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I just wanted to see what everyone thought was the most competitive ork list to ever hit the table. After running a BW rush, Speed Freaks, Green Tide, and Kan Wall, I must say that I am leaning towards the Green Tide and Kan Wall type lists.

What does Everyone else think? Throw in some list tactics while your at it and see how your list would fair against the other Waaaagggghhhers out there.

Go Go Netlists...

HQ-
Warboss w/ PK, cybork body, attack squig

Elites-
Lootas (15)
Lootas (15)
Burnas (12)

Troops-
Sluggaz (20) Nob w/ PK
Sluggaz (20) Nob w/ PK
Sluggaz (20) Nob w/ PK
Nobz (10) 4x PF, 6x 'Uge choppa, Painboy, cybork bodies
---Trukk w/ armor

'Eavy Support-
Looted wagon w/ armor [for the burnas]

Not the most optimized, but I won best general twice with this list, +/- a few odd ends. This comes out to ~1500. I'm going off of memory here so it may not be exact.

DashofPepper's 2500 mech list is about as solid as they come.

HQ1: Ghazghkull Thraka
HQ2: Big Mek with KFF and Powerklaw

Troop1: 7x Nobs, cybork bodies + wound shenanigans in dedicated transport battlewagon
Troop2: 16x Boyz, Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole
Troop3: 12x Trukk Boyz, Nob/Powerklaw/Bosspole + Trukk
Troop4: 10x Gretchin + Runtherder

Elite1: 15x Burnas
Elite2: 5x Lootas
Elite3: 5x Lootas

Fast Attack1: 3x Warbuggies with TL Rokkits
Fast Attack2: 1x Deffkopta, TL Rokkits + Buzzsaw
Fast Attack3: 1x Deffkopta, TL Rokkits + Buzzsaw

Heavy1: Battlewagon
Heavy2: Battlewagon (Deffrolla, Boarding Plank, Grabbin' Klaw, Armor Plates, Grot Riggers, Big Shoota).

It's straight up solid, an optimized tournament list. He's is, however, taking another look at the competitive appeal of the Ork codex in general. Orks simply aren't a top tier army any longer.

Smarteye: Do your nobz include a warboss? Otherwise the list is illegal

Speed freaks, all the way. They can move to where it counts and still pack a punch!

Geemoney wrote:Smarteye: Do your nobz include a warboss? Otherwise the list is illegal

He has a warboss.

Noir wrote:

Geemoney wrote:Smarteye: Do your nobz include a warboss? Otherwise the list is illegal

He has a warboss.

Doesn't change the fact that it's a terrible list

I've played so many different lists against so many different opponents that I have to say that there is no perfect list. Also, the mission you roll has a massive impact on your effectiveness. That being said, lots of 30-strong boyz mobs protected by a mek with a kustom force field, trucks full of meganobs and lots of deffkoptas or warbikers to shoot at rear armor will usually do pretty good. Don't bother with lootas unless you're willing to use a metric crapton of them. Seriously, when it comes to Orks, if it isn't twin-linked, it's just a noisy party-favor.

warpcrafter wrote:I've played so many different lists against so many different opponents that I have to say that there is no perfect list. Also, the mission you roll has a massive impact on your effectiveness. That being said, lots of 30-strong boyz mobs protected by a mek with a kustom force field, trucks full of meganobs and lots of deffkoptas or warbikers to shoot at rear armor will usually do pretty good. Don't bother with lootas unless you're willing to use a metric crapton of them. Seriously, when it comes to Orks, if it isn't twin-linked, it's just a noisy party-favor.

I agree with most of this. The lootas on the other hand. Ive seen people take 2x5 loota mobs and they swear by it. But I agree on taking alot of lootas.

Smart eye - Im guessing your putting the warboss with those nobs? But you stated 11 nobs, which is illegal. I wont say anything about the wound allocation, because I play nobs with minimal wound alocation alot of times (depends on who Im playing) and they are still hard as nails to take out.


My lists change often, I like playing different Ork builds and such. Sometimes just playnig a super fluffy Ork list is fun. Ive used Boomgun wagons enough to know that on good days, they more then make their points back. I actually field FlashGits, and can tell ya from experience, if you have enough of them, and use them right, they can just murder units.

Competitive wise, Id say Kan wall or BW rush. The problem I have with the BW rush though, is its easy to blow that apart. And when your super tough nobs/boyz are running across a field they get shot to pieces. Not saying it isnt good because it is, but thats the glaring weakness in that build. As far as hard hitting, I personally like the trukk/bw rush with KFF meks on either side of the mix. Its alot of fast moving trukks hammering one side of a line, and then the BW act as a second wave with the real heavy hitters. I have beat alot of tough players using that mix.

Green tide. When in a tournament, people will bring general lists, not specialized ones. So when you place 150 boyz on the table, I'm going to cry about the 4 lascannons in my list. Give all of the units nobz with Powerklaws, and some lootas in the back field. You will crush almost anything. And in objective games all you need to do is contest all the ones your opponent owns and just hold your home objective.

General_Chaos wrote:Go Go Netlists...

With the power of the internets combined, I, am captain Netlist!

I really could not be bothered with rewriting the song, I'll leave that to everyone else's imagination

I think any mech orks are pretty good. BW rush is Ok, but I think mass spamming vehicles is kind of better. Orks don't have any vehicles that are all that durable, so taking lots of them with a 4+ cover is the best way to survive. Rokkit buggies are a very good deal, and I think more people should use them, or use more of them

Also, many people don't consider it, but a Wazzdakka list maxed with firepower is very nasty. Its like a regular foot list except bikes are actually pretty good anti infantry with their TL Dakkaguns. Just dont try to assault with them, unless your fighting Tau or Guard or something.

Irdiumstern wrote:
Doesn't change the fact that it's a terrible list

So, why exactly? Or are you just happy to make a baseless comment without backup?

Either way, Skill will allways be > list. OP needs to point up a list, put it on Dakka for reveiw, then play alot of games to get used to the playstyle. Internet advice allways pales in comparison to RL experience.

Smarteye wrote:

Irdiumstern wrote:
Doesn't change the fact that it's a terrible list

So, why exactly? Or are you just happy to make a baseless comment without backup?

Either way, Skill will allways be > list. OP needs to point up a list, put it on Dakka for reveiw, then play alot of games to get used to the playstyle. Internet advice allways pales in comparison to RL experience.

This is completely true. I used to play in a group years ago, that had a guy in it that was just so damn good at playing. He actually would let US build a list for him, and chances were, he would win. Skill and play style goes a LONG way. Infact the reason I started using Flashgits was because of a battle rep I read on here. I forgot the users name, but for fun he build a pretty big Flashgits list to play. He was a tourny player, and used it against a couple guys he knows that have won many tournies with the armies they brought. And he won alot of those games, with FlashGits. FLASHGITS!

That obviously takes alot of skill.

Dash of Pepper pretty much mastered that list and is one of the top players in the country.

Smarteye wrote:HQ-
Warboss w/ PK, cybork body, attack squig

Elites-
Lootas (15)
Lootas (15)
Burnas (12)

Troops-
Sluggaz (20) Nob w/ PK
Sluggaz (20) Nob w/ PK
Sluggaz (20) Nob w/ PK
Nobz (10) 4x PF, 6x 'Uge choppa, Painboy, cybork bodies
---Trukk w/ armor

'Eavy Support-
Looted wagon w/ armor [for the burnas]

Not the most optimized, but I won best general twice with this list, +/- a few odd ends. This comes out to ~1500. I'm going off of memory here so it may not be exact.

It's a terrible list because it relies entirely on 2 loota squads to de-mech your opponent and while yes, you have a decent shot at killing ~2 light vehicles a turn, if you go up against a really strong all comers list you'll fold like tissue paper because once your lootas are dead you're swinging on 6s to hurt them. Your nob unit is in a trukk which is the worst transport in the game, it's the only transport other than the wagon and both can be popped (and really should be on turn 1) by small arms fire much less anything that could be considered anti-tank. Your nob squad is also way overkill, yes, you will kill whatever they happen to charge but if your opponent is smart and what's in range of them is something that a nob unit of 4 could kill then you just wasted an assault.

You have no KFF, no grot screen, no kans, and I really don't know what armies you would be playing that you could realistically do well with this list against.

There, backup as to why it's bad. And right back at ya, why is it good?

On topic:
There are a lot of different ways to play orks but only a couple effective ways and they vary at different points levels. I play at 2000 most of the time so that's where I build my lists. At this level you can do well enough with 4 battlewagons w/ deff rollas and a medium nob squad with some loota support and a gretchin unit to cover a back field objective, but then you'll really struggle against wolves and IG. If it wasn't so cost prohibitive I would happily run a list like:
HQ
Wazdakka

Warboss - pk, bike, klaw

Elites
Lootas x5

Lootas x5

Lootas x5

Troops
Nobs x6 - bikes, painboy and wound allocation

Warbikers x5 - Nob, Pk, bosspole

Warbikers x5 - Nob, Pk, bosspole

Warbikers x5 - Nob, Pk, bosspole

Warbikers x5 - Nob, Pk, bosspole

Warbikers x5 - Nob, Pk, bosspole

Fast
Rokkit Buggies x3

Rokkit Buggies x3

Rokkit Buggies x3

With my example list you get very high mobility, the ability to crack or at least stun/shake a fair number of vehicles a turn and while land raiders will certainly be a problem you really should be mobile enough to kill anything outside of that landraider with either massed torrent fire from the bikers or a good charge from the biker unit with wazdakka and the warboss attached. Yes the lootas will die, so what? If they're focused on the lootas then good for them because odds are against them KILLING much, just harassing while the rest of your army can get to rear/side firing arcs and do damage.

As for a foot list I made this.

Warboss-Pk,attack squig,bosspole
Grotsnik

14 Kommandoes-2 Burnas,Snikrot,Cybork Bodies
15 Lootas
15 Lootas

30 Shootas-PK/BP Nob
30 Shootas-PK/BP Nob
30 Shootas-PK/BP Nob
17 Gretchin-Runtherd

3 Kannon-3 extra crew,3 ammo runts,runtherd
3 Kannon-3 extra crew,3 ammo runts,runtherd
3 Kannon-3 extra crew,3 ammo runts,runtherd

2000 points


It has good enough firepower, but I'd be concerned without a KFF, which may be worth taking over the Warboss. I figure you can use terrain to get some cover.

Now, you could drop the kommando unit altogether and take a KFF and more lootas, but it seems unnecessary to me.

Few questions on that one.

Whats the purpose of Grotsnik in the list? You didnt take anything worth giving cyborks on that cannont take cybork.

Theres no nobz mobs at all. So what are you planning on taking out tough targets/acting tough?

And although Ive used 9 kannons before and they pump out an impressive amount of ap3 krak shots, they are blown up rather easy with nothing to cover them/protect them

This list needs a KFF mek something fierce, and the kommandos seem a bit out of place in this list. 30 lootas are plenty, taking more is wasting points.

My gaming group tends to run 1250 points due to time constraint. I ran this list last week with success.

HQ:
KFF Mech

Troops:
30x Sluggas
-Nob w/PK

30x Sluggas
-Nob w/PK

30x Sluggas
-Nob w/PK

-Deff Dread
-2x CCW

Heavy:
3x Killa Kans
-Grot Zookas

3x Killa Kans
-Grot Zookas

3x Killa Kans
-Rockets

It did pretty well and rather liked the Deff Dread. Hes not the most competitive choice, but it was still pretty sweet. I found that the Kans turned the tide of the game in close combat. They became a huge tar pit for my opponent because he was having a tough time hitting AV11 and 12 in CC.

The more I read about kan walls, the more I want to just get off my ass and flip my army to one. Im slowly doing it, and it will be a kan wall but with some minor differences here and there. But they are just hard as nails in most situations. And the cover saves + all the bodies just make it so hard to take out

Yeah man the Kan walls are pretty great. I have found in most situations, its best to get EVERYTHING into CC. The rockets and the grotzookas are great, but you can literally stop units dead in their tracks when you throw 3 kans into them.

I am also a huge huge fan of the Deff Dread. AV 12 in CC is a pretty tough thing to crack sometimes. Not to mention when you have at least 90 boyz to back everything up.

What changes were you planning on making to your Kan Wall army? I was hoping to run a large Nobz squad on Foot. People tend to not run them like that, but if your sporting a 4+ cover save, 4+ FNP and 2 wounds...your going to make it passed turn 1 and be in CC by turn 2.

Wow, OP, what a good idea this is, awesome reading for Greenskin players.

As a newbie somewhat, I have started using a Kan Wall and love it to bits, once if have my army fully bought I plan on running something like this:

1000 Points:

Big Mek w/ KFF

30 Slugga Boyz w/ PK/BP Nob

30 Slugga Boyz w/ PK/BP Nob

2 Deffcoptas w/ Twin-Linked Rokkits

3 x 3 Kans w/ Grotzookas

This list is seriously good at 1000 points as not many players have enough anti-tank to take on 9 walkers. I agree that the best thing to do is get everytrhing in CC, hence the reason I take Sluggas instead of Shootas.

The Kan Wall begins to lose its lustre at 2000+ pts because your opponent can fill out the list with things that can kill Kans (and invariably does, this is a mech heavy environment still) while you have exhausted your Kan quota.

Not saying the Kan wall is a poor option for Orks, simply pointing out that if you are primarily playing lower-point games, you'll get a different impression than at higher levels.

And with the introduction of the SW and BA codices, I think Orks have lost a lot of lustre in general. If I had to take an Ork army to a tourney it would probably be a Kan wall or a Battlewagon list with shoota boyz because those are generalist units able to weather fire decently well and have large threat radiuses.

You wouldn't catch me ever trying to play Green Tide or Speed Freaks because going second against a Space Wolf list with 420 points' worth of missile launchers means you just put your models back in the case. Speed Freaks also aren't nearly fighty enough against Blood Angels while still being vulnerable to getting shot up horribly.

Well I had to play vs. a Kan Wall with 30 lootaz, at Austin in the BOLScon tourney this year, with space wolves, and I found it nearly insurmountable, It wasn't possible to survive a deep strike into a a location to hit the lootaz, as the entire half of the board was packed and there was no where to drop, and of course survivng the lootaz alone was nearly impossible.

I will say this, it does require an awfully liberal interpretation of the LOS rules to shoot through ranks of can walls and boys with 45 lootaz, as LOS is really hard to draw with that many models.

But according to RAW if each model sees even one teeny scrap of an enemy base or fig through all the legs of the cans they get the shots.

If the lootaz roll well I have never seen any army put out that kind of firepower.

Mileage may vary.

Smarteye wrote:Either way, Skill will allways be > list.

I agree slightly but, I think it has more to do with the skill of your opponent. When you play a "crap" list and your opponent doesn't know how to exploit it's weaknesses it doesn't make you a skilled player. It just means you need better opponents.

Bad_Sheep37 wrote:Yeah man the Kan walls are pretty great. I have found in most situations, its best to get EVERYTHING into CC. The rockets and the grotzookas are great, but you can literally stop units dead in their tracks when you throw 3 kans into them.

I am also a huge huge fan of the Deff Dread. AV 12 in CC is a pretty tough thing to crack sometimes. Not to mention when you have at least 90 boyz to back everything up.

What changes were you planning on making to your Kan Wall army? I was hoping to run a large Nobz squad on Foot. People tend to not run them like that, but if your sporting a 4+ cover save, 4+ FNP and 2 wounds...your going to make it passed turn 1 and be in CC by turn 2.

Just to add, its a 5+ cover for troops, 4+ on vehicles for any new guys that might of confused.

And to answer, Its basically going to be a Kan wall, pretty much to the point with some of the tougher players I play against. But the changes for when Im teaching people/playing for fun will be more FlashGits for one. Im wanting to mess around with an idea of taking 2 full FlashGits mobs, so 9 gits with painboys shootier and more dakka (because blastas just kill your own gits and they are too costly for that to happen) basically being counter attack/protecting the lootas from deep strikers and flankers and the like. I seriously LOVe me some FlashGits, they can really kick ass when they are used right.

Also Ill be taking 2 KFF meks for maximum coverage of the KFF. And for bigger games, even thinking of fitting in 2 dreds as well as the kans in the wall. I should probably work out some lists to really get a better idea, as of right now, its just ideas lol. Hell Ive got a ton of slugga boyz to convert into shoota boyz anyways. As of right now, Im lucky in the fact my group just lets me say "uhm all the sluggas on the table, are actually shoota boyz"

Augustus wrote:Well I had to play vs. a Kan Wall with 30 lootaz, at Austin in the BOLScon tourney this year, with space wolves, and I found it nearly insurmountable, It wasn't possible to survive a deep strike into a a location to hit the lootaz, as the entire half of the board was packed and there was no where to drop, and of course survivng the lootaz alone was nearly impossible.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think SW easily have what it takes to put the Kan/loota army to bed. 15-20 missiles can put paid to 30 lootas pretty easily in 2 turns, and turn 3 can be spent plinking the Kans off. Twulf Cav can also wreck Kans and mobs alike. And this is a generic template for a SW tourney list so I think it's a valid comparison. Again, I'm not disagreeing with you, merely pointing out that even hard Ork lists have generally a hard uphill battle against other common tourney lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

General_Chaos wrote:

Smarteye wrote:Either way, Skill will allways be > list.

I agree slightly but, I think it has more to do with the skill of your opponent. When you play a "crap" list and your opponent doesn't know how to exploit it's weaknesses it doesn't make you a skilled player. It just means you need better opponents.

I actually disagree. In 40k the list and your matchup is going to get you 70%+ of the way there. That's why Netlists are so popular; they work. Now, if a player completely sucks, then a good list won't save him. Similarly a great player can make a poorer list work. You could be Jesus on iceskates, though, and you're not going to take on an average player with a tricked out IG chimera wall if you're playing Grey Knights.

I think this is more apparent in a truly unforgiving game like Warmachine/Hordes than in 40k, which is why the sentiment gets thrown around a lot.

sourclams wrote:

Augustus wrote:Well I had to play vs. a Kan Wall with 30 lootaz, at Austin in the BOLScon tourney this year, with space wolves, and I found it nearly insurmountable, It wasn't possible to survive a deep strike into a a location to hit the lootaz, as the entire half of the board was packed and there was no where to drop, and of course survivng the lootaz alone was nearly impossible.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think SW easily have what it takes to put the Kan/loota army to bed. 15-20 missiles can put paid to 30 lootas pretty easily in 2 turns, and turn 3 can be spent plinking the Kans off. Twulf Cav can also wreck Kans and mobs alike. And this is a generic template for a SW tourney list so I think it's a valid comparison. Again, I'm not disagreeing with you, merely pointing out that even hard Ork lists have generally a hard uphill battle against other common tourney lists.

OK.

As a small counterpoint though, the cagey player I played against spaced his lootaz out 2 inches, so the frag blasts would only get 1 each, and the drop zone was really minimized, It wasn't the clear cut case of taking them out with frag missiles you outlined, especially with shooting through the boys/kan wall and shooting through the power field, they all got 4+ cover saves, I could have fired frag missiles at them all game and never killed them. Versus when he shot back, the cover save meant nothing...

What hurt the guy was when JOTWW killed his powerfield,.. but thats a very specific tactic for a single match that's probably not adding much here.

Turning the Tables from Kan walls, the Wagon Rush was also mentioned. What do you guys think about it? Every time Ive run it, its either REALLY good, or gets stopped dead in its tracks. I feel its a little to shallow to be considered a "good" or even decent tourney list.

When i say BW Rush i mean something like this.

HQ:
KFF Mech

Troops:
20x Sluggas (Battle Wagon)
-Nob w/PK
-BP

20x Sluggas (Battle Wagon)
-Nob w/PK
-BP

20x Sluggas (Battle Wagon)
-Nob w/PK
-BP

Fast attack:
Suicide Kopta
-Buzz Saw

Suicide Kopta
-Buzz Saw

Elites:
7x Nobz (Battle Wagon)
-Diversified
-Pain Boy

7x Nobz (Battle Wagon)
-Diversified
-Pain Boy

Heavy:
5x Battle Wagons
-Deff Rolla
-Red Paint
-Big Shoota

Or something to that effect. I typically run Burnas in there and take out a mob of 20 boyz. So what are the thoughts on this style? I actually had much better luck when i ran 3 Wagons with 4 Trukks to support them...not sure what everyone else thinks.