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Dashofpepper wrote:I can't speak for anyone else, but I'll be egotistical enough to say that I think I'm an exceptional player, and that the lists we play have far less to do with winning than the generals behind them. How about you assemble your fiercest army, and I'll break out the absolute worst codex in 40k. Meet me on Vassal for a game; phasing me out should be a cinch, right?

I guess that depends, do you have a real codex now, and do you know the rules?

reds8n wrote:There's much more vital things we can snarl and hate each other over, like those poor fools who, delusionally, claim that Marvel is superior to DC.. truly sad the depths of some people's folly.

Uhm...Marvel is better than DC....

X-Men forever!

whitedragon wrote:
Uhm...Marvel is better than DC....

X-Men forever!

I concur.

...man, you don't ban anyone for ages and then two come along at once....

X men.. pfft.. poor mans Doom Patrol.

[/hijack]

At least x-men don't pull cellophane S's off their costumes to throw at people. And when they hit, they don't even do anything.

... nor do they have repairthegreatwallofchinavision .

The X men have , frequently ,nearly been killed by Arcade , a man whose sole power is to open vaguely threatening amusement parks.

..but lets not divert this thread any further anyway

@reds8n

Hahaha, ah yes, that is EXACTLY what I really meant!

Let them nay sayers say their nays!

Rankings HQ is fun.

You all realize that Batman and the Joker by themselves easily carry DC right?

Thread further diverted...

@Spacecurves

How many people attended the 40k tournament for Da Boyz last year? I'm curious as you seem to have a little bit of aggression toward some events. A 30 person 5 game event does have merit if the players there are of a higher caliber. The only way to get accurate results is for everyone to send in all 5 game events and see what happens. As it stands basically as soon as you attend 3+ 5 game events your going to be in the top twenty if your not a bad player. But from what I've seen most of the 5 game events so far have sent in their results. They haven't added in the West Coast conquest events yet or BoLScon (both of which were submitted) so we'll see another shift in the rankings pretty soon.

I like how you assume Adpeticon is better where I have a far better chance of pulling a 2-0 guy that isn't nearly as good as they could be at a smaller event since it's a 3 game event. Next year it'll be better as they'll be running a true GT style (i.e. more than 3 games) event so maybe it'll be worth more.

@CaptZach

You do realize that only 3 of the events you attend a year count right? That's the balancer for people attending a ton of RTT's with 10 people. They also are worth far less points than a 5 game event.

@Petre

How man 5+ game events have had more than 50 people this year? Nova and Wargamescon. Oh and I think that SVDM pulled in just over 50. Broadside Bash had 48. So there were 4 events this year (to my knowledge) that were 5+ game events with over 50 people.

But yes, the rankings don't fill out till everyone hits 3+ 5 Game events. So if your not hitting more than 2 5 game events don't cry if your not ranking. Think of it as the beginnings of a national ranking system that people could use (at certain style of events) as a seeding system.

@Topic

Don't get me wrong. I recognize that this thing is still in it's infancy. I recognize that by basically attending 3 5 game events your gonna rank pretty decent as long as you don't totally suck. I also think it's a fun and neat tool. If I truly believed it was a be all end all for rankings I wouldn't have been taking my Counts-As Daemons to every event since I won my Golden Ticket. I'd have been running wolves all year and would probably have quite a few higher placings. Oh and the Nova results were input wrong so there will probably be a slight change on the standing based on that.

Hulksmash wrote:@Petre

How man 5+ game events have had more than 50 people this year? Nova and Wargamescon. Oh and I think that SVDM pulled in just over 50. Broadside Bash had 48. So there were 4 events this year (to my knowledge) that were 5+ game events with over 50 people.

But yes, the rankings don't fill out till everyone hits 3+ 5 Game events. So if your not hitting more than 2 5 game events don't cry if your not ranking. Think of it as the beginnings of a national ranking system that people could use (at certain style of events) as a seeding system.

Strangely enough, it's looking like Da Grand Waaagh is going to have 60-70 people for their 40k event. I wouldn't have guessed; I hope most of them show up.

Awesome, then this year they'll be event #4 that did this year

I hope most show up as well. Anything that helps grow the hobby and get people out playing each other is good for the hobby. And let's face it. Playing on an Aircraft Carrier is pretty bad a**. If it wasn't such a haul and I had the cash I'd be there this year for it

I will be there!

It looks like unless people cancel, there will not be much (any?) room for more folks to play 40k. A friend said he signed up a bit late and was told they were full.

Not sure about it, but it does look like a boatload of people. One way or another.

Ooops, on topic:
It think it's great, and congratulations to those listed.
I am glad it is starting somewhere.
Maybe one of these days I will be on (the bottom of) that list--I am trying to attend as many tourneys as I can now.
They are some of the most fun and friendly learning experiences around.

CptZach wrote:Or maybe its because all it really tells us is who has the ability to travel to the most random tournaments or who attends tournaments that actually submit their rankings.

Until basically all tournaments submit rankings to something like this, it really tells us nothing.

By your own admission people who play crappy armies are near the top. What does that tell you about the validity of this?

(no offense to the players, but you yourself seem to think their lists are not optimized)

I'm sorry, I don't care how good you are, if you bring a bad list to a tournament, you shouldn't be walking away with a high finish in any competitive environment.

Try doing that in MTG or something. Yea, doesn't happen.

No offense to MTG or the game itself, but people that plays MTG either copies the best deck and then goes to a PTQ, where is the orinigal in that?.

Hulksmash wrote:

@Petre

How man 5+ game events have had more than 50 people this year? Nova and Wargamescon. Oh and I think that SVDM pulled in just over 50. Broadside Bash had 48. So there were 4 events this year (to my knowledge) that were 5+ game events with over 50 people.

But yes, the rankings don't fill out till everyone hits 3+ 5 Game events. So if your not hitting more than 2 5 game events don't cry if your not ranking. Think of it as the beginnings of a national ranking system that people could use (at certain style of events) as a seeding system.

Absolutely. Just going off of what RHQ uses as the determinant. Not faulting 'the scene' or anything. I agree with you whole-heartedly. It is the beginning.

Most of my objections were that it was the be all and end all. Right now, just as you said, it is the folks who hit 3+ 5 game events, regardless of standing.

@Petre

But I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the top 20 that actually think it's the be all-end all. It's just funny that a lot of people respond like we think it's the greatest thing when we mostly just think it's a fun and neat tool that we hope can grow into a true rating system.

I've never been able to wrap my head around the venom that people have for projects that attempt to unify the hobby. You look the INAT FAQ, and these rankings, and you see people just raging against them. It's useful for what it does, and everybody acknowledges the flaws and is working to improve it. I don't get the hate.

@Polonius

Exactly! Don't hate, appreciate!

It's a start and it is fun to check it out on occasion. Why people get so mad just baffles me.

I am hoping to be at Da Grand Waggh! to get my first taste of NorCal gaming in years, so I should be seeing you guys there.

How come you guys can all jump in the thread and joke about how great you are, but if others come into the thread and joke about how stupidly bias the thing is, we are raging and hating?


Also, offtopic, INAT does not bring this hobby together, it divides it.


Rankings HQ at least doesn't really do anything negative to the hobby, its just not very accurate at truly showing the best 40k players.

There MUST be a reason why there are countless GTs everywhere except the Southwest. *sigh*

Spacecurves wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:Mmmmm... beer. Maybe I should.


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Kirasu wrote:Rankings that only use select tournament results are serious business

Nope. Just fun. IIRC the way the events are selected is just by the TO sending in results, right? So there's nothing exclusive about it.

Exactly, Rankings HQ is currently not meaningful. It has the potential to be an accurate ranking of players in each country, but it isn't there yet.

Take for example the guy currently in second. He has played in 6 tournaments which add to his "score", 4 of which had less than 30 people in them. A tournament with less than 30 people means precisely nothing when it comes to establishing player skill. Furthermore, lots of the best events don't even bother to submit their results, it isn't worth their time.

In fact, in order to have the rankings mean much of anything, they need to only use a handful of events, the very best and biggest in the nation. Adepticon, Wargames Con, Da Boyz GT, next years Nova Open, etc. There are really only 5-6 events that deserve to have their results counted when it comes to comparing national level players.

Now let me add a disclaimer here that nothing I say above is meant to slur smaller events or the players who are currently on Rankings HQ. Alex, who is currently number 1 on RHQ, is a great player, all the best players in the country know that, but we don't know that from his Rankings HQ position, we know it from observing the meaningful tournaments he has won!

No those tournaments you mentioned just have the most buzz about them at the moment. There are many tournaments that are at the level of 40 to 60 people and 5 games that draw quite a lot of good players. What RankingHQ does is reward those that have the money to make it to the bigger tournaments and go to many different ones. Certain players and we know many of them will travel across the country to play in multiple large tournaments. They have decided this is how they wish to spend their money. By entering a lot of tournaments a good player has the chance to hit a good score at 1 or more of these events. However there are just as good players in the country that just dont have the $$ to fly around and hit a lot of these tournaments.


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Mannahnin wrote:Go Alex! Representing for Cold Steel Mercs. As is Matt, rounding out the top 5. Go team go!

Hrm. Looks like the Iron Man event where I won my ticket isn't listed. May need to ask someone about that...

Hope you are going to adepticon this year. I am looking forward to a rematch. Maybe next time you won't steal the initiative on me and than hit me with your lash

Polonius wrote:Why live in the reality of being the 140th 66th best player in the country when you can enjoy winning every local tourney on one's personal blog?

For the way certain people post (or used to post on Dakka), I'd have expected him to be top-10 on the list.

OTOH, I see a bunch of names on the front page, and think that they're just great guys. Gratz to the SoCal crowd on the first page!

Dude, guys, really?

None of us besides Dash is saying how good of a player they are.

We go to tournaments because we LIKE to. Or at least that is why I do.

I could care less about my national ranking. If I am at the top of the list, cool! If not, who cares?

It's just for fun. Something to talk about with friends. Bragging rights amongst your buddies, nothing more.

Some of you guys come in to be nothing but negative. Meaningless negativity contributes nothing. You want a better system? Offer constructive criticism to the guys at Rankings HQ. Make your own system. Do SOMETHING beyond trash talking the hard work of a group of people who took time and money to give us Rankings HQ.

@Sabote

Sorry broski, but that argument holds not water. If someone doesn't come to the tournaments, for any reason, then they aren't going to be counted. Tournaments, warts and all, are the only objective system we have to determine who the best player was on a given day within given parameters.

If someone doesn't come to the game but sits on the sidelines saying, well I'm better than the field, that proves nothing. Anyone can talk a big game. You have to come out and prove it for it to be anything more than a lot of big talk.

If someone can't afford to play in tournaments, that stinks. If it is important to you, get your financials in order and make it happen. But saying: your system doesn't count because it doesn't take into consideration the players who don't compete is beyond silly.

And again: RANKINGS HQ IS A FUN SITE, NOTHING MORE!

None of us look at it as anything other than a cool way to gauge our relative performance to other tournament gamers. It's for a laugh.

Word.

Proceed with your hating on the game, yo.


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@John

Thanks bro! SoCal has 3 that I know off hand in the top 10. And Brad and Dave are awesome guys to play, they are nice while kicking your butt!

sabote wrote:What RankingHQ does is reward those that have the money to make it to the bigger tournaments and go to many different ones

Really? How so? There is a reward? Or do you mean that posting makes you famous and that should be counted as one?

That would go a long way to explain some posts I have read. . .

Reecius wrote:Dude, guys, really?

None of us besides Dash is saying how good of a player they are.

We go to tournaments because we LIKE to. Or at least that is why I do.

I don't think anyone is 'hating' on you guys. (at least not me.) They are talking about the rating system that generates the rankings. Amusingly, most of the responses were to Dash, but that's just because he's a magnet for controversy

kirsanth wrote:

sabote wrote:What RankingHQ does is reward those that have the money to make it to the bigger tournaments and go to many different ones

Really? How so? There is a reward? Or do you mean that posting makes you famous and that should be counted as one?

That would go a long way to explain some posts I have read. . .

Unless you are fortunate to live near many of the 100 plus tournaments you are flying. You will gain more points in the bigger tournaments than by winning the smaller ones.

As the site continues to grow and you are starting to see it now. More of the players that hit the larger tournaments in multiples are moving up. Its not like Austin, Chicago, Rochester... are close enough for everyone to drive. Add in hotel/food its a bit of money.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:

CptZach wrote:I'm sorry, I don't care how good you are, if you bring a bad list to a tournament, you shouldn't be walking away with a high finish in any competitive environment.

Try doing that in MTG or something. Yea, doesn't happen.

No offense to MTG or the game itself, but people that plays MTG either copies the best deck and then goes to a PTQ, where is the orinigal in that?

And people don't netlist 40k armies? "Leafblower Guard" sprang out of nothingness?

Either way, decks and armies don't play themselves - there's still pilot skill.

Or, by related analogy, I can put you in a Lamborghini capable of well over 200 mph, against me in a Subaru WRX STi that tops out at 150 mph. If your skill isn't as good as your mouth, there's a damn good chance I get to watch you pass, spin and crash. And, depending on conditions (cold, snow, sleet, rain), my "slower" car is an auto-win.

CptZach wrote:How come you guys can all jump in the thread and joke about how great you are, but if others come into the thread and joke about how stupidly bias the thing is, we are raging and hating?

Whose said anything about being great? I mean, really? I think Reecius pointed out that he might be moving up, but that's about it.

Also, offtopic, INAT does not bring this hobby together, it divides it.

And that's my point. Why? there are aren't black shirted thugs forcing players to adopt it. The reaction to it, however, veers from nerd rage to genuine apoplexy. It's a tool. Use it, don't use it, but trust me - the first time you play at a new store and they spin some rules interpretation at you (mine recently was that drop pods cant' scatter off a table edge) you start to see the value in knowing what's going on ahead of time.

No human being agrees with more than 70% of the rulings in the INAT, but the point isn't that some rulings are off: it's that this hobby is filled with sad little man children that feel the need to knock down any attempt to build the hobby bigger than rolling the same three noobs in Bubba's Gamin' Shack.







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pretre wrote: Amusingly, most of the responses were to Dash, but that's just because he's a magnet for controversy

Hey, it's all our fault. We don't understand that he's hilarious, and instead we've all agree to be mean to him on the internet.

Reecius:

You go to tournaments to have fun. I go to tournaments looking for people who can teach me more about 40k. The best way that I can think of to find out who's better than me is to announce that I'm the best, and sift through the people who try proving me wrong looking for the diamonds in the rough.

Why do you think I'm always trying to game against you and Hulksmash? You two are among the best two gamers I've ever met that I have access to.

Reecius wrote:Dude, guys, really?

None of us besides Dash is saying how good of a player they are.

We go to tournaments because we LIKE to. Or at least that is why I do.

I could care less about my national ranking. If I am at the top of the list, cool! If not, who cares?

It's just for fun. Something to talk about with friends. Bragging rights amongst your buddies, nothing more.

Some of you guys come in to be nothing but negative. Meaningless negativity contributes nothing. You want a better system? Offer constructive criticism to the guys at Rankings HQ. Make your own system. Do SOMETHING beyond trash talking the hard work of a group of people who took time and money to give us Rankings HQ.

@Sabote

Sorry broski, but that argument holds not water. If someone doesn't come to the tournaments, for any reason, then they aren't going to be counted. Tournaments, warts and all, are the only objective system we have to determine who the best player was on a given day within given parameters.

If someone doesn't come to the game but sits on the sidelines saying, well I'm better than the field, that proves nothing. Anyone can talk a big game. You have to come out and prove it for it to be anything more than a lot of big talk.

If someone can't afford to play in tournaments, that stinks. If it is important to you, get your financials in order and make it happen. But saying: your system doesn't count because it doesn't take into consideration the players who don't compete is beyond silly.

And again: RANKINGS HQ IS A FUN SITE, NOTHING MORE!

None of us look at it as anything other than a cool way to gauge our relative performance to other tournament gamers. It's for a laugh.

Word.

Proceed with your hating on the game, yo.


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@John

Thanks bro! SoCal has 3 that I know off hand in the top 10. And Brad and Dave are awesome guys to play, they are nice while kicking your butt!

Really have you looked at the some of the top players? With a few exceptions they are going all across the country to include Europe.

Though how the number 1 person got a 2009 tournament in the list i have no idea.


Actually I like the site fine so no I am not hating I just understand its limitations.

CptZach wrote:How come you guys can all jump in the thread and joke about how great you are, but if others come into the thread and joke about how stupidly bias the thing is, we are raging and hating?

Because you're obviously not joking. Either that or doing a terrible job communicating that what you're saying is a joke.

Polonius wrote:

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pretre wrote: Amusingly, most of the responses were to Dash, but that's just because he's a magnet for controversy

Hey, it's all our fault. We don't understand that he's hilarious, and instead we've all agree to be mean to him on the internet.

You know, there are exactly three people on Dakka (used to be four) - that when I see their name in a thread, I could assume that they were posting negative stuff, and usually about me. You're one of them. I'll buy you a little hat that says "TROLL." You've earned it well over the last few months.