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No, it dispelled them. How? Because when Slaanesh was born, all of the fury in those storms was sucked into him/her ripping his way out into existence, and then pouring out to create the Eye of Terror. Think of it like boiling water, then dropping a giant cube of ice in. The ice 'calms' the water by taking in its energy.

And no because the birth of Slaanesh killed all the Eldar like flicking off a light switch, so it didn't matter how long after the Fall the Emperor launched his crusade, the majority of the Eldar would have been dead either way.

I was always told it was the other way around. Well that goes to show you how much the guys a GW Stoke know about the 40k background.

Asgeirr Darkwolf wrote:To bad, then, that the Emperor can only sit on the golden toilet.

Codex: Chaos Daemons says otherwise, given that the codex specifically says that the Emperor's constant activity and vigilance is the only reason humanity isn't being dominated by Chaos.

Ive got another bit of contradictory fluff.
In tales of heresy.


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I think I preffer to belive whats in the HH novels rather than the DE codex.

It could always be that they are referring to pre-Fall Eldar doing the raiding, and that the natives just fail to recognize thew difference.

Possibly, but they used the same tech as the DE and if the were pre DE then they'de have used wriath bone.
Plus the DE wouldnt have been collecting the humans for so long becasue the only reason the kill is to survive. well partly anyway.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
wait thats wrong of course they wouldnt be using wraith bone when the SW turned up

I'm pretty sure that the Dark Eldar are meant to be what the average pre-Fall Eldar. And why wouldn't they be collecting humans? A pre-Fall Eldar race would probably LOVE lots of little mon-keigh slaves to.....'experiment' with.

It would make sense that the Eye of Terror calms the warp, it must release ENOURMOUS amounts of energy from the warp. The fact that chaos forces can reside in there is just a side effect of them being tainted by their gods IMO

I was always under the impression that the initial human expansion into space was immediately following the fall of the Eldar, which left a huge power vaccum that was swiftly filled by the upstart race. As other posters have pointed out, it's unlikely that pre-fall Eldar would have tolerated human colonists, especially given that the heart of their Empire (now the EoT) was located almost directly next to Terra.

I am sure that the Age of Strife was caused by the increased emergence of human pyskers and had little to do with the Eldar. And it is clear that humanity was widespread before the Emperor began his reclamation.

The galaxy is a big place, and it is mentioned that human and Eldar came into conflict during humanity's phase of expansion.

Hell, they probably were in a state of all out war most of the time....that or by the time humanity began to spread the Eldar were so pre-occupied with their own pleasure and so arrogant that they didn't consider humanity a threat at all, and didn't really care that this new race was spreading across the galaxy.

The Eldar have been in lament since the War in Heaven and it's also worth bearing in mind that the Craftworld Eldar are basically religious fundamentalists who railed against the slow decline and hedonistic decadence of the Eldar Empire for millennia before the Fall so I'm sure that informs the Eldrad quote from the Codex.

The Fall itself occured just prior to the Great Crusade as already mentioned with the Age of Strife occuring roughly around the twenty-fifth millennium. It is also true that the warp storms which cut Earth off from the rest of human controlled space were caused by the nightmares of Slaanesh; these also affected many other races other than the Eldar, like Humanity for example.

The Eldar civilisation had been in decline for many thousands of years and the creation of Slaanesh was slow and insidious. Where once the Eldar's shadow-selves, or souls, had melted back into the warp upon their deaths and then been reborn (similar problem for the ancient Shamen of Earth which lead to the creation of the New Man) the slow creation of Slaanesh meant that these souls were instead consumed, lending every more power to the nascent Slaanesh. The Eldar tried to deny their Dark Nature as they term it and this is what caused such torment for Slaanesh and brought about the warp storms which ushered in the Age of Strife. When Slaanesh was finally born its warp scream blew out the warp storms and consumed the majority of the Eldar's shadow-selves, the warp spilling into the material universe and creating numerous warp/real space overlaps with the Eye of Terror as the most significant.

ChrisWWII wrote:The galaxy is a big place, and it is mentioned that human and Eldar came into conflict during humanity's phase of expansion.

Yes, as pirates and/or raiders. Given that the Eldar were far more powerful (if not as widespread) as the Imperium at it's height, the idea that a newly formed race would have been allowed to just walk straight in an colonise the better part of the Empire, such as Cadia, is questionable. How then do we explain the widespread nature of humans before the unification?

Well, I provided my own explanation in my post. The Eldar were probably too much into their own pleasure/too arrogant for them to really care about humanity.

Not to mention, it seems almost every single Eldar who was not opposed to the ideals of the Fall seemed to live on the Eldar home worlds in what's now the Eye of Terror. It could easily be that the Eldar Empire had collapsed enough by the time humanity began to expand that no one was left to oppose human expansion in most parts of the galaxy.

Emperors Faithful wrote:How then do we explain the widespread nature of humans before the unification?

ChrisWWII wrote:The Eldar were probably too much into their own pleasure/too arrogant for them to really care about humanity.

This is pretty much the explanation given on page four of Codex Eldar; they were, 'justifiably dismissive of alien barbarians.' Don't forget that Humanity was a lot different during the Great Expansion. Even though there were alien wars for an Empire as powerful as that of the Eldar, who it should be reiterated are a dreadfully conceited race even after the Fall and more so beforehand, Humans would have been almost irrelevant.

The Codex also points out that the true height of the Eldar Empire was about a million years before the Fall so when Humanity began to spread out into the stars the Eldar were a people already in decline, almost at the brink of destruction, and as such less likely to have reacted with overwhelming force to the odd human colony here and there.

The other way to look at it however is that Humanity used Terraforming frequently which suggests that a lot of unsuitable worlds were colonised. For all we know the Eldar did massacre human colonies encroaching into their space, with poor interstellar communication coupled with a high risk to colony ships anyway, who would've known about such attacks, there would have been no survivors. In that case humans were free to colonise anywhere the Eldar didn't care about, as befits such under-evolved mon'keigh barbarians.

Gogsnik wrote:
This is pretty much the explanation given on page four of Codex Eldar; they were, 'justifiably dismissive of alien barbarians.' Don't forget that Humanity was a lot different during the Great Expansion. Even though there were alien wars for an Empire as powerful as that of the Eldar, who it should be reiterated are a dreadfully conceited race even after the Fall and more so beforehand, Humans would have been almost irrelevant.

The Codex also points out that the true height of the Eldar Empire was about a million years before the Fall so when Humanity began to spread out into the stars the Eldar were a people already in decline, almost at the brink of destruction, and as such less likely to have reacted with overwhelming force to the odd human colony here and there.

So if the Fall of the Eldar were responible for the abating of the warp storms around Terra (and the subsequent Crusades), what was the cause of the Age of Strife, seeing that humanity was widespread at the point?

The other way to look at it however is that Humanity used Terraforming frequently which suggests that a lot of unsuitable worlds were colonised. For all we know the Eldar did massacre human colonies encroaching into their space, with poor interstellar communication coupled with a high risk to colony ships anyway, who would've known about such attacks, there would have been no survivors. In that case humans were free to colonise anywhere the Eldar didn't care about, as befits such under-evolved mon'keigh barbarians.

Eldar were also know to create 'Maiden Worlds', so terraforming was likely not practiced by humans to a greater extent.

The cause of the Age of Strife isn't specifically stated. It's probably cause of the Eldar decadence feeding energy into proto-Slaanesh, making the Warp more powerful, plus humanity spreading and multiplying extremely quickly.

Even if human soul only has a tiny impact on the warp, the trillions and trillions of humans probably provided a LOT of fuel.

Emperors Faithful wrote:...what was the cause of the Age of Strife...

I mentioned it earlier; the creation of Slaanesh caused the Age of Strife. The Eldar tried to resist their Dark Nature and this caused much pain and distress to the nascent Slaanesh. The screams and self-tormenting nightmare of Slaanesh turned the warp into an virtually unpassable maelstrom of boiling energies and the mortal races were afflicted with insanity. These birthing pangs were so powerful they weakened the other Chaos Gods and when Slaanesh was finally born it blew out the warp storms and for a time there was relative calm.

Eldar were also know to create 'Maiden Worlds', so terraforming was likely not practiced by humans to a greater extent.

What do the Maiden Worlds have to do with Human terraforming? The pre-Fall Maiden Worlds were all destroyed during the Fall and were situated within Eldar space so like I say, these worlds would have been protected by the Eldar against encrouaching Human settlers forcing humans to look elsewhere. We also know that Terraforming was often employed so perhaps, I'm not saying it did happen just that it's possible, that the reason Humanity was largely left alone by the Eldar was that they were not claiming worlds of significance to the Eldar.

Gogsnik wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:...what was the cause of the Age of Strife...

I mentioned it earlier; the creation of Slaanesh caused the Age of Strife. The Eldar tried to resist their Dark Nature and this caused much pain and distress to the nascent Slaanesh. The screams and self-tormenting nightmare of Slaanesh turned the warp into an virtually unpassable maelstrom of boiling energies and the mortal races were afflicted with insanity. These birthing pangs were so powerful they weakened the other Chaos Gods and when Slaanesh was finally born it blew out the warp storms and for a time there was relative calm.

I am honestly confused here. Some posters are arguing that the creation of Slaanesh (synonomous with the Fall of the Eldar, yes?) caused the warp storms around Terra to abate, allowing the start of the Great Crusade. On the other hand I blame the Age of Strife on the birth of Slaanesh, which were the cuase of the warp storms. I'm not sure where you stand on this, did the Eldar Fall occur just prior to the Age of Strife or just prior to the Crusades?

Eldar were also know to create 'Maiden Worlds', so terraforming was likely not practiced by humans to a greater extent.

What do the Maiden Worlds have to do with Human terraforming? The pre-Fall Maiden Worlds were all destroyed during the Fall and were situated within Eldar space so like I say, these worlds would have been protected by the Eldar against encrouaching Human settlers forcing humans to look elsewhere. We also know that Terraforming was often employed so perhaps, I'm not saying it did happen just that it's possible, that the reason Humanity was largely left alone by the Eldar was that they were not claiming worlds of significance to the Eldar.

It's well documented that the cuase of many Eldar attacks on the current Imperium is due to the fact that in ages past humans colonized Maiden Worlds. True, many if not most Maiden Worlds were destroyed along with the fall, but there were planets which the Eldar terraforming process had either just begun or was still underway and after the fall were left uncolonized. All I'm saying is that even in it's decline there are signs that show that Eldar Empire was apparently still expanding. It is possible, and I would say ironic, that at one point humanity was in a siutation much like the Tau are in today. And given that humanity wielded technology with some prowess the likeness is even more apparent. Maybe the Eldar did at one point try to eradicate humanity? It would explain why humanities expansion stretched so far into the Galactic East.

...I've sort of gone off on a tangent there.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I am honestly confused here. Some posters are arguing that the creation of Slaanesh (synonomous with the Fall of the Eldar, yes?) caused the warp storms around Terra to abate, allowing the start of the Great Crusade. On the other hand I blame the Age of Strife on the birth of Slaanesh, which were the cuase of the warp storms. I'm not sure where you stand on this, did the Eldar Fall occur just prior to the Age of Strife or just prior to the Crusades?

I did also mention this earlier but, the Age of Stife began around the twenty-fifth millennium caused by the nascent Slaanesh (responsible for both warp storms and a general infliction of insanity, explaining both how and why Human worlds were cut off from one another and most often degenerated into anarchy although other alien species were similarly effected). The Fall occured due to the birth of Slaanesh as a fully conscious god just prior to the Great Crusade (the Emperor was aware of what was happening and used Earth's period of isolation to Unify the Sol System and create the Primarchs) and it was at that point that the Emperor was able to launch the Great Crusade.

It's well documented that the cuase of many Eldar attacks on the current Imperium is due to the fact that in ages past humans colonized Maiden Worlds.

There is only the current Imperium, it didn't exist before the Fall. In any case the Eldar Codex says that modern Eldar refer to these seeded planets as Maiden Worlds (I didn't make that distinction earlier) and so the Maiden Worlds as a term are post-Fall. The Codex goes on to say that the Maiden Worlds have been discovered and settled by other races since the Fall, not beforehand. In that case it would seem that any worlds seeded by the Eldar pre-Fall were never colonised or approached by other races for whatever reason and hence the Eldar would not have had conflict with early Human settlers.

Of course, assuming that the Eldar were aware of Humans colonising worlds, and there is no reason to suppose they did not, maybe they didn't care, afterall their Empire was pre-eminent and they believed it would continue to remain so. Like you say though, Humanity spread mainly to the galactic East so maybe they were not allowed to get near enough to the Eldar Empire to cause a problem, maybe those earlier Humans weren't trying to build an Empire like the Tau and, being in no position to attack the Eldar anyway. took the hint and kept away. Maybe they were happy to do so, maybe the Eldar were happy to let them, maybe they had an understanding. Just because the Imperium is psychotically xenophobic there is no reason to suppose that earlier Humans were the same, especially in the face of the Eldar Empire.

I would second that. The majority of Imperial worlds seem to lie to the galactic east, south and west, with relatively few worlds stretching very far north of Terra.

This probably represents where the Eldar began raiding human colonization efforts.....I think I recall some fluff saying that Cadia wasn't colonized till AFTER the Horus Heresy. Since Cadia is described as a very Earth like world, I can't help but think the reason it was colonized so late was Eldar protection and interference up until their civilization was destroyed.

The Fall of the Eldar has been listed as happening Ten thousand years prior to current history in 40k, which is M41 as we all know so, the Fall of the Eldar would have been in M31.

So Slaanesh's birth would have ended the Age of Strife not started it.

You could still view Slaanesh as a direct cause of the Age of Strife I suppose if you view the warp storms as Slaanesh forming it's self in the warp making it turbulent. Then the God's birth refocused the storms into the Eye of Terror creating one large warp rift in the heart of the Eldar Empire.

Also EF Terra and Cadia aren't right next to one another. Cadia and the Eye of Terror are located in the outskirts of the Segmentum Obscurus, where as Terra is located in the center of the Segmentum Solar. Terra is located near Armageddon.

BrotherStynier wrote:So Slaanesh's birth would have ended the Age of Strife not started it.

You could still view Slaanesh as a direct cause of the Age of Strife I suppose if you view the warp storms as Slaanesh forming it's self in the warp making it turbulent. Then the God's birth refocused the storms into the Eye of Terror creating one large warp rift in the heart of the Eldar Empire.

I think you're confusing the sequence of events (laid down as far back as The Lost and The Damned, this is not just a theory). The Age of Strife was directly caused by the nascent Slaanesh; it took many thousands of years for Slaanesh to develop and it was during this time, whilst the warp was pregnant with Slaanesh if you will, that Slaanesh, during its nightmares and temper tantrums, caused the Age of Strife to begin. When Slaanesh was finally born as a fully realised and conscious warp god the Age of Strife ended and the Age of Imperium began.

The warp storms abated in the moment of Slaanesh's birth. The creation of the Eye of Terror and various other warp/real space overlaps were caused when Slaanesh consumed the Eldars' souls, trillions of them, and the raw stuff of Chaos boiled strait out of their minds and into the material universe.

Thats what I said more or less, that Slaanesh being born was the end of the Age of Strife and it being formed/dreaming was what caused it.

BrotherStynier wrote:Also EF Terra and Cadia aren't right next to one another. Cadia and the Eye of Terror are located in the outskirts of the Segmentum Obscurus, where as Terra is located in the center of the Segmentum Solar. Terra is located near Armageddon.

To look at it from a Galactic Standpoint, they are pretty close. Not right on top of each other's doorstep, but there is a reason why Cadia is so important in it's role as a fortress.

EDIT: Until now, Gogsnik, I had always thought that the Eldar Fall and birth of Slaanesh occured millenia before the Crusades. Your well thought out and digestible posts have convinced me otherwise.

The reason isn't solely the protection of Terra, the Cadian Gate prevents Chaos from being able to leave the Eye and knowing precisely where they are coming out. The rest is a raging warp strom more or less and will throw them out where ever.

BrotherStynier wrote:The reason isn't solely the protection of Terra, the Cadian Gate prevents Chaos from being able to leave the Eye and knowing precisely where they are coming out. The rest is a raging warp strom more or less and will throw them out where ever.

The Eye of Terror is such a vast threat that warrants an entire sector of fortresses precisely becuase it is so close to the cradle of mankind. If the EoT was out somewhere in the fringe of Imperial space, maybe the the Ghost Stars, then the measures taken to ensure that Chaos is bottle in would not be nearly so great.

Correct. The entire Eye is surronded by fortresses, Fleet bases, whatever the Imperium can find. They take no chances. Even though the Cadian Gate is the only stable passage way, there's nothing to stop Chaos raiders from getting flung out in any other random direction/place. Not to mention, it's not just the Imperium keeping an eye on the Eye...Ulthwe's still hanging out around there too.

Not to mention, the Maelstrom (aka Eye of Terror Jr.) doesn't have nearly the same amount of fortification around it. Sure its monitored, but there's nothing comparable to Cadia.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

BrotherStynier wrote:The reason isn't solely the protection of Terra, the Cadian Gate prevents Chaos from being able to leave the Eye and knowing precisely where they are coming out. The rest is a raging warp strom more or less and will throw them out where ever.

The Eye of Terror is such a vast threat that warrants an entire sector of fortresses precisely becuase it is so close to the cradle of mankind. If the EoT was out somewhere in the fringe of Imperial space, maybe the the Ghost Stars, then the measures taken to ensure that Chaos is bottle in would not be nearly so great.

The Eye warrant all of that even if it was in the farthest reaches of the Ultima Segmentum, why? Because the Traitor Legions would still linger there because the Imperium would not follow. And due to it being the largest warp rift in the universe which would allow Chaos to spill for at will would still need Guarding. Maybe it wouldn't be as urgent, who knows though. All I know is that I don't recall anything saying the only reason its guarded is to protect Terra and the False Emperor.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Until now, Gogsnik, I had always thought that the Eldar Fall and birth of Slaanesh occured millenia before the Crusades. Your well thought out and digestible posts have convinced me otherwise.

It's all part of the service

BrotherStynier wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

BrotherStynier wrote:The reason isn't solely the protection of Terra, the Cadian Gate prevents Chaos from being able to leave the Eye and knowing precisely where they are coming out. The rest is a raging warp strom more or less and will throw them out where ever.

The Eye of Terror is such a vast threat that warrants an entire sector of fortresses precisely becuase it is so close to the cradle of mankind. If the EoT was out somewhere in the fringe of Imperial space, maybe the the Ghost Stars, then the measures taken to ensure that Chaos is bottle in would not be nearly so great.

The Eye warrant all of that even if it was in the farthest reaches of the Ultima Segmentum, why? Because the Traitor Legions would still linger there because the Imperium would not follow. And due to it being the largest warp rift in the universe which would allow Chaos to spill for at will would still need Guarding. Maybe it wouldn't be as urgent, who knows though. All I know is that I don't recall anything saying the only reason its guarded is to protect Terra and the False Emperor.

I'm not saying that there wouldn't be a threat, but one of the reasons that the Eye of Terror is so threatening is becuase it offers a stable passageway for the legions of Chaos which happens to be far too close to Terra for comfort. Sure the Eye of Terror would warrant a watchful eye wherever it was located, but if it was as far removed as the threat of the Ghost Stars it would be less of an issue. Face it, if the Dread Legions were to finally overrun Cadia and sweep away the sectors defenses, where would the next step be?