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Tantras wrote:I am seeing a lot of support for the Hellcannon, both here and in other threads... I know it's powerful, that's not in dispute, but is it not somewhat of a handicap having a weapon in your army that can trigger miscasts on your own most expensive/powerful features? In the case obviously, the Sorcerer.

Tantras, the heckcannon is really very very good in 8th edition, hence why it's an auto-pick in every chaos army out there - often times with its brother, the second heckcannon. I gamed with the HC for a year of 7th edition, where it was still good IMO but nothing like it is in 8th, and I am very happy now to switch over to a tizz giant for a change of pace. While the giant has his upsides for sure, it shouldn't be forgotten that it is a toy unit and will die in 3/4 of your games without doing much. Since you're playing 1500 pointers and up against less firepower (in theory), YMMV. If you want efficiency, take the hellcannon, because even if you don't shoot it (I stopped shooting mine for the last 6 months of 7th) it's still a ferociously tough unbreakable monster with S5 thunderstomp AND a 5+ 'handler' ward save. For less than a naked giant

- Salvage

Lets just say that I took out half of a group of 20 with one shot. So Yeah its pretty good and I would say worth the chances of a misfire. Even if you do misfire with luck you'll get "Thzzzzz"

Yeah, I'm gonna retract my call for the giant and say Hell Cannon. Now that they don't scatter, it's pure shenanigans. I am still trying to figure out if I'd be a bad person for taking two...

Glimpse The Void wrote:Yeah, I'm gonna retract my call for the giant and say Hell Cannon. Now that they don't scatter, it's pure shenanigans. I am still trying to figure out if I'd be a bad person for taking two...

They don't? I must've missed that when I skimmed them yesterday. Damn, that really is tempting.

and you get to have chaos dwarves in your army which is always good.

Glimpse The Void wrote:Yeah, I'm gonna retract my call for the giant and say Hell Cannon. Now that they don't scatter, it's pure shenanigans. I am still trying to figure out if I'd be a bad person for taking two...

Just checked the army list (and the errata) again. I can't seem to find anything about it not scattering. Can you provide a page reference or something, mate?

If that thing doesn't scatter, I'm writing to Jervis and it won't be nice !

I've now re-written my list to be much more efficient, in my own humble opinion. Would love C&C on the changes if possible.

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LORDS
**Sorcerer Lord** - 365
Level 4 Wizard
Mark of Tzeentch
Disc of Tzeentch
Golden Eye of Tzeentch
Blood of Tzeentch

HEROES
**Exalted Hero** - 145
Shield
Biting Blade
Necrotic Phylactery
Mark of Tzeentch
Favour of the Gods

CORE
**24 Chaos Marauders** - 184
Shields
Light Armour
Full Command
Mark of Tzeentch

**20 Chaos Warriors** - 405
Shields
Full Command
Banner of Rage
Mark of Tzeentch

**6 Chaos Hounds** - 36

SPECIAL
**Chaos Chariot** - 120

RARE
**Giant** - 245
Mark of Tzeentch

TOTAL: 1500pts.

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Thoughts?

thats looking better dude. chariot to plug gaps if things are going hairy or scare off small units. bigger warriors to make sure they get there. but can you have a lord in 1500 points ? though they were 2k only or is that old rules/army books

Battlecannon it phil wrote:thats looking better dude. chariot to plug gaps if things are going hairy or scare off small units. bigger warriors to make sure they get there. but can you have a lord in 1500 points ? though they were 2k only or is that old rules/army books

That's old rules, mate. You're allowed up to 25% of your points to go on Lords now, and another 25% on heroes if you want it, that's the only restriction. So 375pt cap for 1500pt games.

Glimpse The Void wrote:Now that they don't scatter, it's pure shenanigans.

Tantras wrote:Just checked the army list (and the errata) again. I can't seem to find anything about it not scattering. Can you provide a page reference or something, mate?

Corsair wrote:If that thing doesn't scatter, I'm writing to Jervis and it won't be nice !

The hellcannon does of course scatter - all stone throwers do, thank the dark gods! - but I think Glimpse was getting excited about the no guessing, no partials combo of nastiness that just gets worse when you've got a 5(10) template

Dig the list Tantras, loving that the giant is still in despite the HC gushing above. Only change I'd make is to drop the exalted's biting blade so he can get a 5+ parry ward in combat, and use the 5 extra points for ... no idea, your enchanted item slot is gone Something any way.

- Salvage

That looks good, but I personally wouldn't put the Banner of Rage on a unit of Tzeentch Warriors. It would get rid of their nice 5+ parry save. I would instead drop the banner and the Biting Blades like Salvage said and give the unit the Blasted Standard for added protection.

Good call on the biting blade, that's twice I've made that oversight (Twice in this thread, in fact, hahah!). I shall look for 5pts worth of goods elsewhere.

WarWizard, the banner of rage would negate the parry save? How so? Sorry, still becoming familiar with the rules (see above error).

Frenzied units can't parry, as they're too busy frothing and flailing. Good call WarWizard, I too would suggest some other magic banner. That extra 5 points means you can get blasted standard instead and make that unit really unattractive to enemy shooters ...

Or you could use 15 of the 40 points to upgrade the golden eye to talisman of preservation, reflecting the fact that there are a lot of ways to hurt a super important level 4 that aren't technically missiles. Then 25 points for a banner (warbanner fits nicely and works vs everybody in the game, or the rapturous standard in case they lose somehow).

Or MoT on the chariot for great themey-ness? And a pesky 5 points still left

EDIT
Balllllls your level 4 doesn't really have much % cap left. Nevermind on the talisman of preservation, if blood is staying on the dude. Sub-2k lists, man ...

- Salvage

Ahh that makes sense, I totally missed that, but I can't complain. So, lose the biting blade, swap the banner, jiggle about some equipment perhaps.

I have some reading to do.

Thanks to everyone that has participated thus far, it's been unbelievably helpful!