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This....is why religion makes me often sad. I don't hate religion, I feel it fills a basic need in mankind, the need to acknowledge that there may be something bigger than us, something we can't truly understand, something we can't truly explain...Why the frak can't people leave it at that, instead of going librarian poo and start spouting vehement insanity?

Also, I'd like to see these crazies deported. America isn't a bad place, but we've got a whole lot of loudmouthed idiots that make us look utterly slowed in the global eye.

I guess people will do/say anything to justify their sin. The bottom line is I agree with everything said in that video, and furthermore I applaud her. Some of the comments in this thread are full of much more ignorance than what Christine was saying.

Let me explain why most Christians believe masturbation is a sin.

Mat.5:28 (KJV) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mat 15:19 (KJV)For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Gal 5:19(KJV)Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

There are many more bible references I could give.

So the point is this... in order to masturbate you must allow yourself to fall into an imagination of fornication/adultery. Once you do that you have sinned. It's really that simple. After all I have never heard of someone masturbating to something as mundane as painting a fence.

Even beyond the sin, masturbation and pornography is destructive and unhealthy due the addictive nature of it.

GG

I'm scared...

generalgrog wrote:I guess people will do/say anything to justify their sin. The bottom line is I agree with everything said in that video, and furthermore I applaud her. Some of the comments in this thread are full of much more ignorance than what Christine was saying.

Let me explain why most Christians believe masturbation is a sin.

Mat.5:28 (KJV) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Mat 15:19 (KJV)For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Gal 5:19(KJV)Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

There are many more bible references I could give.

So the point is this... in order to masturbate you must allow yourself to fall into an imagination of fornication/adultery. Once you do that you have sinned. It's really that simple. After all I have never heard of someone masturbating to something as mundane as painting a fence.

Even beyond the sin, masturbation and pornography is destructive and unhealthy due the addictive nature of it.

GG

...Or perhaps it's just a natural behavior that most species engage in.

mattyrm wrote:I'm scared...

You should be. ;-)

GG

generalgrog wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I'm scared...

You should be. ;-)

GG

/slow clap

That was the greatest possible response.

Is there a reason why people care so much about Ms. O'Donnell?

Monster Rain wrote:

Is there a reason why people care so much about Ms. O'Donnell?

To be honest with you I hadn't heard of her until I saw that video. I was just responding to the core issue that was raised.

GG

generalgrog wrote:
Even beyond the sin, masturbation and pornography is destructive and unhealthy due the addictive nature of it.

Well...scientists say otherwise.

NewScientist wrote:
A team in Australia led by Graham Giles of The Cancer Council Victoria in Melbourne asked 1079 men with prostate cancer to fill in a questionnaire detailing their sexual habits, and compared their responses with those of 1259 healthy men of the same age. The team concludes that the more men ejaculate between the ages of 20 and 50, the less likely they are to develop prostate cancer.

The protective effect is greatest while men are in their twenties: those who had ejaculated more than five times per week in their twenties, for instance, were one-third less likely to develop aggressive prostate cancer later in life (BJU International, vol 92, p 211).

Sooo yeah, I prefer a healthy prostate over the "good" feeling of not sinning according to an interpretation of the bible, thanks.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:What Ann Coulter seems to have forgotten is that the last time the US made a serious attempt to invade Canada it resulted in the White House getting burnt down by Canadian forces.
Jus' sayin'.

Hey now!

Wikipedia: "The King's Own was one of the units who marched into Washington. In retaliation for the torching of the Canadian capitol of York (now called Toronto), and to disgrace President Madison, they set fire to the president's residence on August 24, 1814, burning down the White House."

That seems fair, Americans burned down the entire city of York... the british burned down a house. That's about right... Seriously?

These same scientists said ketchup causes cancer in the 80's then later they say ketchup can prevent cancer. In 10 years they will change their mind again. Science doesn't have all the answers my friend.

Also you can ejaculate without masturbation you know...It's called marriage.

GG

Now, that confuses me. Isn't that EXACTLY what Mr. Onan did? Sleeping with a woman, but not impregnating her? Isn't that EXACTLY what he was killed for?

Or are you saying I should marry and sleep with my wife but I better make damn sure I'll get a child out of it?

Science explains things far better than an ancient book of desert fables, and I'm well aware that you and your ilk want to force your disgustingly intolerant views onto everyone and bend us to your will, but it ain't gonna happen. Women still have the right to choose, gays can enjoy freedom and equality and teenagers are legally entitled to masturbate. You lot clearly happy about it, but tough luck.

And people are concerned about o donnell because she is bat gak crazy.

Is it really that hard to grasp?

mattyrm wrote:Science explains things far better than an ancient book of desert fables, and I'm well aware that you and your ilk want to force your disgustingly intolerant views...

Am I the only one that sees the irony here?

You should be careful about intolerance... because when you finally succeed in getting rid of that "thing" you won't tolerate... then your "thing" might be next.

I'm just sayin...

Witzkatz wrote:Now, that confuses me. Isn't that EXACTLY what Mr. Onan did? Sleeping with a woman, but not impregnating her? Isn't that EXACTLY what he was killed for?

Or are you saying I should marry and sleep with my wife but I better make damn sure I'll get a child out of it?

People have been confused about the biblical story of Onan and his death. As mentioned earlier in the thread, Onan was not killed, because he failed to inseminate the woman. He was killed because he directly disobeyed Judah. It was the act of disobedience that displeased God.

GG

Monster Rain wrote:

mattyrm wrote:Science explains things far better than an ancient book of desert fables, and I'm well aware that you and your ilk want to force your disgustingly intolerant views...

Am I the only one that sees the irony here?

Yes you are.

Lack of belief doesn't demand religion be banned, it just demands that it doesn't get an unfair say when law making it deciding public policy. I rather like churches..

The religious however are desperate to enforce your will on people. You want abortion banned, you want to force people with cancer to stay alive even though you never met them and they might want something else. You hate gays for no sensible reason even though it can involve love, our most noble emotion.

If you didn't constantly try to force your will on strangers, then people like me wouldn't have anything to complain about.

Matty, you have so much pent up anger in you..I feel very sorry for you. And I'm not trying to be sarcastic. It may surprise you to know that I pray for you.

GG

I appreciate that mate, I don't see what that will achieve, but thanks for the thought.

generalgrog wrote:Let me explain why most Christians believe masturbation is a sin.

I don't think I'd say that. Masturbation is not an issue that really gets addressed in the New Testament. Most verses concerning sexuality focus on other issues.

Mat.5:28 (KJV) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The verse is a reference to the deadly sin of lust, the point of it being that you don't necessarily need to engage in actual activity with someone to fall into it. The question is does the verse still apply when the woman doesn't actually exist and can you lust after an imaginary person, an issue the Bible never directly addresses. Furthermore, the deadly sins are sins of excess that can lead to pride, and it is possible to engage in "lustful" behavior without actually falling into the pit hole if behavior isn't excessive.

Gal 5:19(KJV)Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

A more proper translation of Galations 5:19 would be: "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery." (NIV) It doesn't really address this issue, as Paul was writing to the Galations to help them solve a very specific problem they were having. Masturbation isn't known to be one of them.

None of those things in their context as intended reference masturbation per se. Sexual immortality refers specifically to illicit relationships (adultery, fornication, incest etc). Impurity refers to sexual perversions (fetishes). Debauchery is a warning of excessiveness. What it really comes down to is does it count as a perversion? Adultery has a very specific biblical meaning. You can't commit adultery with a woman who doesn't really exist. Fornication is also specific to mean sex outside of marriage, which you again can't do with a woman who doesn't really exist. Point is the issue isn't as simple as you make it out to be. I wouldn't say 'most' Christians are against it. Most don't seem to have a stance on the issue, though most denominations and groups have one accepted.

mattyrm wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

mattyrm wrote:Science explains things far better than an ancient book of desert fables, and I'm well aware that you and your ilk want to force your disgustingly intolerant views...

Am I the only one that sees the irony here?

Yes you are.

Lack of belief doesn't demand religion be banned, it just demands that it doesn't get an unfair say when law making it deciding public policy. I rather like churches..

The religious however are desperate to enforce your will on people. You want abortion banned, you want to force people with cancer to stay alive even though you never met them and they might want something else. You hate gays for no sensible reason even though it can involve love, our most noble emotion.

If you didn't constantly try to force your will on strangers, then people like me wouldn't have anything to complain about.

Wow, this is alot of generalization and stereotyping. Very bigotted for someone so "enlightened." Matty what happened to you that you hate 'religion' so much?

And abortion is the killing of a child... a human being, you can rationalize it anyway you want, but it is the truth. In some instances it is necessary, but as a "choice?" No. I just wish that all the mothers of pro-abrtion advocates had felt as strongly as they do about abortion.

And about complaining... I think that you would find something to complain about regardless... It's like you came onto a forum about a Wargame and began spewing hate about Christianity, what did you think would happen? This thread is 15 minutes from lockdown. Enjoy, ...Cheers mate.

mattyrm wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

mattyrm wrote:Science explains things far better than an ancient book of desert fables, and I'm well aware that you and your ilk want to force your disgustingly intolerant views...

Am I the only one that sees the irony here?

Yes you are.

Lack of belief doesn't demand religion be banned, it just demands that it doesn't get an unfair say when law making it deciding public policy. I rather like churches..

The religious however are desperate to enforce your will on people. You want abortion banned, you want to force people with cancer to stay alive even though you never met them and they might want something else. You hate gays for no sensible reason even though it can involve love, our most noble emotion.

If you didn't constantly try to force your will on strangers, then people like me wouldn't have anything to complain about.

It was a rhetorical question.

And easy with the "you" bit, as you know nothing about me. It is just amusingly ironic to me that you make sweepingly intolerant statements about people because you perceive them to be intolerant, that's all. As to the red text, your own OP seems to indicate differently.

Sorry I'm struggling to defend myself here as I'm sat in the pub with me dad and I'm on my phone.

We shall continue this on the morrow!

Well... unless it gets locked.

Witzkatz wrote:

generalgrog wrote:
Even beyond the sin, masturbation and pornography is destructive and unhealthy due the addictive nature of it.

Well...scientists say otherwise.

NewScientist wrote:
A team in Australia led by Graham Giles of The Cancer Council Victoria in Melbourne asked 1079 men with prostate cancer to fill in a questionnaire detailing their sexual habits, and compared their responses with those of 1259 healthy men of the same age. The team concludes that the more men ejaculate between the ages of 20 and 50, the less likely they are to develop prostate cancer.

The protective effect is greatest while men are in their twenties: those who had ejaculated more than five times per week in their twenties, for instance, were one-third less likely to develop aggressive prostate cancer later in life (BJU International, vol 92, p 211).

Sooo yeah, I prefer a healthy prostate over the "good" feeling of not sinning according to an interpretation of the bible, thanks.

Five times a week is a bit of a tall order IMO


Ha Ha Ha "Tall order"

In all seriousness the best discription of her that has yet been given was from Karl Rove,

"She couldn't be elected dog catcher"

@ Lordofhats...when you masturbate are you thinking about painting a fence? going fishing? mowing the lawn? No you are fantasizing about having sex with a woman (or man). Fantasizing is the same thing as lusting. When you lust after a woman (or man) you are engaging in a "what if" sexual fantasy.

Once you have done that.. you have committed adultery in your heart..and therefore are a sinner, more specifically an adulterer. This is from Jesus' own mouth.

I think the real question is "Why does this matter?". To a Christian it matters because Christians want to get closer to God, or have a closer relationship with God. Sinning acts a barrier to a closer relationship. (Notice I didn't say total blocking, I said closer relationship) The video I saw was aimed more to younger Christians that have not yet married and are trying to keep their relationship with God close.

To an unbeliever it matters because, as shown in this very thread, they may not have ever heard that this kind of thing could be sinful, thus their immortal souls may be in jeapordy.

GG

@generalgrog:

While mattyrm really comes across quite angry here, I can't help to notice that my own reaction to your stance includes a small amount of indignation. This is not against you personally, though, let me explain:

I'm more of a scientific person than a religious person. I know that science isn't perfect. Science tries to explain things, might find an explanation that gets revoked later. Science knows that it knows nothing, to speak with the words of a famous philosopher.

On the other side, for religious people, everything is clear. You yourself seem to have quite an unshakeable faith and your stance on this topic is clear, because the bible says so. You have the calmness of a person who knows that he's right.

Scientific persons don't have that calmness, because they know they can't be sure if they are right. The scientists in the article I mentioned above readily acknowledged that they don't know the biological reasoning behind the data they acquired, they can only speculate and assume.

And if you're used to the fact that, in the quest for knowledge, you can't be absolutely 100% right on something and can only try to find the most possible reasos for something...and THEN a religious person tells you "Well, of course this is so and so and you have sinned, thats a fact, it's in the bible."...it's easy for a scientific person to get annoyed. I guess religious people are more composed and even-tempered than scientists, which is probably a favorable thing! However, the religious belief in absolutely unshakeable truths found in old books comes also across as a bit ignorant to scientists.

Which is why they might get annoyed even without the religious person really trying to convert them or anything.

Isn't belief in something better than belief in nothing?

Those who profess tolerance are the first to be intolerant when disagreed with.

I don't want to pick on anyone, but it seems like so many people now-adays regurgitate that ole' party line, that belief in God or Allah or whoever, makes you ignorant and bassackwards.

Its just sad.

Isn't belief in something better than belief in nothing?

And that's where I wouldn't agree directly. To be scientific: Why exactly should that be better?

Witzkatz wrote:

Isn't belief in something better than belief in nothing?

And that's where I wouldn't agree directly. To be scientific: Why exactly should that be better?

Perhaps focusing our beliefs on our own capabilities,rather on some invisible Father figure would be the for the best.
...Chanel some energy into trying to alive some true social problems...like abused children or housing the homeless,rather than cringing in fear of being eternally damned for tossing off to some skin mag.

Is it still a sin if I post something inappropriately sexual on a wargaming forum?

Just asking, no real reason...

Yes.