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ChrisCP wrote:So you’re saying a 12” move is ‘just as fast as a 36” turbo boost 12” move and fire all weapons and is going to avoid an additional 6” range on all your shooting? Beasts with fleet and everything else? How are you going to catch something when your best move a 24” turbo boost and they do 36? It will be as I say, a dance, you’re going to have to move around the DT or stat taking the same test as the raiders.
To emphasise my disbelieve – You are saying Ork Bikes and walkers are just as fast as Dark Eldar, riiight.

But dude, the table is only 6 by 4. I would say anything that can move 12-24 is just as fast as anything that can move up to 36, if you can visualize what I mean.

The table (hopefully) isn't an open killing-field =)

Runna wrote:I was refrenced to the rulebook. Where it says when a vehicle in a squadron is immobilized, all the crew will get out and abandon the vehicles. I believe it was mis-interpreted as all the crew of the squadron as oppose to just the crew of the vehicle, and I will be running Kans squadrons again, apologies in order. More so to me, as I'm the one who got this hit on me in a friendly game when I first ran Kans. So, forgive the statement. And I still don't like buggies.


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but Ilike Kans more now.


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and Nobz on bikes with kombi-skorchas and 1 or 2 PK's are ALWAYS worth the points.

You dont have to apologize for not knowing/getting told wrong. Some people on here are a bit less polite then others. The squadron rule is talking about the vehicle that was immobilized. The crew of THAT vehicle abandon the vehicle. Just remember that when a squadron gets knocked down to 1 vehicle, then it follows the normal rules for a vehicle and no longer the squadron rules.

Buggies on the other hand.
How are you using them? They must have rokkits to be of any use(unless you want to play a fun/fluffy game then by all means change it) And they are TL, so on average you have a better chance of hitting something then with a BS3 rokkit. Rokkit buggies are definitely one ofthose units that have to be used right, or they just dont work.

ChrisCP wrote:The table (hopefully) isn't an open killing-field =)

Wouldnt make any difference if there are terrains, when you are turbo boosting 24 vs 36. There is only so much you can run away... Unless you want to run off the board.

striderx wrote:

ChrisCP wrote:The table (hopefully) isn't an open killing-field =)

Wouldnt make any difference if there are terrains, when you are turbo boosting 24 vs 36. There is only so much you can run away... Unless you want to run off the board.

He really does have a good point.

Yes and no - assuming a 'decent' amount and style of terrain, it becomes a short board edge battle for that list against a mobile gunline. Assuming no-bikes was forced to go second deploying slightly askew to the center would be optimal, with some nice high volume fire in a corner type position, the bike with a 24" shooting threat radius turn one will not be able to shoot vehicles on the board edge, keep at least two unit in reserve to come in and cover fire, on Mr. No-Bikes turn one they have a variety of options depending on how agressive the bikes were.
Aggressive - move up 12, check your between the two closest together squads, disembark, fleet and spread, one's going to be hitting at least two units, keep a second/trid boat hidden behine the empty one, in the mean time RJB will have turbo-ed after weathering some shooting from the lootas (possibly) hitting at least one unit and hiding behind lines/in trees. Anything that hasn't engaged will move either left or right where there is space etc etc - but this is a very visual exercise and hey we don't know the terraain or in what fashion someone mad enough to run the list would deploy in.

But one would only need to run for 2 turns, by then with quick strikes in and a couple of failed LD7 tests the 6, 3 man-small non-pw squads will have been tied in CC, in turn the walkers will either have to have blocked each otherinto assaults or be out of position (because after all you need to catch me I'm going to circle the DCCW if they are going to become close) Rokkits buggies - well they almost the whole list imo
*goes and learns to use vassel*
....
*This could take a while, now I rememeber why I try to not share my brain and tactics ^_^*

If I was forced to run a bike themed list (that included Wazzy) I think it would be similar to this \/

HQ
Wazdakka

Elites
Lootas x10
Lootas x10
Sniktrot x10
w/ 2 burnas


Troops
Gretchin x19
Bikers x5
w/ Nob, BC, BP
Bikers x5
w/ Nob, BC, BP
Bikers x5
w/ Nob, BC, BP
Bikers x6
w/ Nob, PK, BP
Bikers x6
w/ Nob, PK, BP

Fast Attack
Twin linked rokkit Buggies
Twin linked rokkit Buggies
Storm boys x15
w/ Nob, PK, BP

Which if my mental maths isn't too bad needs to lose one biker to be 2000pts

I'd say Kan Wall + Lootas with 2 KFF meks as one,

But the overall best I would say is the Gazghull + KFF + 3-5 BattleWagon List. Just so much crap to deal with and it all gets 4+ Obscurity...

ChrisCP wrote:Yes and no - assuming a 'decent' amount and style of terrain, it becomes a short board edge battle for that list against a mobile gunline. Assuming no-bikes was forced to go second deploying slightly askew to the center would be optimal, with some nice high volume fire in a corner type position, the bike with a 24" shooting threat radius turn one will not be able to shoot vehicles on the board edge, keep at least two unit in reserve to come in and cover fire, on Mr. No-Bikes turn one they have a variety of options depending on how agressive the bikes were.
Aggressive - move up 12, check your between the two closest together squads, disembark, fleet and spread, one's going to be hitting at least two units, keep a second/trid boat hidden behine the empty one, in the mean time RJB will have turbo-ed after weathering some shooting from the lootas (possibly) hitting at least one unit and hiding behind lines/in trees. Anything that hasn't engaged will move either left or right where there is space etc etc - but this is a very visual exercise and hey we don't know the terraain or in what fashion someone mad enough to run the list would deploy in.

I have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you are narrating here. It is either the English, or the complex scenario. In any case, it didnt bring your idea across, at least not on me.
Also, bikes have 30 inch shooting threat radius, not 24.

ChrisCP wrote:

MrDrumMachine wrote:I'll take a stab at this one. You're changing what you thought the whirlwind would be doing when you find out you're wrong. Whirlwinds suck, virtually nobody takes them in a serious list. Also you don't deal with them with your lootas.

I assume you’ve been following all along, so you’ll know I pulled WWs out as an easy example of a Large blast/cover denial. I never said I’d deal with them with lootas

Mike Noble wrote:Whirldwinds mean nothing, because no ones brings them anyway. Even if they did, they aren't a threat….and they will be gone pretty soon anyway from the Lootas.

MrDrumMachine wrote: You have a turbo boosting 4 shots from rokkits, and 9 more t/l rokkits from fast vehicles. Things that don't need LOS shouldn't live past turn 2 and if there's THAT much LOS blocking terrain and you're up against a shooty army, odds are you're much more maneuverable.

The list under discussion has no Deffkoptas… I think I missunderstood something here~?
And what you’ve said is your going to manoeuvre around a whole army to take out something hidden in turn two? – But theory hammer aside

MrDrumMachine wrote:The reason people don't have experience with this type of list is because it's just as fast as a SM bike army except a LOT shootier from the same range and at higher strength.

I don’t understand this comment, this ‘type of list’ you mean ork bikes or bikes in general or a MSU FA army?

MrDrumMachine wrote:Also your comments about DE are just wrong. Where are you getting the str 6 from? Void ravens or the razorwing? Razorwings are AV10 all around, void ravens are pretty cost prohibitive to take 3 so odds are you'll only see 2 at a time.

STR 6 comes from reavers

MrDrumMachine wrote:OHNOES I LOST MY LOOTAS WHAT SHALL I DO???? Oh wait. . . every other shot in my army can hurt every vehicle (except vect). Next please. And I mean really, "dance away?" How? This list is just as fast.

So you’re saying a 12” move is ‘just as fast as a 36” turbo boost 12” move and fire all weapons and is going to avoid an additional 6” range on all your shooting? Beasts with fleet and everything else? How are you going to catch something when your best move a 24” turbo boost and they do 36? It will be as I say, a dance, you’re going to have to move around the DT or stat taking the same test as the raiders.
To emphasise my disbelieve – You are saying Ork Bikes and walkers are just as fast as Dark Eldar, riiight.

MrDrumMachine wrote: Yes the walkers are slow and probably don't get to shoot turn one but 12", move, run is the same as how hive guard work and they don't suck right?

They don’t need LOS and don’t give cover too easily and have BS4 and cost the same and have two wounds…are you saying a squadron of BS3 guys who fall over from ½ the rolls on a damage chart and will lose their gun or CCW from another 2/3s to neuter it…. Is comparable? For raw effectiveness?

MrDrumMachine wrote:~List~ (whih I have a variety of issues with naturally
The inherent problem with this type of list is that your target priority is already set for you. Lootas kill koptas, some bikes kill opposing lootas and gretchin, everything else gets to side armor (and really side armor on a BW is like a mile long) and once the bikes are done they go for rear armor. You avoid CC with what's important (kans and lootas will die because they're they're slow and what's important is fast) and once you get rear armor on the BW then they really start disappearing. And like every other BW list you just run around praying you make cove saves, how tactically deep.

To look at it from the other side of the fence, there are 5 BW’s that fear nothing in you list except Kans, I’m going be tactically deep and drive at your largest or smallest concentration of points, disembark and multi-assault with waaagh turn two, you say you’re going to side armour my BWs but the player has run BWs enough time to know how to present only front armour for 190 odd degrees.

MrDrumMachine wrote:Your living lightning comment is interesting, are you suggesting 4 rune priests with living lightning +x? Where's a competitive list with that? Seriously. Oh you mean 1 with living lightning? Okay he gets d6 autocannon shots at one target, whoop dee doo. The 15 long fangs are scarier and OH YEAH YOU HAVE TONS OF FIRE. The list operates just fine with a portion of it neutralized

And did you really just suggest necrons? Lol.

The living lightening is going to hit you largest squad and force a Ld check every single turn. I never said 4 priests, and you know that 15 longs and a priest is quite common, you pointed it out, so why pretend you didn’t know what I was getting at?
Evey single thing in that style of SW list eats your units.
Necros is just an example of what is the list going to do against it? It’s going to sit there and P.whip-the-balls off you while you dance around with no answers. (imo atm)

And that is it in a nutshell, this list has no answers and one glaring weakness that everyone tells me to ignore and it doesn’t/won’t matter.
It has only units of 3 with one wound each which will be forced to take LD check that will fail more than 40% of the time. But to continue. Same situation for the vehicles, and finally it has large blobs of heavy weapons teams with 6+ saves…

To say the list is competetive/good is a crule joke on a new player reading about it

I hope I'm still seeming civil and open to discussion for you

First, quite civil. Sorry if I've been combative sounding in my posts, I'm just enthusiastic .

The unit I'm referring to with the turbo-boosting str 8 is wazzdakka himself, and while the shots are not twin linked it's not unexpected to get 1-2 hits a turn.

The reason people aren't experienced against this type of list is because with most SM bike lists you generally have a very large focal point to shoot at: the command squad. Sometimes there's 1, sometimes there's 2, but I've yet to see a decent bike list that doesn't max that squad out and dress it up to the 9's with wargear. This type of bike list has no such linchpin because it doesn't need it. The minimum strength of shot coming down field is 5 which can actually pen things like the raider, chimeras on the side and battlewagons on the rear.

Against the battlewagon list itself you'll start getting disembarked turn 1 possibly, turn 2 probably and then you might be charging 1/3 of the army because come on, only 1/3 of it is actually static, the rest is a great deal more mobile and with a refused flank setup the wagons have a long ways to get there or they expose their side armor to very high volume fire. If you want to take a Ghazz BW list then you're looking at reducing your starting fire base in favor of the longer charge which might do you some good, but you have to have your battlewagons survive and I don't see it being any easier when you can't reduce the amount of mobile firepower as well.

I'll admit the hive guard are somewhat of a bad comparison, but what the kans lack in shooting they make up in CC ability. The DCCW and 3 attacks on the charge is nothing to sneeze at compared to all of the nothing that you can rely on hive guard to do in CC except maybe tarpit for a few turns before they get rescued or die.

As far as the reavers are concerned they have to get their flyby in a straight line from their starting point, so first you have to get to the back field (easy) and then survive a turn of shooting (hard) and THEN you can do the caltrops and then hopefully you've got enough cover to prevent anybody from seeing them much less actually shooting at them. Now we're back into theoryhammer, but really do you expect the lootas to be further than 4-8" up and not in cover? If the DE are going 2nd I can't see anything good happening as the orks will dominate the midfield with their shooting being able to pen all of the DE vehicles. And night shields start to get expensive when you start looking at 6-7 vehicles with them especially on top of a flicker field. If you want to get more specific post an all comers DE list and I can break down the target priority better for you.

Space wolves is a hard match for orks every game but it comes down to volume fire and target priority. Having gone up against said long fangs with orks and lootas in particular I have had the displeasure, however they fail saves and the heavy weapons go away quick enough really. Their target priority is usually focused on the kans and the buggies, as it should be but with some decent cover saves the LF should be torrented by the lootas before you run out of kans/buggies. Again, show me a specific list because it feels like we're talking about lists where the opponent has 3 of everything and manages to fit it in 2000 points.

I agree with Mike Noble and that the inclusion of a KFF in a grot squad would greatly improve the overall survivability of the kans and list as a whole and he even showed an easy path to doing so with dropping only a few shots from the torrenting ability of the list as a whole.

striderx wrote:

ChrisCP wrote:Yes and no - assuming a 'decent' amount and style of terrain, it becomes a short board edge battle for that list against a mobile gunline. Assuming no-bikes was forced to go second deploying slightly askew to the center would be optimal, with some nice high volume fire in a corner type position, the bike with a 24" shooting threat radius turn one will not be able to shoot vehicles on the board edge, keep at least two unit in reserve to come in and cover fire, on Mr. No-Bikes turn one they have a variety of options depending on how agressive the bikes were.
Aggressive - move up 12, check your between the two closest together squads, disembark, fleet and spread, one's going to be hitting at least two units, keep a second/trid boat hidden behine the empty one, in the mean time RJB will have turbo-ed after weathering some shooting from the lootas (possibly) hitting at least one unit and hiding behind lines/in trees. Anything that hasn't engaged will move either left or right where there is space etc etc - but this is a very visual exercise and hey we don't know the terraain or in what fashion someone mad enough to run the list would deploy in.

I have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you are narrating here. It is either the English, or the complex scenario. In any case, it didnt bring your idea across, at least not on me.
Also, bikes have 30 inch shooting threat radius, not 24.

NS is the -6. Basically, even if DE are going second, the only thing that can't be tarpitted 2 for 1 by turn two is the lootas,
Now to put the lootas far enough in the backfield to actually make it difficult to reach means that you can actually flank that massive 48" (42") range. There is also only two squads so I don't see it as that much of a threat assmuing I've tarred them by then or made them flee.
The bikes are a huge threat to my paper planes, but it's nigh impossible unless my bionic eye stuffs up to have you shooting at me turn 1 the buggies are the single most damaging unit in the list, but 12(max deploy forwards)+12(Fast)+18(rokkit-NS) for a 42" threat, which isn't far enough to catch edge huggers even if you drive in a straight line.
So given no matter what DE should get an alpha strike @ -2 boats (if I couldn't hide from lootas WCS)
When this happens, assuming the bikes have moved forwards to try and deal damage, I know multi-assaults should be possible, also once the tarpits are down hopefully there will be an 'optimal' side to try to flank and pick off the closest problems.

That help? :( Sorry I'm usless with vassal)


MDM: I need to go now sorry, but yeah tommorrow I'll post an all-comers list and we'll keep banging heads

Buggies are fast attack, they have ten armor, and they are twin-linked...but I just didn't have a good run with them in a proxy game. They got shot, second turn no more buggies. My Deffkoptas sometimes make it the whole game and usually fly in and wipe out small marine troop choice or imperial LR's before even taking a wound. I just don't know if I'd be willing to sub out that fast attack option for buggies. I may run three of 'em instead of bikers though, keep my bikers nobz as troops with Warboss or Ghaz and another as Elite. As far as I know that is legal.
I run the bikers in squads of 3 as nobz and they also slaughter troops with their kombi skorcha's and TL Dakka. Maybe I'll just run a 5 man NOB bike squad and drop a Warboss on a Bike with 'em. They can still WAAAGH! yes or no? Circling rules looks like yes. To be fair to friends I played as no.




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Strategy for orks is to have something that can kill threats to your boyz. So I run Koptas to find blast template mofo's and kill them ASAP.
I big shoot at everything however, enough dice and people always roll some one's. Killed a Necron Lord or whatever his expenive as was with a big shoota, so sweet.
Alot of new stuff is anti-ork. You can strategy around it.
Learn your opponents pieces, and run something that can kill it.
I found the problem with Ork lists now is they don't have anything for these new anti-horde angles other than KFF. Don't bet your life on 5+saves, (4+ is ok to bet it with) run something that can and will kill what is killing your boyz.
This is why I suggest Deffkoptas over Buggies. As well as why I think artillery might want to be thought about for a competitive list. Especially why Lootas are a must.
It seems you fellows may be turning my head toward some buggies, but I'm not sure yet.
I think I might post a list in a day or 2, reaching 2000pnts even...hmmmmm

Okay here's pretty close to the DE list I hope to play this weekend if people still want to play after the apoc . Sorry it took all day work was well hectic!

1977[i]

HQ
3x Heamonculus -150
2x Heamonculus -100


Elite
3 Trueborn-146
3xBlasters, Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons
3 Trueborn-146
3xBlasters, Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons


Troop
5xWychs - 157
Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet, Haywire, Raider
5xWychs - 157
Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet, Haywire, Raider
5xWychs - 157
Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet, Haywire, Raider
5xWychs - 157
Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet, Haywire, Raider
5xWychs - 157
Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet, Haywire, Raider

These two squad might turn into Wracks - I'm almost certain, but no dex on hand!

Fast Attack
3x Reaver Jetbikes - 101
Caltrops, blaster
3x Reaver Jetbikes - 101
Caltrops, blaster

Heavy Support
Ravager-115
Night S.
Ravager-115
Night S.
Razorwing Bomber - 185
2xNecrotoxin, Nightsheilds, Flickerfield

If you get the chance please explain to me your list because I don't understand what's scary about it. You have 5 haemonculi that can't embark on the venoms I assume you were intending on them embarking on (passenger limit of 5 and all) only a few darklight weapons on AV 11 chasis, and I would really suggest the shatterfield missiles instead of the necrotoxin. At least then if you HAVE to you can shoot at a vehicle.

This thread should be in the Army List forum.

The best ork lists I've seen in action are the shooty kan wall I put together and my friend's biker list. I have mixed success with a trukk/nob-heavy list because it's fast and puts 20-35 nobz (depending on game size) on your ass turn two, but all trukk lists are fragile and risky.

Overall, kan wall is likely the easiest to pull off and probably the most boring. The list I ran, more or less:

Big Meks w/ KFF x 2 -170
45 lootas -675
Kans w/ Rokkits x9 - 450
Rokkit Buggies x9 - 315
Shoota Boyz x 30, Nob w/ PK, BSx3 - 235
Shoota Boyz x 12 w/ big shoota - 77
Shoota Boyz x 12 w/ big shoota - 77
1999

My points may be off, going off of memory. But more or less the gist. For Ard Boyz, added some grot bubble screens for the lootas and just more shoota boyz. Scaling down, dropped a loota squad or made them smaller.

18 rokkit shots (9 hits on average)
45-135 deffgun shots (90 on average, 30 hits average)
Plus crapload of shoota/big shoota shots

Usually everything had a cover save, so hard to get rid of units. A couple rounds of shooting from this would wipe most vehicles and/or monstrous creatures off the board, then the deffguns and shootas could polish off the rest.

Bad_Sheep37 wrote:Turning the Tables from Kan walls, the Wagon Rush was also mentioned. What do you guys think about it? Every time Ive run it, its either REALLY good, or gets stopped dead in its tracks. I feel its a little to shallow to be considered a "good" or even decent tourney list.

One has the option of playing defensively with a Kan Wall. 'Wagon Rush is one dimensional. This is especially true if one goes hard-core with Gaz and strips the Boss Poles off the Nobs and drops the Lootas and etc.

One thing the 'Wagon Rush has going for it, the game is usually over - one way or the other - quickly.

ChrisCP wrote:Okay here's pretty close to the DE list I hope to play this weekend if people still want to play after the apoc . Sorry it took all day work was well hectic!

1977
HQ
3x Heamonculus -150
2x Heamonculus -100


Elite
3 Trueborn-146
3xBlasters, Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons
3 Trueborn-146
3xBlasters, Venom w/2 Splinter Cannons


Troop
5xWychs - 157
Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet, Haywire, Raider
5xWychs - 157
Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet, Haywire, Raider
5xWychs - 157
Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet, Haywire, Raider
5xWychs - 157
Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet, Haywire, Raider
5xWychs - 157
Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet, Haywire, Raider

These two squad might turn into Wracks - I'm almost certain, but no dex on hand!

Fast Attack
3x Reaver Jetbikes - 101
Caltrops, blaster
3x Reaver Jetbikes - 101
Caltrops, blaster

Heavy Support
Ravager-115
Night S.
Ravager-115
Night S.
Razorwing Bomber - 185
2xNecrotoxin, Nightsheilds, Flickerfield

MrDrumMachine wrote:If you get the chance please explain to me your list because I don't understand what's scary about it. You have 5 haemonculi that can't embark on the venoms I assume you were intending on them embarking on (passenger limit of 5 and all) only a few darklight weapons on AV 11 chasis, and I would really suggest the shatterfield missiles instead of the necrotoxin. At least then if you HAVE to you can shoot at a vehicle.

Ooops, so that's what the spare 50 points was for =_=, as I said close to, lol.
20~DL weapons, and the Hames can actually fit on the bus now, but yeah i'll take it to Army lists so everyone else can rip it apart too

The list Skarboy posted seems good. 18 Rokkits and 45 Lootas sounds awesome.

If you have to go foot, I'd do Kan Wall, if you want to do speed freaks, do a bike list. I just don't like wagons that much. IG will destroy them in short order with Vendettas, and everyone else either has lots of Melta(Marines), or Lances(Eldar/DE) Even 3-4 Wagons won't last long.

Without taking up too much space. I offer a list based around the thread itself. Customizable and full of possibilities.
HQ- GHAZGHKULL THRAKA -225
HQ- Big Mek, KFF, 85pnts
(310)
TROOPS-
3 Nobz w/painboy, 2 big choppas, 2 kustom skorchas, 2 'eavy armors, 3 cybork bodies, 1 grot orderly, in a BW w/ 3 Big Shootas, red paint job, Deff Rolla, -275pnts (attach GHAZ)
20 SHOOTA Boyz, 2 big shootas, -130pnts
20 SHOOTA BOYZ 2 big shootas, -130pnts
20 SLUGGIN 'ARD BOYZ w/ard nob 2 big shootas, PK, -245pnts
(1090pnts so far)
FAST ATTACK
1 Deffkoptas w/ 1 TL rokkit, 1 Buzzsaw- 70pnts
1 Deffkoptas w/ 1 TL rokkit, 1 Buzzsaw- 70pnts
3 WARBUGGIES w/ 3 TL rokkits -105pnts
(1335pnts)
ELITE
3 Nob Bikers, 3 kombi-skorchas, 1 PK, - 175 pnts
3 Nob Bikers, 3 kombi-skorchas, , 1 PK, - 175 pnts
10 LOOTAS, -150pnts
(1835pnts)
HEAVY
1 KILLA KAN - 1 Blasta. -55pnts
1 KILLA KAN - 1 Blasta. -55pnts
1 KILLA KAN - 1 Blasta. -55pnts
(2000pnts)
Keep the ard boyz w/BM walkin behind the Kans, Shoota boyz to hold objectives not to waaagh! and embrace their boy nature, Nob bikers pick off troops and transports, they can handle heavy but don't try to CC with special CC's with them, shoot CC characters from afar. Knock out 20pnts to give the mek a burna isn't the worst idea you could have either, a PW in a 'ard nob group like that would be nice. Koptas scout turbo and then Turbo out of sight if your still not in range of shooting and chargin LR's or other big tankers with them on your first turn. Your bad playing not my fault, nor bad rolls. You play orks, you know how to use Lootas, just keep GHAZ alive until turn three with those boyz in The BW, around that time a WAAAGH! should decide the game for you unless you got unlucky. Even if it doesn't annhilate him, by turn 5 you are definately holding more obectives thanks to nob bikers annhilating any troop choice that can be fielded when properly used. even if your rolls aren't great they still succeed. BUGGIES should as far as I can guess, help thin out transports and meq's on your opponents side, I'd say specifically use them to kill walkers, walkers are bad for trotin boyz.)
(makin blastas rokkits give you 15more pnts. ropping a big Choppa on GHAZ's nobz give you the other five you need to 20pnt a burna on your MEK. I think this fits definition as a hard list in both fluff and play. Also, it allows you to be creative.It's footsloggin, with some speed, a single Kan Wall, and too many targets for a smart player to choose from to make playing against it easy turns for your opponents. It's also fun. Don't know how competitive in a tounrey though, but doubt alot of people are ready for it, anyone wanna play it for me and check?)




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also, is running mad dok in a group of ard boyz w/a ard nobz worth the points. They all get cybork bodies, FNP, and +4 normal saves with 2 PK's I believe, but...they have taht assault rule right? Not worth it?

At the minute it seems to be battlewagons orks, are the way to go and was just wondering whether or not this list would effective, and with 9 trucks and 9 War Buggies I think it would be quite effective on the tabletop up close and personal so what do you think.

HQ
Big Mek Choppa, Kustom Force Field

Elites
3x3 Meganobz Twin linked shoota
In Trukk

Troops
6x12 Ork Boys Nob Bosspole Power Klaw
In Trukk

Fast Attack
3x3 War Buggies Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha


1747 on the nose

or

Dred Bash 1750

So I must say at the very start that points are very tight trying to maximize and squeeze in as much as possible. The tactics involved in this list are very simple you simply run at the enemy at full speed every turn

Mek with KFF 85

Mek with KFF 85

Elites
12 lootas180
12 lootas180

I could take out two models from each squad to free up 60 points to spend elsewhere. Or alternatively I could simply have one squad 15 models to free up even more points

Total 360

Troops
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha 85
Deff Dread Dreadnought 2 skorcha 85

not enough points to equip these guys with anything more

30 slugga boyz nob PK, 215
30 slugga boyz, nob PK, 215
30 shoota boyz, nob PK, 215

If I could find the points I would equip these guys with 3 big shooters in each squads
Total 815

The backbone of the army 90 Boys

Killercan 3x120 grotzooka
Killercan 3x120 grotzooka
Killercan 3x120 grotzooka

currently cannot afford rockets would need to find points possibly could make them cheaper by big shooters etc.
Total 405

Total 1750

or

Just wondering what you guys think.

HQ
Big Mek Force Field Elites

Elites

2XMeganobz
Meganob 1 Twin linked shoota 2 Shoota/Rokkit Kombi (In Battle Wagons)
Battle Wagon Big Shoota , Deff Rolla , Grot Riggers , Red paint job

Troops
3X19 Ork Boys Slugga & Choppa Nob Bosspole , Power Klaw (In Battle Wagons)

Fast Attack
3X3 War Buggies Twin-linked Rokkit Launcha

Heavy Support
3X3Battle Wagon Big Shoota , Deff Rolla , Grot Riggers , Red Paint Job
1747pts

I like the second list. On a small board it owns. ON a big board you turbo boost, kill the lootas and force the kans to focus fire on fast attack. You'll see alot of players doing that. If Kans turn to do it they rock a 10 armor, even if they don't its an 11 armor and your troop choice will get eaten up.
Meganobz are good, but that's alot of Wagons, your own buggies can screw up a Battlewagon army, let alone other codex's. I know it loos good on paper, but against armies that averag ALOT of st8 melta and so on weapons, it gets frustrating when half your boyz are dying in explosions and you don't have anything to hold objectives. 8 Battlewagons though, awesome.
First one just looks really fun to play. enough guns would kill it though, so it wouldn't be good against another horde.
I'd say the second one has my vote, move 60pnts around like you said and you'll get more shootier with some units to fend off attacks like I mentioned. Otherwise a tactical player will be taking out your boyz and lootas faster then you want to.
People you play get better when you get better, and vice versa, so your list will eventually only be as good as you, no matter what you field.
(Nice point meshing by the way, awesome lists at 1750.)

Here's a Kan Wall list I wrote ages ago. Probably could get another Boyz unit in maybe with some slimming down.

Orks "Kan Wall" - 2,000 points

HQ

Big Mek - power klaw, KFF, cybork body & kombi skorcha

Big Mek - power klaw, KFF, cybork body & kombi skorcha

Elites

10 x Lootas

10 x Lootas

Troops

30 x Boyz - 3 x rokkits - nob w/ power klaw & bosspole

30 x Boyz - 3 x rokkits - nob w/ power klaw & bosspole

30 x Boyz - 3 x rokkits - nob w/ power klaw & bosspole

Fast Attack

1 x Deffkopter - twin-linked rokkits & buzzsaw

1 x Deffkopter - twin-linked rokkits & buzzsaw

1 x Deffkopter - twin-linked rokkits & buzzsaw

Heavy Support

3 x Killa Kans - 3 x rokkits

3 x Killa Kans - 3 x rokkits

3 x Killa Kans - 3 x rokkits

Total: 1990

And this is my Battlewagon Rush army:

Orks "'Ead Manglers Lads" - 2,000 points

HQ

1 x Warboss power klaw, attack squig & cybork body
1 x Big Mek burna, kustom force field & cybork body

Elite

5 x Lootas
5 x Lootas
5 x Nobz w/ Battlewagon power klaw, 2 x big choppas, waaagh! Banner, bosspole, cybork bodies & Painboy - Wagon w/ big shoota & boarding plank

Troops

6 x Nobz w/ Battlewagon power klaw, 4 x big choppas, waaagh! Banner, bosspole, 'eavy armour cybork bodies & Painboy - Wagon w/ big shoota & boarding plank
20 x Shoota Boyz Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole
20 x Shoota Boyz Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole
20 x Shoota Boyz Nob w/ power klaw & boss pole

Fast Attack

1 x Deffcopter 1 x twin-linked rokkits & 1 x buzzsaw
1 x Deffcopter 1 x twin-linked rokkits & 1 x buzzsaw

Heavy Support

1 x Battlewagon big shoota & deffrolla
1 x Battlewagon big shoota & deffrolla
1 x Battlewagon big shoota & deffrolla

Total: 2,000

Ork 1500 Battle Brigade UK GT List

HQ
(1) Big Mek Force Field
(2) Warboss : Bosspole , Cybork Body, Mega Armour

Elites
1X3 Meganobz 2 Twin linked shoota 1 Shoota/Skorcha
Battle Wagon Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Red paint job

Troops
1X3 Meganobz 2 Twin linked shoota 1 Shoota/Skorcha (HQ 2)
Battle Wagon Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Red paint job
3X18 Boy Slugga & Choppa Nob Bosspole, Power Klaw (In Battle Wagons 1 2 3 )

Heavy Support
(1) Battle Wagon Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, (HQ 1)
(2) Battle Wagon Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot, Riggers
(3) Battle Wagon Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Grot, Riggers

(1499pts Total)