Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

cadbren wrote:

Lexx wrote: As Khorne isn't ALL about blood. He is about martial ability and there seems to be a fair few warrior cults dedicated to that aspect of him.

Not really, he's about martial ability only insofar as it leads to bloodshed and violence. He is a god of anger and blood. The best trained warriors in the galaxy mean nothing to him if they don't constantly kill and maim, read the fluff. There's nothing to suggest Khorne cares about skill as a merit on its own.

I have to wonder though, why can't a group who follow some chaos god become "corrupted" with the teachings of the God Emperor and start to change over with all the problems that would cause?

Originally he was equally about martial prowess as he was about blood and skulls.

the fluff in Fantesy still follows this vein.

also, in Fantesy, Khain(eldar god) is widely viewed as an aspect of khorne and is actually worshipped with a more murderous streak then Khorne proper(witch elves)

the war between Khorne and Slaneesh was over pride.

cadbren wrote:

Lexx wrote: As Khorne isn't ALL about blood. He is about martial ability and there seems to be a fair few warrior cults dedicated to that aspect of him.

Not really, he's about martial ability only insofar as it leads to bloodshed and violence. He is a god of anger and blood. The best trained warriors in the galaxy mean nothing to him if they don't constantly kill and maim, read the fluff. There's nothing to suggest Khorne cares about skill as a merit on its own.

I have to wonder though, why can't a group who follow some chaos god become "corrupted" with the teachings of the God Emperor and start to change over with all the problems that would cause?

I guess the teachings of the God Emperor aren't as insidious as the Chaos Gods.

AgeOfEgos wrote:Don't be so harsh guys . Remember, this is a science fiction world and while finding the good in Khorne's soul is strange by fluff standards, there is nothing wrong with someone throwing out ideas and trying to make his army unique. I think that kind of thinking should be encouraged and makes for interesting armies!

To the OP, instead of 'good' perhaps you can fall back on the older Khorne Fluff where it was less "KILL MAIM BURN KILL KILL BLOOD" and more about martial pride and perfection. Perhaps your clan is de facto Chaos/Khorne...but not in the slaughter thousands for giggles manner. More of a Predators "Natural Law, Might Makes Right" following....

This would also open up Obliters, Havocs or whatever else you want to throw into your army. They just excel at what they specialize.

The important bit is in bold. this section of the forum is for serious debates on fluff (see the what is this for sticky). People are only saying that his idea makes no sense as to the fluff, creativity is one of the best things about this game, but if you want to on important foundation fluff, just make your own game in a different universe (you don't find lightsabers in star trek, vulcans in star wars, or james t kirk shagging any biped female in dune).

I would suggest having a space marine chapter on the edge of the imperium that has become more and more obsessed with martial ability and form a warrior cult (this would lead to having loads of close combat marines), but if he has a load of marines with khrone markings, either do alot of conversions or just keep them khrone.

Grey Templar wrote:Originally he was equally about martial prowess as he was about blood and skulls.

I'm not so sure about that. According to Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, "Khorne is the Power of Chaos in its aspect of mindless and absolute violence, destroying everything and everyone within its reach, slaying both friend and foe alike. [...] He is worshipped only in the act of killing, and his followers often fight as individuals, ignoring bonds of alliance and common faith when it suits them to do so.
"The code of Khorne is simple: blood and more blood. [...] The only way to gain favour with him is by killing enemies or friends, all the dead are equal in the eyes of Khorne.".
It also mentions that Khorne and Slaanesh are opposed because "[Khorne's] belief in pain and death is completely opposed to Slaanesh's principle of a life of unrestricted pleasure."

2nd edition's Codex: Chaos also holds that Khorne is the embodiment of "mindless and absolute violence", and even comments that "Khorne's followers may feel they can justify their life of slaughter in any number of ways through honour, bravery or martial pride. However, the most fanatical of Khorne's worshippers know that he desires only wild slaughter in his name and that all else is meaningless artifice".


Anyway, back on topic.
Kravus, what is it about Chaos that you don't like? We may be able to figure out a way to work around whatever it is.
And if you could assuage my curiosity, why did you collect a 3000 point Chaos army when you didn't like their background?

Æscholt wrote:Anyway, back on topic.
Kravus, what is it about Chaos that you don't like? We may be able to figure out a way to work around whatever it is.
And if you could assuage my curiosity, why did you collect a 3000 point Chaos army when you didn't like their background?

Thats the bit that confused me

Æscholt wrote:And if you could assuage my curiosity, why did you collect a 3000 point Chaos army when you didn't like their background?

This is really the $64,000 question.

Just throwing this or they could worship Khaine The Bloody Handed god. it has happened where Some chapters have fallen to worship eldar gods.

Asherian Command wrote:Just throwing this or they could worship Khaine The Bloody Handed god. it has happened where Some chapters have fallen to worship eldar gods.

Now that sounds very interesting as potential background for an army.

It has happened. Some chapters worship Khaine as their god. And use their pyschic powers very much like the eldar. Look at the bloody hands! Even though that is a horrible example as they are down to 500 marines! And they were annihilated for hersey.

Grey Templar wrote:

cadbren wrote:

Lexx wrote: As Khorne isn't ALL about blood. He is about martial ability and there seems to be a fair few warrior cults dedicated to that aspect of him.

Not really, he's about martial ability only insofar as it leads to bloodshed and violence. He is a god of anger and blood. The best trained warriors in the galaxy mean nothing to him if they don't constantly kill and maim, read the fluff. There's nothing to suggest Khorne cares about skill as a merit on its own.

I have to wonder though, why can't a group who follow some chaos god become "corrupted" with the teachings of the God Emperor and start to change over with all the problems that would cause?

Originally he was equally about martial prowess as he was about blood and skulls.

the fluff in Fantesy still follows this vein.

also, in Fantesy, Khain(eldar god) is widely viewed as an aspect of khorne and is actually worshipped with a more murderous streak then Khorne proper(witch elves)

the war between Khorne and Slaneesh was over pride.

Okay, thanks, I've not paid much attention to the Warhammerverse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:It has happened. Some chapters worship Khaine as their god. And use their pyschic powers very much like the eldar. Look at the bloody hands! Even though that is a horrible example as they are down to 500 marines! And they were annihilated for hersey.

I was going to say that they're at least doing better than the Crimson Fists but annihilated pretty much does them in. How do eldar use psychic powers differently to human psykers?

Asherian Command wrote:It has happened. Some chapters worship Khaine as their god. And use their pyschic powers very much like the eldar. Look at the bloody hands! Even though that is a horrible example as they are down to 500 marines! And they were annihilated for hersey.

where are any references to this chapter?

BluntmanDC wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:It has happened. Some chapters worship Khaine as their god. And use their pyschic powers very much like the eldar. Look at the bloody hands! Even though that is a horrible example as they are down to 500 marines! And they were annihilated for hersey.

where are any references to this chapter?

Its one of mine....

Ah so no actual official mention of this happening? Shame though.

I liked the way the models looked, I was pretty young when I started collecting. It was only in about 2009 that I started reading on dakka and ever opened a page of a codex. Its not even that I dont like chaos, more just im not able to encorporate any heroism or nobility into the fluff. Im also the kind of person that enjoys finding the good in an extremely bad thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asherian Command wrote:Just throwing this or they could worship Khaine The Bloody Handed god. it has happened where Some chapters have fallen to worship eldar gods.

I think I asked about that in another forum

You could always say that your CSM are ex-Red Corsairs who have gotten tired of Mr. Backhearts tyranical riegn and decided to fight for their previously forgotten cause (Humanity)
Though if they return to Imperial control they face death and if they return to Chaos space they face death so they are constantly on the run from both.
Instead of emphasising the bloodlust aspect of Khorne they emphasis the martial code of honour and strength but defending the weak instead.
Sort of crusading knights kind of thing.

Robin Hood-esque!

kravus master of Horus wrote:Robin Hood-esque!

Exactly that... except without the sheriff of Nottingham.
Actually you could say that there is an Inquisitor called Nottingham chasing them but that might detract from the grimdark.
Also they don't steal money.
But yeah the general do bad things to do good things.

Would the exsisting cannon/fluff allow me to do that or am I going to be bombed tonight for choosing this....

kravus master of Horus wrote:Would the exsisting cannon/fluff allow me to do that or am I going to be bombed tonight for choosing this....

There are plenty of examples of Renegades choosing to return to the Emperors light many of them feel that instead of excecution, death in battle is a better atonement. Examples include some members of the Astral Claws (Now Red Corsairs) possibly the Soul Drinker (Though i'm not sure they count) and also Relictors.
It isn't just black and white, there are many shades of grey when it comes to factions in 40k.

Ive also had another crazy idea! Obviously wont work but is there anyway to encorperate the Void DRagon into the fluff. Maybe the leader of the chapter could be like an avatar of the void dragon or something crazy like that.

kravus master of Horus wrote:Ive also had another crazy idea! Obviously wont work but is there anyway to encorperate the Void DRagon into the fluff. Maybe the leader of the chapter could be like an avatar of the void dragon or something crazy like that.

Unless he is also a Necron that wouldn't work...
I doubt anyone actually know he exists in the 40kverse (But i've been wrong before)
You could make him a powerful techmarine who has decided to take control of the renegades warband.

kravus master of Horus wrote:Ive also had another crazy idea! Obviously wont work but is there anyway to encorperate the Void DRagon into the fluff. Maybe the leader of the chapter could be like an avatar of the void dragon or something crazy like that.

only if you decided to go a technoligical route


an Iron Hands or Iron Warriors successor with a traitorous worship of the Void Dragon would be very nice. would allow Obliterators, Defilers and other vehicles to be fluffy.

Asherian Command wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:It has happened. Some chapters worship Khaine as their god. And use their pyschic powers very much like the eldar. Look at the bloody hands! Even though that is a horrible example as they are down to 500 marines! And they were annihilated for hersey.

where are any references to this chapter?

Its one of mine....

I'm not trying to be rude, but your wording passed it off as a canon chapter, which isn't as helpful in a fluff discussion, but i do like the idea.

purplefood wrote:

kravus master of Horus wrote:Would the exsisting cannon/fluff allow me to do that or am I going to be bombed tonight for choosing this....

There are plenty of examples of Renegades choosing to return to the Emperors light many of them feel that instead of excecution, death in battle is a better atonement. Examples include some members of the Astral Claws (Now Red Corsairs) possibly the Soul Drinker (Though i'm not sure they count) and also Relictors.
It isn't just black and white, there are many shades of grey when it comes to factions in 40k.

I don't think the relictors really count as they never turned away from the light of the emperor, never worshipping chaos, but there are lots of factions that hate the IoM but not humans.

kravus master of Horus wrote:
Ive also had another crazy idea! Obviously wont work but is there anyway to encorperate the Void DRagon into the fluff. Maybe the leader of the chapter could be like an avatar of the void dragon or something crazy like that.

the main problem with that is that star gods hate the warp and therefore chaos marines (but they also hate anything thats living) so it makes any idea of an organic avatar unlikely

So it would or wouldnt work?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Again my idea is changing.... I was thinking of a Max Payne style. Space marine falls in love, Imperium see this as a threat and gives orders to kill her, woman dies and Space marines gets pissed. Space marines vows to get revenge and become a blood thirsty animal. Before he knows it him and his chapter have fallen to Khorne. Space marine nearly goes to far and sees the monster he's become. From there he tries to redeem himself and his chapter while being hunted down by chaos and the Imperium.
Could this work?

No probably not, sorry but there just isnt any room for love in the 40k universe; in the cold darkness of the 41st mellenium... there is only war!!!!!

Tyranic Marta wrote:No probably not, sorry but there just isnt any room for love in the 40k universe; in the cold darkness of the 41st mellenium... there is only war!!!!!

Make LOVE not WAR!

kravus master of Horus wrote:

Tyranic Marta wrote:No probably not, sorry but there just isnt any room for love in the 40k universe; in the cold darkness of the 41st mellenium... there is only war!!!!!

Make LOVE not WAR!

I'm glad that advice wasn't taken or the Horus Heresy would be about incest..

Lexx wrote:

kravus master of Horus wrote:

Tyranic Marta wrote:No probably not, sorry but there just isnt any room for love in the 40k universe; in the cold darkness of the 41st mellenium... there is only war!!!!!

Make LOVE not WAR!

I'm glad that advice wasn't taken or the Horus Heresy would be about incest..

I officially hate you.
That's the second thing you've said which has created bad images...

"Why walk across the street when you can walk across the hall" Emperor of Mankind

Take Malal as a patron, or perhaps Fallen Dark Angels led by Cypher.

Malal could be a choice, as per he is the Renegade God of Chaos Undivided, bent on destroying Chaos from within.

Fallen, because of the theory that Cypher is actually still loyal, and is making his way to Terra with Lion's sword in order to gain forgiveness from the Emperor.