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Lol, obviously how much fun your opponent has is your own personal responsibility alone.

Help me out - what exactly does the Storm Banner do?

Storm Banner - 50 pts Skaven Banner

One use only, activate on either turn. No shooting allowed while active, non-magical warmachines need a 4+ to be able to fire. At the start of each player turn, you roll. On a 4+ it deactivates.

I played an empire army with maxxed war machine for 'ard boyz, and I think it's actually a bad idea.

Sure, you can shoot the pants off most things... but whatever makes it to you is going to rip those warmachines up!

I think a balanced approach is actually more effective...

That said, I have lots of dryads, and they don't fear mortars or cannons although my treemen sure died quickly enough...

I also came out with a minor loss due to his knights owning! If he'd had another counter-charge unit, he might have gotten a major win. Once you take the absolute maximum war machines, your other phases will suffer dramatically, and you'll already have killed everything that can easily be killed with artillery... but have nothing to answer things that cannot be (such as my dryads ).

I think that is a side-effect of 3000 points level games; you can't actually shoot everything before it reaches you. Loading up on the War Machines is incredibly effective at lower points.

Good point, Fearspect- I think I had more trouble dealing with a single cannon at 1000 points in a friendly matchup, than the boatloads that he took at 3000 points...

I played an empire list in the finals of the first round of ard boyz.

I dont mind war machines as he had 9.
2 great cannon
2 morter
2 rocket battery
3 hell blasters

I dont mind warmachines. What I do mind is 3 dam hellblasters. lmao. I was playing tomb kings and was forced to shoot the whole game and stay out of hellblaster range. Their was confusion and my opponet was allowed to re-roll the hellblaster. I looked it up later and this was done incorrectly but I dont hold my opponet at fault. It was my responsibility to challenge it or not.

Either way. I ended up winning. Frankly that many warmachines isnt too succesful if you know how to play it. Take 15 for all i care.

What I hate seeing is a Dam DE sorc with that Dam Dagger in a unit of a million spearmen. lol

Meh i used to think war machines were cheese...

Then an empire player on turn one

Blew up 2/4 cannons, a mortar, and 1/2 hellblasters...

I had won the game and I hadnt even gone yet.

It's simple: take one less than you can possibly fit in your list. Then if they say 8 (for example) is too many, you can fall back on "At least I didn't bring nine!"

ShivanAngel wrote:Meh i used to think war machines were cheese...

Then an empire player on turn one

Blew up 2/4 cannons, a mortar, and 1/2 hellblasters...

I had won the game and I hadnt even gone yet.

And that's why the smart Empire player will bring 2 or 3 engineers there.

As far as I'm concerned, I agree with RiTides and Fearspect. I think there is such a thing as "too many" war machines. At 2K, you'll only need 2 great cannons to kill everything vulnerable to cannon fire, and 3 mortars will do a great job thinning out those large blocks of men. And that's pushing the limit. You may be able to take one volley gun or rocket battery there, but I'd say that's it. Any more, and it's just super redundancy and negligence of the rest of your army.

As far is it being cheese, there is no cheese.
In all seriousness, think about what you'd still enjoy playing against. If you wouldn't want to play against your army, it's probably got too many war machines.

Play whatever you want there is no cheese.

So I guess taking two cannons and an Organ gun in a 1k point game was out of line?

-evil laugh-

Does that even fit with percentages? (I'm assuming the cannons are special for dwarves?)

That might be a bit OTT... as discussed above, it's easier to absord the warmachine damage at a higher point level. At 1000, that might not make for the most thrilling of games at least, when you get first turn!

CAnnons honestly dont bother me that much ( Except when im playing my daemons.... Greater daemon dead on turn one is an auto loss).

But on a skaven list, sure, shoot into those giant blocks and kill 5/30-40 a turn...

If you field more than are legal, that's cheesy..............

There is no cheese, there is only points.

or


Know Cheese, know win. No Cheese, no win.

Take care

Quick Question. Its my understanding that the engineer allows you to reroll the artillery dice for the hellblaster in 8th. The part that said he couldn't was errata out. Or at least that is how I read it.

Tomb King wrote:I played an empire list in the finals of the first round of ard boyz.

I dont mind war machines as he had 9.
2 great cannon
2 morter
2 rocket battery
3 hell blasters

I dont mind warmachines. What I do mind is 3 dam hellblasters. lmao. I was playing tomb kings and was forced to shoot the whole game and stay out of hellblaster range. Their was confusion and my opponet was allowed to re-roll the hellblaster. I looked it up later and this was done incorrectly but I dont hold my opponet at fault. It was my responsibility to challenge it or not.

Either way. I ended up winning. Frankly that many warmachines isnt too succesful if you know how to play it. Take 15 for all i care.

What I hate seeing is a Dam DE sorc with that Dam Dagger in a unit of a million spearmen. lol

I thought 8th would limist this somehow with a limitation on choices. Unless Empire allows these as troops.

I would say 5 choices at this level would be ok.

Or just take 3 Steam Tanks and want your opponents' minds melt.

@AF: 8E clamps down on choices with 0-3 Special by type and 0-2 Rare by type. And high-cost choices like Dragons and Steam Tanks and Special Characters are hit by the 25% cap.

For 2250, the breakpoints are 562 pts min/max by category, so 5 Warmachines might be:

1 Steam Tank (need 2400+ for 2)
2 Helblasters / Helstorms
2 Cannon / Mortars

This leaves space for up to 30 Greatswords as Specials, after filling 560 pts of Core.

Of course, that kinda pinches Characters, but should still be OK.

I see people talking about taking Steam Tanks. I suppose those are non-Teclis metagames.

People are still playing those this edition? They really feel like that have lost their luster...

Toughness 10 and the ability to inflict Impact hits makes it a viable option. It is true that a couple of spells will quickly end your fun and games, but that is going to be a very rare occurance.

The fact of the matter is that for many people "cheesy" just means "I lost to you." Lots of people don't understand how to make lists that can truly handle all comers, and when they get beat they don't realize that it's their own damned fault.

I'll chime in with the crowd that's saying too much warmachine spam is not even effective. I used to think, as a couple people have said, that it was the only way empire could actually do any killing, but since then I've discovered greatswords and great-weapon knights with priests and modified my opinion.

My 2200 list contains six war machines (2 each of helblaster, mortar, cannon) and has been very effective so far. If you see disgusting warmachine spam across the table, just hope that you remembered to bring something speedy to go after it all.

Don mondo has it right...

lowix wrote:Quick Question. Its my understanding that the engineer allows you to reroll the artillery dice for the hellblaster in 8th. The part that said he couldn't was errata out. Or at least that is how I read it.

That is my understanding as well.