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MeanGreenStompa wrote:
No, they just peddle drastically partisan pantomime masquerading as 'news' to further the personal interests of their multi-trillionare master inciting hate and misery on a daily basis.

CNN and MSNBC is just as liberal as FoxNews is conservative.

Frazzled wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Actually it's more because I don't know enough about those religions to mock them.

I grew up Roman-Catholic. I know Christianity pretty well, thus it's easier to draw a line equating the absurdity of an organized, accepted belief system to the absurdity of a fringe conspiracy theory.

And you compound it with that statement, calling Christianity absurd. Way to go there. Do you spit on nuns too?

So, using logic, it's easier to accept the idea of an omnipotent being that knocked up a woman, leaving her husband and her to raise the child--then tells the kid he has to martyr himself because daddy made an oopsie?

You can see why people of other faiths find Christianity absurd, right?

It's all about faith and your beliefs.

Kanluwen wrote:Or hey, how about those ridiculously crazy people who think a deity sent his flesh and blood progeny to the material realm to die for our supposed "sins"? Crazy, right?

A Cheap shot Kanluwen, and an ignorant one at that..and you know it. Welcome to the ignore list.

GG

Kanluwen wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Actually it's more because I don't know enough about those religions to mock them.

I grew up Roman-Catholic. I know Christianity pretty well, thus it's easier to draw a line equating the absurdity of an organized, accepted belief system to the absurdity of a fringe conspiracy theory.

And you compound it with that statement, calling Christianity absurd. Way to go there. Do you spit on nuns too?

So, using logic, it's easier to accept the idea of an omnipotent being that knocked up a woman, leaving her husband and her to raise the child--then tells the kid he has to martyr himself because daddy made an oopsie?

You can see why people of other faiths find Christianity absurd, right?

It's all about faith and your beliefs.

You didn't answer the question - to top this off are you going to go and find some nuns and spit on them or what? Walk into a mosque and explain to them the absurdity of their religion? Or are you just going to - again- make fun of Christians?
But thats ok, its just Christians.

Way to up the persecution complex, Frazzled.

I do not know enough about the Muslim faith to poke fun at their beliefs. I poke fun at what I know, which is Christianity having been raised as a Catholic.

Kanluwen wrote:Way to up the persecution complex, Frazzled.

I do not know enough about the Muslim faith to poke fun at their beliefs. I poke fun at what I know, which is Christianity having been raised as a Catholic.

All I see is what you post, which are multiple attacks on Christians, thus proving my point.

Yet it's okay for you to equate all Muslims with terrorists?

*sniffs the air*
I smell a double standard here.

Kanluwen wrote:
So, using logic, it's easier to accept the idea of an omnipotent being that knocked up a woman, leaving her husband and her to raise the child--then tells the kid he has to martyr himself because daddy made an oopsie?

You can see why people of other faiths find Christianity absurd, right?

It's all about faith and your beliefs.

Couldn't resist responding to the ignorance of this post. You show a complete lack of understanding of what the Birth of Christ was. Mary, the mother of Jesus wasn't, as insulting as you put it. "knocked up by an "omnipotent being" That implies some sort of sexual intercourse took place. The conception of Jesus was a miracle, outside of the natural sexual act, in fact Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived.

Your "then tells the kid to martyr himself because daddy made an oopsie" is another ignorant statement. Jesus came into the world willingly, in fact the Bible says that He "became flesh" so He was as God the Father is, a spirit. His whole purpose coming onto the earth was to be the sacrificial Lamb of God.

As far as people considering the story of Jesus, as being absurd. God "chose the foolish things of this world, to confound the wise" (1Cor.1:27)

GG

And here's me thinking Christianity extols the virtues of patience, understanding, tranquillity and tolerance...

Kanluwen has used fairly flippant commentary, he tends to do that from his posts in general, but unlike those funsters amongst the more hardline in Islam, who might offer up death threats to those they perceive as mocking their religion, Christians who encounter this would demonstrate those principals I listed above and continue to engage him with level heads, kindness and patient teaching. They would rise above the notion of offence at a slight in his writing and instead focus on the questions he asking and the points he illustrating, all with the serenity of knowing God in their hearts.

Or did I get that bit wrong?

Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:but another thing I don't get is why do they HAVE to build the Mosque there?

Because they own that building, not one in a different location.

Bill O'Reilly on the View, now that merits a suicide bombing.

generalgrog wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
So, using logic, it's easier to accept the idea of an omnipotent being that knocked up a woman, leaving her husband and her to raise the child--then tells the kid he has to martyr himself because daddy made an oopsie?

You can see why people of other faiths find Christianity absurd, right?

It's all about faith and your beliefs.

Couldn't resist responding to the ignorance of this post. You show a complete lack of understanding of what the Birth of Christ was. Mary, the mother of Jesus wasn't, as insulting as you put it. "knocked up by an "omnipotent being" That implies some sort of sexual intercourse took place. The conception of Jesus was a miracle, outside of the natural sexual act, in fact Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived.

Yes, I'm well aware that the miraculous conception is, y'know...a miracle.

The point of the original statement was to illustrate that you can make any organized beliefs(conspiracy theories, religions, or hell you can even make sports) sound absurd, and that just because something is accepted as mainstream doesn't make it any less absurd.
It wasn't intended as a specific slight against Christianity. It's called "an example of experience".

Your "then tells the kid to martyr himself because daddy made an oopsie" is another ignorant statement. Jesus came into the world willingly, in fact the Bible says that He "became flesh" so He was as God the Father is, a spirit. His whole purpose coming onto the earth was to be the sacrificial Lamb of God.

Again, I'm well aware of how and why Jesus died for the sins of man, and to redeem the wicked amongst us.

As far as people considering the story of Jesus, as being absurd. God "chose the foolish things of this world, to confound the wise" (1Cor.1:27)

GG

See above about "example".

Kanluwen wrote:Yet it's okay for you to equate all Muslims with terrorists?

*sniffs the air*
I smell a double standard here.

Must have missed this then:

Hordini wrote:


Yeah, nobody cares if you say Islamic radicals or Islamic fundamentalists have committed acts of terrorism or whatever else. Just like in this video, people usually only get pissed (and rightly so) when others start using the term "Muslims" as shorthand for "Islamic extremists."

Agreed. Its unfair to slander an entire religion, nor is it accurate. Muslims did not destroy the towers. islamic fundamentalist terrorists did.

The Oklahoma city bomber was a poor example for Goldberg to use. There is difference between those who do terrible things and don't try to justify their actions as praiseworthy by their religion and those who do terrible things and believe they are honoring their religion. The abortion clinic bomber is one of the very few examples that would have made sense.

/

I also noticed that Kanluwen said the difference between abortion bombers and the 9/11 bombers was that the muslims had twisted their original belief set. That is wrong. I suggest to you that the differences in delusion necessary between the two are very slight.

But then you're still equating terrorists with Islam.

Unacceptable. They're terrorists, plain and simple.

generalgrog wrote:

Couldn't resist responding to the ignorance of this post. You show a complete lack of understanding of what the Birth of Christ was. Mary, the mother of Jesus wasn't, as insulting as you put it. "knocked up by an "omnipotent being" That implies some sort of sexual intercourse took place. The conception of Jesus was a miracle, outside of the natural sexual act, in fact Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived.

Your "then tells the kid to martyr himself because daddy made an oopsie" is another ignorant statement. Jesus came into the world willingly, in fact the Bible says that He "became flesh" so He was as God the Father is, a spirit. His whole purpose coming onto the earth was to be the sacrificial Lamb of God.

As far as people considering the story of Jesus, as being absurd. God "chose the foolish things of this world, to confound the wise" (1Cor.1:27)

GG

That's according to your faith and not actually backed by any empirical evidence. For instance, the hebrew word used to describe Mary simply means "young woman" not "virgin." Also the eyewitness accounts of Jesus that christianity is based on were written years after the fact, and condradict eachother in many cases.
Not meaning to provoke here, it's obvious that you and Frazz are taking serious offence, I just don't understand why expressing negative and sarcastic conotations towards christianity deserves such vitriolic respnse.
There are people who belive 9/11 was a government operation, people who believe the moon landing was faked, you don't hesitate to scoff at and belittle them. I find all religion to be just as idiotic, and having been raised as a christian and at one point training to be a minister, I have the most experience with the foolishness of christianity. It's what I know.
Just because it makes you feel good, or it's been around for a long time, doesn't make it a good thing. I also find it very insulting that you see the need to prosletyze and quote bible verses in this forum. You call Kanluwen ignorant, but from my point of view your following quotations from the bible are just as ignorant. I understand the need to defend yourself, but if you have to throw the beatitudes out the window to do so, then it kind of defeats the whole purpose.

Kanluwen wrote:But then you're still equating terrorists with Islam.

Unacceptable. They're terrorists, plain and simple.

Neither. They are religious fundamentalists who use terrorism to further their goals.

Frazzled wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:But then you're still equating terrorists with Islam.

Unacceptable. They're terrorists, plain and simple.

Neither. They are religious fundamentalists who use terrorism to further their goals.

Not really. They use religion as a rallying cry to further their goals, consolidate their power, and even as a shield to hide behind when called to account for their actions.

Kanluwen wrote:But then you're still equating terrorists with Islam.

Unacceptable. They're terrorists, plain and simple.

Motivation is important. Their motivation was the victory of the Faithful over the infidel.



What you're proposing is like calling the hamburglar the burglar. Which, of course, I can not accept.



===

Here's something I found that I cannot justify a new thread for.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/1015/Bacon-attack-on-an-American-mosque-prank-or-hate-crime

Now that is a crime. You can't waste good bacon like that! Bacon!!!!

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Or did I get that bit wrong?

Nice try thier MGS..but this is the internet..where people hide behind their computer monitors and say terrible things just to try and get a rise out of people. I handle them by just ignoring them.

but nice try...

GG

generalgrog wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Or did I get that bit wrong?

Nice try thier MGS..but this is the internet..where people hide behind their computer monitors and say terrible things just to try and get a rise out of people. I handle them by just ignoring them.

but nice try...

GG

Yes, because using your system of belief as an example of absurdity is such a tragedy. Someone call Geneva, I think I violated his basic human rights!

You and I both know there'd be none of this if I'd use Islam as an example of absurdity.

But you didn't use it, did you?

Nope, because I used what I know rather than making half-arsed assumptions about a religion I know virtually nothing about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and that's also a great example of the double standard of Western society.

There's freedom of religion and speech with people mailing packages filled to the brim with bacon to centers of worship, tossing severed body parts(wtf? seriously? This wasn't prosecuted why?) of animals into a center of worship, and verbally/physically assaulting people over their religions in public centers. Some of those people performing those acts are even praised as "defenders of freedom".

But may all the deities above help you if you mock Christianity.

Lint wrote:
That's according to your faith and not actually backed by any empirical evidence. For instance, the hebrew word used to describe Mary simply means "young woman" not "virgin." Also the eyewitness accounts of Jesus that christianity is based on were written years after the fact, and condradict eachother in many cases.
Not meaning to provoke here, it's obvious that you and Frazz are taking serious offence, I just don't understand why expressing negative and sarcastic conotations towards christianity deserves such vitriolic respnse.
There are people who belive 9/11 was a government operation, people who believe the moon landing was faked, you don't hesitate to scoff at and belittle them. I find all religion to be just as idiotic, and having been raised as a christian and at one point training to be a minister, I have the most experience with the foolishness of christianity. It's what I know.
Just because it makes you feel good, or it's been around for a long time, doesn't make it a good thing. I also find it very insulting that you see the need to prosletyze and quote bible verses in this forum. You call Kanluwen ignorant, but from my point of view your following quotations from the bible are just as ignorant. I understand the need to defend yourself, but if you have to throw the beatitudes out the window to do so, then it kind of defeats the whole purpose.

I called kanluwens comments ignorant because that is exactly what they were. Ignorance is not necessarily an insult. I myself am ignorant of how to create a fish curry and make it taste good. I'm ok with being ignorant about some things.

I see you are new here, and haven't partaken in our religious discussions before. We have talked about the reliability of the eyewitness accounts before. The fact is that the Gospels and the book of acts were written within 40 to 70 years of Jesus' death. That's not very long. You may as well say that vietnam vets or wwII veterans are unreliable.

GG

Kanluwen wrote:
Not really. They use religion as a rallying cry to further their goals, consolidate their power, and even as a shield to hide behind when called to account for their actions.

You don't believe they're sincere? The ones sacrificing their very lives for the cause? I agree with you that there are bigwigs in places of religious authority and people who use religion as a means to an end. But come on, there are muslim terrorists. I as a Christian cop to having a few, what's the big deal? Since when do we need to blur the facts?

Kanluwen wrote:Nope, because I used what I know rather than making half-arsed assumptions about a religion I know virtually nothing about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and that's also a great example of the double standard of Western society.

There's freedom of religion and speech with people mailing packages filled to the brim with bacon to centers of worship, tossing severed body parts(wtf? seriously? This wasn't prosecuted why?) of animals into a center of worship, and verbally/physically assaulting people over their religions in public centers. Some of those people performing those acts are even praised as "defenders of freedom".

But may all the deities above help you if you mock Christianity.

Thats being prosecuted. Whats your problem.

If you mock christianity nothing happens to you.

generalgrog wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Or did I get that bit wrong?

Nice try thier MGS..but this is the internet..where people hide behind their computer monitors and say terrible things just to try and get a rise out of people. I handle them by just ignoring them.

but nice try...

GG

Sorry, you lost me there, does the tolerance and teaching and so on not apply to dealing with people on the internet?

Also the 'nice try' bit, I'm not sure how I'm reading that, I hope you understand my post was not an incitement, I was asking a genuine question and raising a genuine point. 'Nice try' seems to sound like I'm trying to be clever, I'm just suggesting that the moral high ground might work far better than becoming upset with what kanluwen is saying.

/peace

MGS..It's not about being "upset" It's about not tolerating abusive, insulting, ignorant statements designed to insult, not to inform, or for any benefit whatsoever. I'm perfectly fine with reasoned debate.. just not with insults.

GG

Scrabb wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Not really. They use religion as a rallying cry to further their goals, consolidate their power, and even as a shield to hide behind when called to account for their actions.

You don't believe they're sincere? The ones sacrificing their very lives for the cause? I agree with you that there are bigwigs in places of religious authority and people who use religion as a means to an end. But come on, there are muslim terrorists. I as a Christian cop to having a few, what's the big deal? Since when do we need to blur the facts?

You already made the point about motivation being everything.

Do you call the American soldiers who fought in Iraq "oilmongering adventurers with a stake in paying back George Bush senior's vendetta against Saddam Hussein"?

Hell no, you don't.

When you're told that something is true and you don't have any real reason to disbelieve it...you don't question it.

And with organizations like Al Qaeda, they recruit very much like gangs do. They look for the uneducated, the poor, the people looking for somewhere to belong. They feed them bs fitted to match the recruit until there's no reason for their recruits to disbelieve it. They twist everything and remake it in an image that's useful to them.

Are the suicide bombers sincere in their beliefs as told to them? Yes. But it doesn't make them Muslim or Christian, not when they have to be told what their beliefs or the tenants of their faith are.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:And here's me thinking Christianity extols the virtues of patience, understanding, tranquillity and tolerance...

Kanluwen has used fairly flippant commentary, he tends to do that from his posts in general, but unlike those funsters amongst the more hardline in Islam, who might offer up death threats to those they perceive as mocking their religion, Christians who encounter this would demonstrate those principals I listed above and continue to engage him with level heads, kindness and patient teaching. They would rise above the notion of offence at a slight in his writing and instead focus on the questions he asking and the points he illustrating, all with the serenity of knowing God in their hearts.

Or did I get that bit wrong?

Well, I certainly hope and expect that at least some Christians would. That being said, keep in mind that not all Christians think exactly alike, and even among those that share very similar views, many will be at different points of spiritual development and maturity and due to those factors might be more or less likely to either "engage him with level heads" or take "offence at a slight in his writing."


Or maybe you were just trying to be flippant too?