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Im a big fan of trukks. I honestly just cannot see where people that are against trukks get this idea from. I used to run a pretty heavy trukk list with BW as support, or the BW in front with the trukks as support. I can tell you from experience that a list like that can kick some serious ass.

Your BW list looks like a pretty typical BW rush list. So Id say its on par at least with all the others lol

haha i know its very traditional, but do you think BW spam lists actually do well against most other armies? I say they dont, but thats just me. I guess it depends on the supporting units, but an all BW list seems way to 1 dimensional.

BW spam, at the end of the day is a matter of, what is your opponents chances to stop a wagon for a turn? How about three? Now half it, if this come to more than 1.5 it's time to try and hide and adjust target priority, if it comes to more than 2.0, just pray to gork and mork that they stuff up and miss-judge your waaagh range (this happens suprisingly often) or better yet suprise them with Ghaz calling it in their turn for fearless where you need it.

As hard as nails, but woe if you hit them at a funny angle!

I still think a Wazzdakka list is better than both Kan Wall and BW spam. All those Bikes with 4+ cover are harder to kill than a few vehicles, which does well against the Anti tank spam tournaments lists tend to use. They aren't very good in an assault so you have to learn to play shooty, but it works. Plus, most people won't have much experience with that kind of list, as opposed to most other Ork builds, where they will know it well.

Just make sure to take lots of Rokkit buggies, they're awesome.

KingCracker wrote:Im a big fan of trukks. I honestly just cannot see where people that are against trukks get this idea from.

Then it's probably most people have played competitively enough and understand what's good and what's not.

Mike Noble wrote:I still think a Wazzdakka list is better than both Kan Wall and BW spam. All those Bikes with 4+ cover are harder to kill than a few vehicles, which does well against the Anti tank spam tournaments lists tend to use. They aren't very good in an assault so you have to learn to play shooty, but it works. Plus, most people won't have much experience with that kind of list, as opposed to most other Ork builds, where they will know it well.

Just make sure to take lots of Rokkit buggies, they're awesome.

I agree completely here. I like to play shooty lists, and I think the rokkit buggies fit nicely in most lists. They pack a punch in larger groups of them as well. As Ive stated they are my MC killers hands down, and they can pop some transports with ease too, not to mention are so damn cheap, you dont feel bad throwing them at something to act as a road block.


Im going to disagree however on Wazdakka being better then Kan walls. The Kan wall list is just loads more survivable and cost effective then biker builds. Not to mention, there are ways to go around cover saves, and when people DO go around them, bikers eat it hard. Also they are very expensive and not that tough in CC. They lack what a gak load of boyz gives you, bodies. Sure they have a 4+ armor save, but anything with power weapons in assault will just make you a sad panda. Where as against a Kan wall, congrats you ignored 4 armor saves and killed 4 boyz......what about the other 16+ (depending on if your a 20 mob guy or a 30) with killa kans/dreds wanting to repaint their bodies with you blood.

Not knocking Wazdakka biker lists though. I have to say, though Ive never played with/against them, on paper anyways they look like they could really kick some teef in


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striderx wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Im a big fan of trukks. I honestly just cannot see where people that are against trukks get this idea from.

Then it's probably most people have played competitively enough and understand what's good and what's not.

Riiiiiiight. I forgot that playing in tournaments is the only way to prove if your a good player or not. Silly me. All Im saying is, I play/played against some pretty damn good players, and running a PROPER trukk+bw rush list can and will kick peoples ass. Its just a fact. If found that most the people that say trukk lists are garbage, have never played WITH a trukk list, never used a trukk list properly, or only read crap on forums and see that stelek and the like say they are trash.

KingCracker wrote:Riiiiiiight. I forgot that playing in tournaments is the only way to prove if your a good player or not. Silly me. All Im saying is, I play/played against some pretty damn good players, and running a PROPER trukk+bw rush list can and will kick peoples ass. Its just a fact. If found that most the people that say trukk lists are garbage, have never played WITH a trukk list, never used a trukk list properly, or only read crap on forums and see that stelek and the like say they are trash.

Only difference is most of these people whom you claim never played trukk lists probably played them even before you started orks/40k and understand how things work. I wouldnt make the daring claim that these people (in fact the majority) don't know their stuff. Also, Trukk lists are trukk lists, BW supported with trukk/trukks are another category.

No one says playing in tournaments is the ONLY way to prove competitiveness - where did you read that from? As for your so called "pretty damn good" players (not sure how you string these words together), I don't know them so I better not comment on them.

striderx wrote:

KingCracker wrote:Riiiiiiight. I forgot that playing in tournaments is the only way to prove if your a good player or not. Silly me. All Im saying is, I play/played against some pretty damn good players, and running a PROPER trukk+bw rush list can and will kick peoples ass. Its just a fact. If found that most the people that say trukk lists are garbage, have never played WITH a trukk list, never used a trukk list properly, or only read crap on forums and see that stelek and the like say they are trash.

Only difference is most of these people whom you claim never played trukk lists probably played them even before you started orks/40k and understand how things work. I wouldnt make the daring claim that these people (in fact the majority) don't know their stuff. Also, Trukk lists are trukk lists, BW supported with trukk/trukks are another category.

No one says playing in tournaments is the ONLY way to prove competitiveness - where did you read that from? As for your so called "pretty damn good" players (not sure how you string these words together), I don't know them so I better not comment on them.

Oh look its Davicus 2.0
Trukks supported by BW IS how you run trukks. 4+ trukks and 2+ BW depending on points. I dont have to prove my credentials/skills to some random guy on a forum with something to prove. And stated this
As for your so called "pretty damn good" players (not sure how you string these words together), I don't know them so I better not comment on them
Is commenting on them. And stringing those words together is pretty easy, you type them in that order, and presto they are together, its a no brainer

KingCracker wrote:

Mike Noble wrote:I still think a Wazzdakka list is better than both Kan Wall and BW spam. All those Bikes with 4+ cover are harder to kill than a few vehicles, which does well against the Anti tank spam tournaments lists tend to use. They aren't very good in an assault so you have to learn to play shooty, but it works. Plus, most people won't have much experience with that kind of list, as opposed to most other Ork builds, where they will know it well.

Just make sure to take lots of Rokkit buggies, they're awesome.

I agree completely here. I like to play shooty lists, and I think the rokkit buggies fit nicely in most lists. They pack a punch in larger groups of them as well. As Ive stated they are my MC killers hands down, and they can pop some transports with ease too, not to mention are so damn cheap, you dont feel bad throwing them at something to act as a road block.


Im going to disagree however on Wazdakka being better then Kan walls. The Kan wall list is just loads more survivable and cost effective then biker builds. Not to mention, there are ways to go around cover saves, and when people DO go around them, bikers eat it hard. Also they are very expensive and not that tough in CC. They lack what a gak load of boyz gives you, bodies. Sure they have a 4+ armor save, but anything with power weapons in assault will just make you a sad panda. Where as against a Kan wall, congrats you ignored 4 armor saves and killed 4 boyz......what about the other 16+ (depending on if your a 20 mob guy or a 30) with killa kans/dreds wanting to repaint their bodies with you blood.

Not knocking Wazdakka biker lists though. I have to say, though Ive never played with/against them, on paper anyways they look like they could really kick some teef in

Bikes being bad at CC is irrelevant, since massed Dakkaguns destroy most infantry with ease. The problem with most Biker lists is that they spam bikes. You want to go with MSU in an Ork Biker list so you have enough points for firepower. You can fit 9 Kanz in a biker list, as well as Buggies and Lootas. Check it.

Wazzdakka

14 Lootas
14 Lootas

9 Bikers-Nob w/PK
3 Bikers
3 Bikers
3 Bikers
3 Bikers
3 Bikers

3 Rokkit Buggies
3 Rokkit Buggies
3 Rokkit Buggies

3 Rokkit Kanz
3 Rokkit Kanz
3 Rokkit Kanz


Thats 2000 points. You could probably find a way to get a KFF in, but you'd have to also get a unit on foot for him to be in. either way, even shooty lists will be hard pressed to kill all this. My point is, Bikes are better than Boys because they are faster, shootier, and tougher. Sure they're more expensive, but IMO the good outweighs the bad.

Also, Bikes can screen the Buggies, just thought I'd throw that in.

That list is truly shocking.... ever heard of Incendiary Castellan missiles?
And that all you're going to be doing is takeing LD checks with Ld 7?
Take 24 wounds and you can't score...
No PKs... etc etc

Before you go knocking the list at least look at the truly massive ammount of firepower coming from that list. I mean it's got 72 str 5 that are t/l bs 2, between 28 and 84 str 7 shots, and 22 str 8 that are either t/l bs 2 or bs 3.

Why would you even want to bother with CC when you're throwing so much down range? Not to mention you have 9 DCCW and wazdakka's str 10 PK as well. A lack of PK is not the disadvantage in this list at all. And really anything that can get through a 3+ cover (which the bikes will have unless they're torrenting something) will die very quickly to all the rokkits heading straight (mostly) at it.

If they focus on doing those 24 wounds through 3+ cover I would bet they get tabled frankly.

Ah, it's still PrawnCracker level 0.

KingCracker wrote:Trukks supported by BW IS how you run trukks. 4+ trukks and 2+ BW depending on points.

Battlewagon list is great. Wagon + Trukk is pretty fine. Mass/pure trukk list was why I laughed at you.

KingCracker wrote:I dont have to prove my credentials/skills to some random guy on a forum with something to prove.

I don't think you have any to begin with, except to suddenly make senseless remarks intentionally for others pointing out your obvious mistakes.

KingCracker wrote: And stated this
As for your so called "pretty damn good" players (not sure how you string these words together), I don't know them so I better not comment on them
Is commenting on them. And stringing those words together is pretty easy, you type them in that order, and presto they are together, its a no brainer

I think it was meant to tell you that these words (pretty damn good) don't go together in the English language. Maybe you were too slow to realize it.

Ahh Davi, I was hoping against hopes that you were banned, Ill just give it time though, you cant help yourself.

Also super player that you are, I never once said, run nothing but trukks, ever. I might have used an example once of saying that IF you did it would be to many units to take out in one or two turns. When I play with trukks, Its 4 to 6 trukks, with 2 or so BW for support, and KFF meks. That is a tough build I dont care what you think on it, Ive played against some tough players before running that, and it almost always performs.

Also I noticed you and the other fella are not from America, so Im sure your going to pretend to know how to speak like an America better then I can, simply because you guys are the pissing match types, but Im pretty sure I can do it better then both of you put together, you know since I was born here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mike Noble wrote:

KingCracker wrote:

Mike Noble wrote:I still think a Wazzdakka list is better than both Kan Wall and BW spam. All those Bikes with 4+ cover are harder to kill than a few vehicles, which does well against the Anti tank spam tournaments lists tend to use. They aren't very good in an assault so you have to learn to play shooty, but it works. Plus, most people won't have much experience with that kind of list, as opposed to most other Ork builds, where they will know it well.

Just make sure to take lots of Rokkit buggies, they're awesome.

I agree completely here. I like to play shooty lists, and I think the rokkit buggies fit nicely in most lists. They pack a punch in larger groups of them as well. As Ive stated they are my MC killers hands down, and they can pop some transports with ease too, not to mention are so damn cheap, you dont feel bad throwing them at something to act as a road block.


Im going to disagree however on Wazdakka being better then Kan walls. The Kan wall list is just loads more survivable and cost effective then biker builds. Not to mention, there are ways to go around cover saves, and when people DO go around them, bikers eat it hard. Also they are very expensive and not that tough in CC. They lack what a gak load of boyz gives you, bodies. Sure they have a 4+ armor save, but anything with power weapons in assault will just make you a sad panda. Where as against a Kan wall, congrats you ignored 4 armor saves and killed 4 boyz......what about the other 16+ (depending on if your a 20 mob guy or a 30) with killa kans/dreds wanting to repaint their bodies with you blood.

Not knocking Wazdakka biker lists though. I have to say, though Ive never played with/against them, on paper anyways they look like they could really kick some teef in

Bikes being bad at CC is irrelevant, since massed Dakkaguns destroy most infantry with ease. The problem with most Biker lists is that they spam bikes. You want to go with MSU in an Ork Biker list so you have enough points for firepower. You can fit 9 Kanz in a biker list, as well as Buggies and Lootas. Check it.

Wazzdakka

14 Lootas
14 Lootas

9 Bikers-Nob w/PK
3 Bikers
3 Bikers
3 Bikers
3 Bikers
3 Bikers

3 Rokkit Buggies
3 Rokkit Buggies
3 Rokkit Buggies

3 Rokkit Kanz
3 Rokkit Kanz
3 Rokkit Kanz


Thats 2000 points. You could probably find a way to get a KFF in, but you'd have to also get a unit on foot for him to be in. either way, even shooty lists will be hard pressed to kill all this. My point is, Bikes are better than Boys because they are faster, shootier, and tougher. Sure they're more expensive, but IMO the good outweighs the bad.

Also, Bikes can screen the Buggies, just thought I'd throw that in.

You make a good point there. Like Ive said Ive never played a biker list so my knowledge in it is limited to what I read. So naturally I was thinking along the CC aspect being Orks and bikes are fast. Now looking at that I have to say that would be dead killy, not to mention thats ALOT of units. 15 units(if you leave wazdakka out of the nobs) to fire at/assault in 2k points? Ya thatll work

KingCracker wrote:Also super player that you are, I never once said, run nothing but trukks, ever. I might have used an example once of saying that IF you did it would be to many units to take out in one or two turns. When I play with trukks, Its 4 to 6 trukks, with 2 or so BW for support, and KFF meks. That is a tough build I dont care what you think on it, Ive played against some tough players before running that, and it almost always performs.

And if you would refer back, I said mass/pure trukk is dumb. I laughed at YOU on that one. Am certain that I didnt make the same comment on Wagon+Trukk list, even if you suddenly change your stance.

KingCracker wrote:Also I noticed you and the other fella are not from America, so Im sure your going to pretend to know how to speak like an America better then I can, simply because you guys are the pissing match types, but Im pretty sure I can do it better then both of you put together, you know since I was born here.

Doesn't change the fact that your English is bad.

I'm not a huge fan of the Mass Trukk spam, but You can get 2 Wagons,5 Trukks,9 buggies, and 9 Kanz in a 2K list. Very potent.

Yea thats along the lines of how I run my trukk lists. And always take rokkit buggies, Ive been a big fan of those for a long time. No kans though

I am getting tired of seeing personal attacks ruin threads is 40k Tactics. Warnings and suspensions have been distributed. Let there be no more trouble in Ork threads or any other.

@Biker list discussion:

Yes it ditches out 72 Str 5 shots, of which 36 should hit etc etc.
But it has unavoidable problems which stop it form being a viable tournament list.
LD7 with no rerolls - what this means is that against say bloter fire, there's a 0.074 chance to take a wound per shot - now that single unsave wound on any unit except your PK will cause a check from casualties - which we have a 47% iirc chance of failing and running...
A 3% chance per shot from a bolter that your guys are going to flee...
Or again if they have a whirlwind... you can't win, it's just not possible with that few bodies against large blasts - that rip your cover off.
What about anything that DS's? your lootas are 6+ boys with one less attack.
Or how aout against an ork list what on earth would you do to solve the issues there?
Yes, you churn ou STR5 shots, this'll eat up infantry - What else does it have? There are so many cookie-lists out there which will for the simple fact of things they must take to deal with nastier lists have answers that overpower 3man squads that cost 75 points each.

And then a suggestion to screen 35point TLRL buggies with bikers... 3 man squads... of your scoring troops?

Yes, but it has so many units LD isn't that important. I can tell you personally that even though your bikes run away a lot, it doesn't actually matter much. Also, %3 chance per bolter shot is pretty bad when you consider they shouldn't be rapid firing. Plus, you can even turbo boost them out of range of all the enemies anti infantry, have a 3+ save against the heavy stuff(which is wasted against them anyway since there's Kanz right there) and then the next turn, go back and torrent the enemy to death.

Whirldwinds mean nothing, because no ones brings them anyway. Even if they did, they aren't a threat. If they do anti cover shot, they are AP 5, so the bikes get armor, if they do the regular shot, I still get cover. Add in the fact that the bikes will be spread far apart, and they won't do much damage, and they will be gone pretty soon anyway from the Lootas.

I can get past all those weaknesses with tactics, so I don't see them as a problem. As MrDrumMachine said, if they actually focus on killing the Bikes, they will probably get tabled.

The 3% calculation is with the 3++ save.
I appreciate what you're trying to say about volume of fire, but in my experiance, having a bike unit turn out 9TL shots usualy means 2 maybe 3 saves to be made - tops.

Just quickly on the whirlwind type guns issue, how do you deal with stuff that doesn't need los, with lootas???

But I feel this lists real problem is 'rock' builds, how would you deal with 5 BWs? Living lightening wold absolutly rip this list apart turn by turn, two monoliths would be capable of it too, against what's looking like my common DE list, I'd turbo over your lootas dropping a wealth of STR6 hits and dance out of your dakkaguns new 12" range - and do it for 7 turns - etc etc.

You keep saying you'll tbale someone, but with what? 18 rokkits with 24" range aren't going to do it, 1 pk isn't either. Walkers are slow.

You say "Plus, most people won't have much experience with that kind of list, as opposed to most other Ork builds, where they will know it well." But I'll contest that they do, this list is just a MSU marine list with no ATSKNF! How does one deal with them? Flank and take out the unit that's closest one at a time, no single unit in this list other than Wazdakka/9BikePK is actually capable of crumping something.

I refer to an old theory whenever playing a strategic game as should you. Never put all your eggs in one basket.
You need things that can kill everything spread apart. If one of your kans gets Immobilized they all die as per rulebook, same with the buggies. Any good player wouldn't waste fire on your bikes until your bikes used a turn to shoot. The armor on the KANS and the Buggies won't survive many turns in a 2k point game without some back-up, a.k.a. KFF, and you can cut out a bike squad to field 2 nobs with PK AND BP in the other squads.
Buggies are cheap TL rokkits, em, I don't like 'em.
Deffkoptas never fail me, why do other players not run them? They earn their points.
Lootas are good. But drup some buggies and nob up your bikers.
Put the Nob on the nine with another troop and attach Wazdakka to it instead. If that troop turbo boosts he can still singly fire his weapons and they all get the 3+ cover save.
Blastas are better than rokkits on KANS, can you move some points around for that?
Suggestions I give.
Also, best Ork troop I would gather at 2k points should be utilizing GHAZ and his waaagh! Some Trukks (2-3), a BW(yeah, 1), horde, a small KAN WALL (6 with BM KFF behind them, while walking up a mass of boyz a MASS of boyz.) form and NOB BIKES as troops, (They can still WAAAGH! Unless that rule crcle has been contested and defied.)
LOOTAS are a must and if you don't run deffkoptas then run your damn buggies. (DEFFKOPTAS!!!!!!!!!)


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I personally run TANKBUSTAS but its more for fun then competitiveness.

Runna wrote:If one of your kans gets Immobilized they all die as per rulebook, same with the buggies.

You mean if one kan is immob, all 3 kans are destroyed in the squadron???

Where did you get this from?

I love this Ork trend towards diversified builds. How many other codexes are still in debate as to what the power build is this long after their release? It really seems that every unit in the codex will come in to vogue at one point or another. There was a time when the suicide Deffkopta ruled the fast attack slot, and now conventional wisdom seems to say the buggies are better. Large squads of diversified koptas may supplant them at some point down the line.

This is what a codex should always aspire to- wonderful tools that can be used in a huge variety of ways to compete with just about anything out there.

The hardest Ork build is the one that you are the most familiar with and deadliest with. Experiment with anything that appeals to you and be prepared to change your opinions.

striderx wrote:

Runna wrote:If one of your kans gets Immobilized they all die as per rulebook, same with the buggies.

You mean if one kan is immob, all 3 kans are destroyed in the squadron???

Where did you get this from?

Yea I agree, thats not how squadrons work. If a kan/buggy thats in a squadron gets immobilized, IT gets destroyed, not the rest. But thats really the only down fall IMO in squadrons, you basically get wound allocation when in squadrons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gitzbitah wrote:I love this Ork trend towards diversified builds. How many other codexes are still in debate as to what the power build is this long after their release? It really seems that every unit in the codex will come in to vogue at one point or another. There was a time when the suicide Deffkopta ruled the fast attack slot, and now conventional wisdom seems to say the buggies are better. Large squads of diversified koptas may supplant them at some point down the line.

This is what a codex should always aspire to- wonderful tools that can be used in a huge variety of ways to compete with just about anything out there.

The hardest Ork build is the one that you are the most familiar with and deadliest with. Experiment with anything that appeals to you and be prepared to change your opinions.

I agree here as well. I still finding it pretty cool that people are coming out with new rather powerful builds from the Ork dex. Hell recently Ive seen stormboyz popping up and being used to good effect. Where as a few months ago or longer, people would laugh at the idea of taking them. I dont think any other codex has as many different builds as the Ork dex, which is odd as it feels like it doesnt has THAT many unit types compared to others

ChrisCP wrote:The 3% calculation is with the 3++ save.
I appreciate what you're trying to say about volume of fire, but in my experiance, having a bike unit turn out 9TL shots usualy means 2 maybe 3 saves to be made - tops.

Just quickly on the whirlwind type guns issue, how do you deal with stuff that doesn't need los, with lootas???

But I feel this lists real problem is 'rock' builds, how would you deal with 5 BWs? Living lightening wold absolutly rip this list apart turn by turn, two monoliths would be capable of it too, against what's looking like my common DE list, I'd turbo over your lootas dropping a wealth of STR6 hits and dance out of your dakkaguns new 12" range - and do it for 7 turns - etc etc.

You keep saying you'll tbale someone, but with what? 18 rokkits with 24" range aren't going to do it, 1 pk isn't either. Walkers are slow.

You say "Plus, most people won't have much experience with that kind of list, as opposed to most other Ork builds, where they will know it well." But I'll contest that they do, this list is just a MSU marine list with no ATSKNF! How does one deal with them? Flank and take out the unit that's closest one at a time, no single unit in this list other than Wazdakka/9BikePK is actually capable of crumping something.

I'll take a stab at this one. You're changing what you thought the whirlwind would be doing when you find out you're wrong. Whirlwinds suck, virtually nobody takes them in a serious list. Also you don't deal with them with your lootas. You have a turbo boosting 4 shots from rokkits, and 9 more t/l rokkits from fast vehicles. Things that don't need LOS shouldn't live past turn 2 and if there's THAT much LOS blocking terrain and you're up against a shooty army, odds are you're much more maneuverable.

The reason people don't have experience with this type of list is because it's just as fast as a SM bike army except a LOT shootier from the same range and at higher strength.

Also your comments about DE are just wrong. Where are you getting the str 6 from? Void ravens or the razorwing? Razorwings are AV10 all around, void ravens are pretty cost prohibitive to take 3 so odds are you'll only see 2 at a time. OHNOES I LOST MY LOOTAS WHAT SHALL I DO???? Oh wait. . . every other shot in my army can hurt every vehicle (except vect). Next please. And I mean really, "dance away?" How? This list is just as fast. Yes the walkers are slow and probably don't get to shoot turn one but 12", move, run is the same as how hive guard work and they don't suck right?

Okay 5 BW list looks something like

HQ
Warboss - PK, 'Eavy Armor, Bosspole, Cybork

Big Mek - KFF

Elites
Lootas x5

Lootas x5

Nobs x3 - Battle wagon - Deff Rolla, RPJ, Grot Riggers

Troops
Nobs x6 - Painboy, Banner, Power Klaw, 'Eavy Armor(or cybork)
Battle wagon - Deff Rolla, RPJ, Grot Riggers

Boys x 19 - Nob, Power Klaw Boss Pole

Boys x 19 - Nob, Power Klaw Boss Pole

Boys x 19 - Nob, Power Klaw Boss Pole

Grots x16 - Herder

Fast
Deff Koptas x2 - Buzz saw, 2 t/l rokkits

Deff Koptas x2 - Buzz saw, 2 t/l rokkits

Heavy
Battle wagon - Deff Rolla, RPJ, Grot Riggers

Battle wagon - Deff Rolla, RPJ, Grot Riggers

Battle wagon - Deff Rolla, RPJ, Grot Riggers

The inherent problem with this type of list is that your target priority is already set for you. Lootas kill koptas, some bikes kill opposing lootas and gretchin, everything else gets to side armor (and really side armor on a BW is like a mile long) and once the bikes are done they go for rear armor. You avoid CC with what's important (kans and lootas will die because they're they're slow and what's important is fast) and once you get rear armor on the BW then they really start disappearing. And like every other BW list you just run around praying you make cove saves, how tactically deep.

Your living lightning comment is interesting, are you suggesting 4 rune priests with living lightning +x? Where's a competitive list with that? Seriously. Oh you mean 1 with living lightning? Okay he gets d6 autocannon shots at one target, whoop dee doo. The 15 long fangs are scarier and OH YEAH YOU HAVE TONS OF FIRE. The list operates just fine with a portion of it neutralized

And did you really just suggest necrons? Lol.

My list would indeed be a lot better if you took a KFF, I'd drop a squad of bikes, and some Lootas to get him and a squad of Grots. They are weak, but behind the Kanz they will last long enough to give them 4+. Plus shooting at them is stupid anyway, because of the far more dangerous(or should I say dangerous at all) Bikers.

I'm almost sure I checked this, for assault, squadrons of walkers follow the same rules as squadrons of vehicles, I just got told that yesterday when running kans, if that's wrong, someone please show me how to prove its wrong and I'll go back to running squads of kans.

Still, I take DEFFKOPTAS over buggies. 1 Deffkoptas with a buzzsaw will kill, and your opponent will shoot at it given your boyz time to march ever onward with those BigShootas in range and if you atually needed a turn to move them, Lootas up a bit. It can scout move and outflank. Buggies are good point wise in comparison, but Deffkoptas are better for tactics. Never underscore the point cost of tactics.

WHy would you run 3 more battlewagons in that list?
Put in some Kans or something, 5 BW's too f'n much.
Why do people underscore artillery? You can put a wall of grots infront of them and they BS at 3 with 36" range on a Kannon, proxy it for a game tell me if you hate it first. Put it behind grots and kans with a BM KFF, put 3 in a squad for 60pnts with 3 ammo runts, 9pnts, 69 pnts of nasty. Accidental Pun.
If it fails you horribly I retract my statement, if you don't proxy it yourself however don't tell me bad things about it from your friends or forums. Make 'em Zzaps if you want for 30more points but I wouldn't.
Use the points left over from the BW drop to get more Lootas and maybe another deffkopta that outflanks with a random big bomm drop(it sux) and some TL big shoota fire to kill troops, mostly for fun and to keep fire away from the BW's and boyz marching up.(a.k.a. only run 2 BW's transporting, don't run any as heavy.)



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also give a PK to your x3 nobz and BigChoppas mean instant death to farseers and plenty other annoying multi wound models as well as easier to pen hits when assaulting tanks on a charge or anything, I never went back to not using BigChoppas after first proxying them. Never will go back. No tank can live through my nob charge even without the PK hitting it.

(But when Banshees pop out and assault you next turn and your WarBoss runs because he's the only living member it dampers your cool...lessons learned...lessons learned... )

Runna wrote:I'm almost sure I checked this, for assault, squadrons of walkers follow the same rules as squadrons of vehicles, I just got told that yesterday when running kans, if that's wrong, someone please show me how to prove its wrong and I'll go back to running squads of kans.

Yes, squadrons of walkers are like squadrons of vehicles, nothing wrong with that. But what has this got to do with your claim of 1 veh immobilized = all 3 wrecked? Where did you get this from? Reference us to a page in the rulebook.

I was refrenced to the rulebook. Where it says when a vehicle in a squadron is immobilized, all the crew will get out and abandon the vehicles. I believe it was mis-interpreted as all the crew of the squadron as oppose to just the crew of the vehicle, and I will be running Kans squadrons again, apologies in order. More so to me, as I'm the one who got this hit on me in a friendly game when I first ran Kans. So, forgive the statement. And I still don't like buggies.


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but Ilike Kans more now.


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and Nobz on bikes with kombi-skorchas and 1 or 2 PK's are ALWAYS worth the points.

MrDrumMachine wrote:I'll take a stab at this one. You're changing what you thought the whirlwind would be doing when you find out you're wrong. Whirlwinds suck, virtually nobody takes them in a serious list. Also you don't deal with them with your lootas.

I assume you’ve been following all along, so you’ll know I pulled WWs out as an easy example of a Large blast/cover denial. I never said I’d deal with them with lootas

Mike Noble wrote:Whirldwinds mean nothing, because no ones brings them anyway. Even if they did, they aren't a threat….and they will be gone pretty soon anyway from the Lootas.

MrDrumMachine wrote: You have a turbo boosting 4 shots from rokkits, and 9 more t/l rokkits from fast vehicles. Things that don't need LOS shouldn't live past turn 2 and if there's THAT much LOS blocking terrain and you're up against a shooty army, odds are you're much more maneuverable.

The list under discussion has no Deffkoptas… I think I missunderstood something here~?
And what you’ve said is your going to manoeuvre around a whole army to take out something hidden in turn two? – But theory hammer aside

MrDrumMachine wrote:The reason people don't have experience with this type of list is because it's just as fast as a SM bike army except a LOT shootier from the same range and at higher strength.

I don’t understand this comment, this ‘type of list’ you mean ork bikes or bikes in general or a MSU FA army?

MrDrumMachine wrote:Also your comments about DE are just wrong. Where are you getting the str 6 from? Void ravens or the razorwing? Razorwings are AV10 all around, void ravens are pretty cost prohibitive to take 3 so odds are you'll only see 2 at a time.

STR 6 comes from reavers

MrDrumMachine wrote:OHNOES I LOST MY LOOTAS WHAT SHALL I DO???? Oh wait. . . every other shot in my army can hurt every vehicle (except vect). Next please. And I mean really, "dance away?" How? This list is just as fast.

So you’re saying a 12” move is ‘just as fast as a 36” turbo boost 12” move and fire all weapons and is going to avoid an additional 6” range on all your shooting? Beasts with fleet and everything else? How are you going to catch something when your best move a 24” turbo boost and they do 36? It will be as I say, a dance, you’re going to have to move around the DT or stat taking the same test as the raiders.
To emphasise my disbelieve – You are saying Ork Bikes and walkers are just as fast as Dark Eldar, riiight.

MrDrumMachine wrote: Yes the walkers are slow and probably don't get to shoot turn one but 12", move, run is the same as how hive guard work and they don't suck right?

They don’t need LOS and don’t give cover too easily and have BS4 and cost the same and have two wounds…are you saying a squadron of BS3 guys who fall over from ½ the rolls on a damage chart and will lose their gun or CCW from another 2/3s to neuter it…. Is comparable? For raw effectiveness?

MrDrumMachine wrote:~List~ (whih I have a variety of issues with naturally
The inherent problem with this type of list is that your target priority is already set for you. Lootas kill koptas, some bikes kill opposing lootas and gretchin, everything else gets to side armor (and really side armor on a BW is like a mile long) and once the bikes are done they go for rear armor. You avoid CC with what's important (kans and lootas will die because they're they're slow and what's important is fast) and once you get rear armor on the BW then they really start disappearing. And like every other BW list you just run around praying you make cove saves, how tactically deep.

To look at it from the other side of the fence, there are 5 BW’s that fear nothing in you list except Kans, I’m going be tactically deep and drive at your largest or smallest concentration of points, disembark and multi-assault with waaagh turn two, you say you’re going to side armour my BWs but the player has run BWs enough time to know how to present only front armour for 190 odd degrees.

MrDrumMachine wrote:Your living lightning comment is interesting, are you suggesting 4 rune priests with living lightning +x? Where's a competitive list with that? Seriously. Oh you mean 1 with living lightning? Okay he gets d6 autocannon shots at one target, whoop dee doo. The 15 long fangs are scarier and OH YEAH YOU HAVE TONS OF FIRE. The list operates just fine with a portion of it neutralized

And did you really just suggest necrons? Lol.

The living lightening is going to hit you largest squad and force a Ld check every single turn. I never said 4 priests, and you know that 15 longs and a priest is quite common, you pointed it out, so why pretend you didn’t know what I was getting at?
Evey single thing in that style of SW list eats your units.
Necros is just an example of what is the list going to do against it? It’s going to sit there and P.whip-the-balls off you while you dance around with no answers. (imo atm)

And that is it in a nutshell, this list has no answers and one glaring weakness that everyone tells me to ignore and it doesn’t/won’t matter.
It has only units of 3 with one wound each which will be forced to take LD check that will fail more than 40% of the time. But to continue. Same situation for the vehicles, and finally it has large blobs of heavy weapons teams with 6+ saves…

To say the list is competetive/good is a crule joke on a new player reading about it

I hope I'm still seeming civil and open to discussion for you