsenal. If you want something to bust tanks as the Space Marines, most of your options come down to lucky hits from squad-based missile launchers, or (three guesses) a handful of lascannons, whether it's in a Dev squad, on a Landraider, or a Pred.

Overpriced? Maybe. But as long as it's filling a valuable role that not much else can do very well, the price is little more than a bitter pill to take with it.

Yes, I understand the bitter pill to swallow. Look at how we have to take a certain HQ choice with a certain upgrade to make half of our units marginally successful as Eldar.

Don't dropping Melta-Dreads do well enough at popping tanks for SM armies too?

Captain Solon wrote:
also, comming from the boy who wanted Assault 4 assault cannons...

I believe a that a frying pan just called a kettle, black.

Farseer Faenyin wrote:Yes, I understand the bitter pill to swallow. Look at how we have to take a certain HQ choice with a certain upgrade to make half of our units marginally successful as Eldar.

I...don't quite follow the train of thought here.

Farseer Faenyin wrote:Don't dropping Melta-Dreads do well enough at popping tanks for SM armies too?

Disregarding any number of things that can go wrong? Sure, that's fine. But in the interest of keeping my odds as high as possible, I'd much rather allocate the points from that Dread and pod somewhere else rather than a guaranteed suicide and a decidedly not guaranteed tank kill.

Captain Solon wrote:gustsnagga, you need to get over this fetish with exclimation points.

also, comming from the boy who wanted Assault 4 assault cannons...

And Captain Solon fails at life....again?!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/278889.page

Shocking, just shocking

I'd rather see lascannons as S10 than AP1. The fluff talks about them shattering hulls, to me that implies higher strength. I wouldn't mind if the portable versions stayed S9, but something called Godhammer HAS to be S10.

Surtur wrote:I'd rather see lascannons as S10 than AP1. The fluff talks about them shattering hulls, to me that implies higher strength. I wouldn't mind if the portable versions stayed S9, but something called Godhammer HAS to be S10.

Railgun =/= Lascannon

The railgun deserves higher Strength and lower Ap.

Why? I understand that a railgun is not a lascanon. One is shooting an extremely hot large laser the other is shooting a piece of metal that is accelerated by electric/magnetic fields. Neither sounds like a good day after being hit by one.

Surtur wrote:Why? I understand that a railgun is not a lascanon. One is shooting an extremely hot large laser the other is shooting a piece of metal that is accelerated by electric/magnetic fields. Neither sounds like a good day after being hit by one.

One is described as passing clean through targets, leaving nothing but slag inside.
The other is described as being effective against vehicles, but taking several shots to bring down a Carnifex.

Lascanons are described as capable of SHATTERING any enemy vehicle. They cause the target to heat up and explode in a fraction of a second.

Railguns are generally between two and five times the size of lascannons. It wouldn't really seem fair to the Tau to make them of equal strength.

I think the big problem with mech is that somewhere along the line someone thought it would be cool allow IG armies to take nine leman russes, and make rhinos cost less than three space marines. There's no way to balance that, either vehicles end up way too easy to kill or way too powerful. Lascannons have been getting overpriced, but they're also just getting swamped, whereas short-ranged anti-tank weapons are getting more use now.

Still laughing about the lascannons that roll 2D6 AP.
Lascannons are FINE!! Deal with it!

Think about this before you do it.

Do you really want Guard to get S10 lascannons, too? And theirs are cheaper and more numerous.

I'm not saying they should be, but people are putting forth that they should be AP1 and I put forth the idea that fluffwise at least, they seem to be more prone to S10. This entire thread exists to discuss making lascannons stronger and that's my thought on it. This isn't about game balance and "not being fair to tau" or some weird concept you all have made up. The OP put forth that the lore doesn't match the results at all and I gave my take on it. Of course any change to a weapon has to result in a point cost change.

Surtur wrote:I'm not saying they should be, but people are putting forth that they should be AP1 and I put forth the idea that fluffwise at least, they seem to be more prone to S10. This entire thread exists to discuss making lascannons stronger and that's my thought on it. This isn't about game balance and "not being fair to tau" or some weird concept you all have made up. The OP put forth that the lore doesn't match the results at all and I gave my take on it. Of course any change to a weapon has to result in a point cost change.

You really want 30 points lascannons, base cost?

Surtur wrote:I'm not saying they should be, but people are putting forth that they should be AP1 and I put forth the idea that fluffwise at least, they seem to be more prone to S10. This entire thread exists to discuss making lascannons stronger and that's my thought on it. This isn't about game balance and "not being fair to tau" or some weird concept you all have made up. The OP put forth that the lore doesn't match the results at all and I gave my take on it. Of course any change to a weapon has to result in a point cost change.

I don't want Lore to represent the game rules or else Space Marines would be damn near unstoppable, because the books have them being damn near unstoppable, Orkz could never lose, because they think they never lose, and the only way to Defeat nids would be "blow up the whole fething Planet and call it a day".

Lore=/= rules.

I don't know how you can even distinguish whether a weapon should be S10 or S9 from a desription about how it's a powerful anti-tank weapon. Both S10 and S9 would fit that description well enough.

sebster wrote:The lascannon at Str9 AP2 has been a standard of the game from 3rd ed on. For most of that time it's not only been a perfectly effective weapon, it's been so completely superior to alternatives that it was all people ever bothered to take.

It remains an extremely good weapon for cracking light and medium armour from your side of the board. It isn't able to reliably explode AV14 targets but that okay, people pay a lot of points for AV14 and it should take something pretty unique for them to explode it, either good dice or a suicide melta team.

The only issue with lascannons now is that in a few places they're overpriced. Drop the points on them and you'd solve the issue.

I present to you the Leman Russ chassis in all it's glory. The IG pays just 150 points (minimum) for an AV14 hull.....Meaning I can spam AV14 at you to the death if I could, and with Land Raiders being as prevalent as they are....But besides that, I think your right. To use a real world example: The lascannon is a Pak 38, able to take out most tanks easily but don't do as well against super heavy armored behemoths. I really would like there to be a weapon that's like an 88 though.....Guardsmen do not like having to get close to the big scary thing in order to melta it.

Melissia wrote:Think about this before you do it.

Do you really want Guard to get S10 lascannons, too? And theirs are cheaper and more numerous.

Yes, yes I would. Of course I play Guard, so my view might be skewed.

ChrisWWII wrote:

sebster wrote:The lascannon at Str9 AP2 has been a standard of the game from 3rd ed on. For most of that time it's not only been a perfectly effective weapon, it's been so completely superior to alternatives that it was all people ever bothered to take.

It remains an extremely good weapon for cracking light and medium armour from your side of the board. It isn't able to reliably explode AV14 targets but that okay, people pay a lot of points for AV14 and it should take something pretty unique for them to explode it, either good dice or a suicide melta team.

The only issue with lascannons now is that in a few places they're overpriced. Drop the points on them and you'd solve the issue.

I present to you the Leman Russ chassis in all it's glory. The IG pays just 150 points (minimum) for an AV14 hull.....Meaning I can spam AV14 at you to the death if I could, and with Land Raiders being as prevalent as they are....But besides that, I think your right. To use a real world example: The lascannon is a Pak 38, able to take out most tanks easily but don't do as well against super heavy armored behemoths. I really would like there to be a weapon that's like an 88 though.....Guardsmen do not like having to get close to the big scary thing in order to melta it.

Melissia wrote:Think about this before you do it.

Do you really want Guard to get S10 lascannons, too? And theirs are cheaper and more numerous.

Yes, yes I would. Of course I play Guard, so my view might be skewed.

Ugh. You probably are also the IG player who thinks Manticores are perfect, and Valks/Vendettas are a "balanced" edition to the IG Codex.

Che-vito wrote:
Ugh. You probably are also the IG player who thinks Manticores are perfect, and Valks/Vendettas are a "balanced" edition to the IG Codex.

Manticores ARE awesome, and they're rather nicely balanced with only AP4, not enough to kill Marines. Valks/Vendettas are massively underpriced, but I don't use them. My fluff doesn't fit with them. Besides, just because I wish we had something doesn't mean that I'm all for cheesing out the codex. I don't think lascannons should be S10, but hey since it was brought up why not make a joke that I wouldn't mind that? I also wouldn't mind my Lemans being AV14 all around, and Vanquisher's auto-hitting, but it doesn't mean I agree that it'd be balanced and fair.

Why do people call a LRBT An "Av14 hull"?

It is Av 14 on ONE side, not all.