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Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Grimm wrote:I don't know, they kept Space Hulk pretty secret, did they not? Maybe all GW's experience in not telling us stuff has made them really good at keeping secrets. I do hope so.

No pretty much everyone knew, the only reason to doubt was wishful thinking and the fact GW LIED THROUGH THEIR TEETH to us about it.

Aw, that wasn't lies, that was advertising.)

Kanluwen wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Even Thunderhawks are kind of rare to be committed, since they're treated like relics.

Considering they are described as "the lynchpin of a Space Marine Chapter", I'm going to call foul on this. The Thunderhawk has always been used to deliver the Space Marines directly to the battle, as befits their intended role as shock troops.

"Kind of rare" doesn't mean "never used". Most Chapters maintain Thunderhawks, sure. But at the same time...they're not always deployed in a combat role, since they are rare machines that aren't mass produced and the Thunderhawks themselves have a personality and a history on par with some of the most ancient Dreadnoughts a Founding Legion can field.

Plus you're wrong about the shock troops bit, simply because when the Astartes are intended to be used in a "shock and awe" styled role, they deploy in Drop Pods. That is, after all, how they got the moniker "Angels of Death".

Whilst they are rarer than the average flyer, they're one of few exceedingly effective desgins that the Imperium still knows how to make. Some things are rare because knowledge of them is lost, such as jetbikes, but since the Imperium still knows how to make a Thunderhawk and how it functions, they are, to a slight degree, expendable; as such, they're deployed in combat roles and for dropping troops into the thick of the fighting. You simply wouldn't be able to do that if it were a rare machine that you couldn't afford to lose.

GW has been on a rampage releasing flyers. Every new codex has a large flyer or two and there are substantiated rumors that GW plans on releasing a lot more.

I speculate that GW is gearing up to make another Spearhead-esk rules set to accommodate aerial combat.

mikhaila wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Grimm wrote:I don't know, they kept Space Hulk pretty secret, did they not? Maybe all GW's experience in not telling us stuff has made them really good at keeping secrets. I do hope so.

No pretty much everyone knew, the only reason to doubt was wishful thinking and the fact GW LIED THROUGH THEIR TEETH to us about it.

Aw, that wasn't lies, that was advertising.)

Same thing...

Kanluwen wrote:Not really. Space Marines don't field superheavies in anything remotely near large enough numbers. Even Thunderhawks are kind of rare to be committed, since they're treated like relics.

The Blood Angels have 39. The Ultramarines have 31.

Since thunderhawks and drop pods are the astartes' only means of mounting assaults and accomplishing anything useful they are all going to have a decent quantity.

Even if a chapter uses drop-pods for assault exclusively AND they don't bother recovering the pods they still need to get marines off the ground and back to the barges.

All chapters have thunderhawks and use them in every deployment. They aren't rare and they get used all the time.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Not really. Space Marines don't field superheavies in anything remotely near large enough numbers. Even Thunderhawks are kind of rare to be committed, since they're treated like relics.

The Blood Angels have 39. The Ultramarines have 31.

Since thunderhawks and drop pods are the astartes' only means of mounting assaults and accomplishing anything useful they are all going to have a decent quantity.

That doesn't mean Thunderhawks are constantly used in every engagement the Astartes get involved in, now does it?
Also: You forgot teleport assaults. Tsk tsk.

Even if a chapter uses drop-pods for assault exclusively AND they don't bother recovering the pods they still need to get marines off the ground and back to the barges.

Which doesn't necessarily mean that they're committed. "Committed" implies that the vehicle is actually being utilized in a combat role. "Getting the Marines off the ground and back to the barges" isn't the same as "being committed", nor is a Thunderhawk doing a flyover and disgorging Jump Pack equipped Assault Marines.

All chapters have thunderhawks and use them in every deployment. They aren't rare and they get used all the time.

"Every deployment" doesn't necessarily mean "every combat deployment", bud.

Avatar 720 wrote:
Whilst they are rarer than the average flyer, they're one of few exceedingly effective desgins that the Imperium still knows how to make. Some things are rare because knowledge of them is lost, such as jetbikes, but since the Imperium still knows how to make a Thunderhawk and how it functions, they are, to a slight degree, expendable; as such, they're deployed in combat roles and for dropping troops into the thick of the fighting. You simply wouldn't be able to do that if it were a rare machine that you couldn't afford to lose.

Yes, that's obviously why the Raptors Chapter didn't commit their Thunderhawks during the Taros campaign. Because they're so expendable.

And "dropping troops into the thick of fighting" isn't how Thunderhawks are employed. That's what Drop pods are for. Drop Pods are used to strike first, effectively clearing a landing zone for Thunderhawks to follow up and ferry troops/heavy equipment into the engagement zone.

Grimm wrote:I don't know, they kept Space Hulk pretty secret, did they not? Maybe all GW's experience in not telling us stuff has made them really good at keeping secrets. I do hope so.

No they didnt. Folks knew what it was pretty much early on. GW just didnt confirm it.

If it was a Warhound, I don't know how I'd feel. I just got my FW one, but then again, it could use some friends...

Rumors of a plastic warhound for all this time are what has kept me from getting a FW one. And I'll still never get a FW one now, because with my luck the week after I get it GW will announce the plastic one. So I'll just wait and hope...

Yes, that's obviously why the Raptors Chapter didn't commit their Thunderhawks during the Taros campaign. Because they're so expendable.

...aaaaaand i've already lost complete interest in what else you've got to say. You saw 'expendable' I wrote 'to a slight degree, they're expendable'. You see those extra things before 'expendable'? They're called words. They're there to be read. You'll get the hang of it in time, i'm sure.

And "dropping troops into the thick of fighting" isn't how Thunderhawks are employed. That's what Drop pods are for. Drop Pods are used to strike first, effectively clearing a landing zone for Thunderhawks to follow up and ferry troops/heavy equipment into the engagement zone.

It IS how they can be employed. They have a great big cannon on the top for clearing landing zones with. I heavily doubt the Ad Mech just decided to duct tape it on to make it look a bit nicer. Obviously you don't throw them into the thick of it, but you don't exactly need a completely clear landing zone miles from the front lines either. That's a job for other landing craft.

Necros wrote:A thunderhawk would be great, but I dunno... if they were to plastify something big, I think they'd sell more warhounds to be honest.

Your statement does not jive with standard Dakka Dakka rhetoric.

The party line is that SM sell more then any other army, that too many people play them, they are over saturating the player base, etc., etc.

Heck people piss and moan about this on a daily basis here.

I think it is safe to say that GW would sell ass loads of Thunderhawks...

According to my FLGS owner there is a holiday sale/deal/special/packagel event, announcing in next few weeks, but GW is still deciding what is all going to be included in the deals.

CT GAMER wrote:

Necros wrote:A thunderhawk would be great, but I dunno... if they were to plastify something big, I think they'd sell more warhounds to be honest.

Your statement does not jive with standard Dakka Dakka rhetoric.

The party line is that SM sell more then any other army, that too many people play them, they are over saturating the player base, etc., etc.

Heck people piss and moan about this on a daily basis here.

I think it is safe to say that GW would sell ass loads of Thunderhawks...

I second this. I would buy AT LEAST 2 for myself, not to mention one for any Marine army I build after my Salamanders and Space Wolves and 1 for my Chaos Marines I am starting. I think a Plastic Thunderhawk would actually send GWs sales sky rocketing so far through the roof they would never be able to recreate that sort of sales performance again.

Kanluwen wrote: "Every deployment" doesn't necessarily mean "every combat deployment", bud.

Astartes have non-combat deployments?

They don't stick around until the fighting's over - they get in, hit hard and move on. Removing the troops back to the barges isn't going to be non-combat.

....or maybe NEW NECRONS!!??


Second time I threw in that in under an hour. Well, doubtful, but I think like what they did with space hulk, one day they might do with a specialist game, probably Blood Bowl.

Guys - get over it. Kan said we can't have Thunderhawks, therefore we cannot have Thunderhawks. Kan's word is law (and lore). When he says you cannot have something, then you cannot have something, just like when he told everyone in a "What Codex do you want?" thread that no one could have an AdMech army, and when he told me I wasn't allowed to have my Deathwatch army.

The guy knows his stuff, and his word is final.


And GW's "Apocalypse Week" ammounted to sweet feth all. A few articles, and lots of links to the existing kits, and a way of pimping their new monster case. If they'd actually tried they would have had new Datasheets for us - some actual support. Proper battle reports. Content. We didn't get any.

i'm still waiting for the results of the Best Super heavy competition

I have no idea if they will, but you must admit this makes much more sense than the stompa. Every Imperial army (and chaos marines, maybe demons?) could field this sucker. Wider buyers range = better sales, right? And, last time I checked, space marine players can still field them, right?

no rules regarding what armies use any super heavies.

i could run a Stompa with my Space marines. it wouldn't be fluffy and i wouldn't benift from the Stompa's special rules, but i could do it.

Hiow long's it been since we got the last superheavy? 2 years since the Stompa and Stormlord?

Kanluwen wrote:That doesn't mean Thunderhawks are constantly used in every engagement the Astartes get involved in, now does it?

Which doesn't necessarily mean that they're committed. "Committed" implies that the vehicle is actually being utilized in a combat role. "Getting the Marines off the ground and back to the barges" isn't the same as "being committed", nor is a Thunderhawk doing a flyover and disgorging Jump Pack equipped Assault Marines.

The more I think about it, the more wrong you are.

Firstly, "committed" does not imply a combat role. There is nothing implied or implicit in the word involving combat. Furthermore, your suggestion that over-flying the battlefield does not constitute a combat role is ridiculous. Braving enemy aircraft and AA fire to deploy troops doesn't count as combat??

Secondly, there is a whole list of duties for which the Thunderhawk is the only option available to the astartes.
- Space superiority: The thunderhawk is the only thing they have to keep enemy fighters and, especially, bombers away from the battlebarges.
- Air superiority: Again, the thunderhawk is the only option. The Hyperios could be used but they need thunderhawks to get to the ground.
- Troop delivery: Thunderhawks are the only option for getting vehicles, bikes, jump packers and devastators to the ground. Also, if the enemy has significant air defence assets in the target area then thunderhawks will be the only option for getting troops (other than terminators) to the ground.
- Troop recovery and re-deployment: If troops require extracting they must be collected by thunderhawk. If they require re-positioning then they will either be moved by thunderhawk or have vehicles delivered to them by thunderhawk.

The only operations not utilising the thunderhawk will be those where the enemy has no air or space fighters or bombers, no air defences in the target area, the only troops deployed are on foot and all of those troops are wiped out. Other than that, rather odd, scenario thunderhawks will be active in every deployment of marines. Also, since marines don't wait around for pacification, there is no such thing as a non-combat role for the thunderhawk.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Guys - get over it. Kan said we can't have Thunderhawks, therefore we cannot have Thunderhawks. Kan's word is law (and lore). When he says you cannot have something, then you cannot have something, just like when he told everyone in a "What Codex do you want?" thread that no one could have an AdMech army, and when he told me I wasn't allowed to have my Deathwatch army.

The guy knows his stuff, and his word is final.

Ja, Kan ist der neue fluff fuhrer von Dakka Dakka, those who do not adhere to his will shall be gassed. Heil Kan! Heil Kan!

I mean, it's better to pound your head against the wall than to argue with such a superior fluffer.

Oh but hang on, does this mean that the BL novels are all wrong then?

He started a thread in Background about the Thunderhawks.

this i gotta see

skrulnik wrote:He started a thread in Background about the Thunderhawks.

Ahem. "Deployment Methods of the Astartes", not just Thunderhawks Wanted to let this thread get back on topic.

Well, now that (hopefully) the pissing and moaning is done and (hopefully, again) the pitchfork-and-torch wielding crowd have followed Kan to his new thread, is it possible a different model or set is coming out for a Christmas release? Has anyone heard any other rumors beyond what has been mentioned (and pounded to gak so far?).

Last year I think they did some holiday army deals, so I'm betting the surprise will be something similar, probably for dark elves and of course space marines. And maybe also for skaven and high elves.

the biggest deal they have had was free shipping on all orders over $15

not bad, but their previous thing over $100 was fine(i never ordered less then $100 anyway )

i would rather have more special offers or "army of the month" deals.

Necros wrote:Last year I think they did some holiday army deals,

I believe.. ( and for the record said sometime ago, but hey ho) we should well see the exact same army "deals" that we saw last year, maybe one or two new ones for WFB ( I must admit to having idea with regards to the Rings game..sorry) and that's about it.


I guess the new WFB towers is as close as we're going to get to a "new" release between now and then.

Then Skaven, Grey Knights -- with "some" BA bits as well -- expect WD to ( magically) open up the DumpsterHawk to other chapters as well, and then the Greenskins.

Oh, I guess ( the UK anyway, sorry !) we might get a slightly earlier release of "Prospero Burns" as well. ... which I'm more than happy with.

JUST who I was wanting to wade in. Prospero Burns? What is this, red? Best news that one could pull about the chibihawk getting made STC by WD is that it might herald a return of Chapter Approved. One could wish, eh?

Thanks for the reiteration, red.