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The only Russ I see as really "useless" is the Punisher. Everything else is very viable in a non-super competitive world.

I'm actually kind of surprised that with as many complaints as people have with cover being so prevalent, that the Eradicator isn't seen more.

I think its cause it gives up too much strength and AP....if it was still strong enough to go through power armor, I have a feeling it'd be a lot more prevalent.

Ailaros wrote:Better yet, you could have the psykers in the squad be "fuel" for the abilities.

As Sanctioned Psykers, this is precisely the kind of power they shouldn't have access to. Leave that to cabals of Chaos worshippers, not the faction where hazardous psykers get fed to the Emperor and the "safe" ones have inhibitors and commissars to keep their access to the Warp in line.

I use the primaris sometimes when my friend and I play big, 4000 point battles for fun. I've found that it can either be completely useless or very helpful in a pinch. Taking out str 3 things with 2d6 ID shots is invaluable in certain situations.

Buuut I agree it could definitely be better, especially when for 30 more points I could have myself a librarian..

Melissia wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:I lol'ed.

They're fine. Do you REALLY want to pay more than five points per model?

The codex in general maybe, but specific units?

From my perspective, the following need reworking, even if only slightly:

Primaris Psyker
Psyker Battle Squad
Stormtrooper
Leman Russ Punisher

Which is pretty good as far as codices go.

Well, there's also the Vanquisher which needs a fair bit of work, namely AP1 and a Coax stubber. As is, even assuming it penetrates with every single shot, it'll take 6 turns on average to kill a vehicle between BS3 and killing only on a 5/6. A coax stubber would help it hit more often (coax rules allow rerolls to hit if stubber hits) and AP1 is fairly obvious. It's probably the least efficient tank killer in the book, and with Pask it's hideously expensive and still isn't stupendous at its job.


That said, I wouldn't want to give basic Guardsmen better guns. Where they are at is just right and they don't need to be any better or worse given their cost.

However, I'd really like Stormtroopers to drop their S3 AP3 18" RF guns for S3 AP5 18" Assault 3 guns, gain Furious Charge and WS4, and drop their cost to 65 for 5, 125 for 10, and drop the Special Operations for just DS, Scout, Infiltrate as standard. They'd much better fit the archetypal "Stormtrooper" role of being armed with short range, high RoF guns to pin an enemy and then follow through with a close assault to clear them from a position, not to mention be more useful against a larger variety of foes and actually be worth their points costs.

I'm actually kind of surprised that with as many complaints as people have with cover being so prevalent, that the Eradicator isn't seen more.

A Hellhound can do the same thing for cheaper, (not to mention the 3-12 hull mounted heavy flamers you'll often see from Chimeras and the like) and paying an extra 15pts to lose 2S and that all important AP3 just to ignore cover over a basic LRBT is a bit too much for most players.

I actually really like the Primaris i use him quite frequently i get unusually high rolls for checking how many shots he gets

I think they just need a newer codex and some forge world books dedicated to giving them a zillion more options for their tanks. If a Guardsman could just cost 2 points they might be competative.

yeenoghu wrote:I think they just need a newer codex and some forge world books dedicated to giving them a zillion more options for their tanks. If a Guardsman could just cost 2 points they might be competative.

Wait wait wait....WHAA?! Are you saying the Guard AREN'T competivie? They they don't have enough tank options as is? Or that we even need a new codex? Seriously, I only play IG and I'd be pissed if a new IG codex came out now. OUrs is, what, a year old? Gee, we obviously need a new 'dex more than the Eldar, Necrons, or Tau. [/sarcasm]

Seriously 2pts Guardsmen? The Guard would be horribly broken then. 5 pts a model is cheap enough, and while I'm all in favor of a 2pts Guardsmen with S10, AP1 lasguns, I'd also say that it'd be ridiculoussly cheap and unfair to every other army.

[/ ]

Edit: I am, of course, all in favor of a coax stubber, and AP1 on the Vanquisher. Seriously, I love the model, but the rules are just...not. There.

I'm totally with you there Chris. We could, alternately make them Fleet instead of giving them those useless "orders" ability, halve the range of their guns in favor of making them assault 12" instead of that useless rapid 24", and charge twice as much points for them. That would be an improvement too!

yeenoghu wrote:I'm totally with you there Chris. We could, alternately make them Fleet instead of giving them those useless "orders" ability, halve the range of their guns in favor of making them assault 12" instead of that useless rapid 24", and charge twice as much points for them. That would be an improvement too!

You sir speak madness!

yeenoghu wrote:I'm totally with you there Chris. We could, alternately make them Fleet instead of giving them those useless "orders" ability, halve the range of their guns in favor of making them assault 12" instead of that useless rapid 24", and charge twice as much points for them. That would be an improvement too!

..........I really have no idea what you're saying here. I never said that we should do that to the IG, I only pointed out that the IG are competiive enough as is, especially compared to some of the other armies. We have a few units that don't preform as well as they should, or are a bit too expensive, but we really don't need to fix that. Leaf blower Guard is still competitive as hell, and even fluffy guard can be competitive. I don't see any reason why Guardsmen should be 2 points, nor do I understand what you're trying to convey with this response.

yeenoghu wrote:I'm totally with you there Chris. We could, alternately make them Fleet instead of giving them those useless "orders" ability, halve the range of their guns in favor of making them assault 12" instead of that useless rapid 24", and charge twice as much points for them. That would be an improvement too!

Chris's comment=Good sarcasm
Both of your comments=Bad sarcasm or poor understanding of IG right now.

Vaktathi wrote:However, I'd really like Stormtroopers to drop their S3 AP3 18" RF guns for S3 AP5 18" Assault 3 guns, gain Furious Charge and WS4, and drop their cost to 65 for 5, 125 for 10, and drop the Special Operations for just DS, Scout, Infiltrate as standard. They'd much better fit the archetypal "Stormtrooper" role of being armed with short range, high RoF guns to pin an enemy and then follow through with a close assault to clear them from a position, not to mention be more useful against a larger variety of foes and actually be worth their points costs.

My thoughts for Storm Troopers is something like this:

Variable Hellgun:

Dispersed/Rapid: R18", S3 AP6 Assault3

Focused/Aimed: R18", S4 AP3 Heavy1


PS: I am fairly certain yeenoghu is trying to troll.

Sorry for the sarcasm. I was refering to GuardIANs as reference point for the 'weak' Imperial GuardsMEN. The point was that I really don't think the IG need any help at all when looked at comparatively to what other Codex have to work with. It was obviously bad sarcasm if I have to explain it. My bad.

yeenoghu wrote:Sorry for the sarcasm. I was refering to GuardIANs as reference point for the 'weak' Imperial GuardsMEN. The point was that I really don't think the IG need any help at all when looked at comparatively to what other Codex have to work with. It was obviously bad sarcasm if I have to explain it. My bad.

I got it and thought it was funny...

That still doesn't explain your first comment, though. I couldn't detect a single trace of sarcasm in it at all.

ChrisWWII wrote:That still doesn't explain your first comment, though. I couldn't detect a single trace of sarcasm in it at all.

I think it's a culture difference... though sarcasm never comes out well in text so go figure.

Nah, I was born and raised in California. It's not a cultural difference, it's just a bad attempt at sarcasm at best.

ChrisWWII wrote:Nah, I was born and raised in California. It's not a cultural difference, it's just a bad attempt at sarcasm at best.

Must be the text thing then sarcasm never comes out well in text.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually looking over it the comment is pretty shocking in terms of sarcasm.

ChrisWWII wrote:Nah, I was born and raised in California. It's not a cultural difference, it's just a bad attempt at sarcasm at best.

I think it's just you.. they need a "zillion options" and a "newer codex" and "more forgeworld options" and should "cost 2 points" are all obvious jokes about the current state of ig..

Cantus wrote:

ChrisWWII wrote:Nah, I was born and raised in California. It's not a cultural difference, it's just a bad attempt at sarcasm at best.

I think it's just you.. they need a "zillion options" and a "newer codex" and "more forgeworld options" and should "cost 2 points" are all obvious jokes about the current state of ig..

Nah sarcasm need to start with things like 'Obviously' or 'everyone knows' or 'everyone can see that'

Exactly, in speech, sure his comment could have sounded sarcastic, but in text? It didn't come through. Something simple like [/sarcasm] or even some italics could have made it so much more clear,

I think, really, something like "Inspire" from Dark Heresy would make the psyker more readily taken. That power allows the psyker to, well, inspire the troops. Make them stubborn or fearless or somesuch. Since the Commissar Lord already has a stubborn bubble, a fearless one would be appropriate.

But then you get back into the overlap problem. Besides, a Primaris is probably more unsettling than inspiring. I would say give him some sort of defensive buffs ala Stormcaller or more morale wonkiness ala the psyker squad. Maybe his ranged attack forces a pinning check at -2 or something. Something that reinforces that the Warp is dangerous, but can be useful if channeled through the proper conduit.

I would like to see Ogryn boneheads get some better options like a pweapon or pfist.

Stormtroopers are definitely overpriced and the current weapon profile doesn't make any sense- S3 and ap3? Doesn't really make sense and is kind of ineffective for what you would want the AP for. Why not make it more of an assault weapon (maybe S3 AP 5 Assault 18 or 24) and leave the AP to the special weapon choices? If you can take 4x plasma/melta/demo per squad, that should be fine for AP and you don't have the basic stormtrooper so expensive.

1.) Sgt's need to get lasguns too. I mean seriously, would two extra las shots really break FRFSRF?

2.) Commissars should be able to take power fists, because power blobs aren't uber enough.

3.) Instead of #2, priests should be Commissar-like attachments rather than Independent Characters.

4.) Missile launchers in infantry squads should cost 10 points, so you actually consider them side by side with the autocannon.

5.) Heavy bolters should be 5 points like the mortar, so they don't get dismissed out of hand.

6.) Conscripts need to be 1/2 the cost OR have Send In the Next Wave! built in for free.

7.) Grenadiers doctrine should be no more than 20 points. Demolitions is fine.

8.) Stormtroopers should be 13 points each.

9.) Primaris should have a psychic hood so we aren't forced to take allies to have psychic defense.

10.) Squadron rules should let you ignore shaken results (this is universal for everyone, really).


I'll stop there, but that's a decent start.

Put Armored Company in the next IG codex!

Terminus wrote:1.) Sgt's need to get lasguns too. I mean seriously, would two extra las shots really break FRFSRF?

This one actually really bugged me when the new guard codex came out too, especially as most of my sergeants were modeled with lasguns. I run power blobs now, so no harm in the end, but it still strikes me as strange that sergeants MUST take pistols and swords.

Terminus wrote:10.) Squadron rules should let you ignore shaken results (this is universal for everyone, really).

Yes, yes they really should.

As for stormies, like other expensive guard choices, they seem overcosted because people underestimate them.

I own about 150 or so Stormtrooper models, they are my favorite units background wise and visually, however their poor reputation is unfortunately entirely deserved. Even with AP3, in a shooting war with Bolter marines (equal cost) that merely puts them on equal footing (meaning they'll do equal wounds to each other), but are still requiring twice the numbers to achieve CC parity with basic marines (and about 3.5x the numbers for GH's or CSM's), and their special ops abilities really don't make up for that, and of course are easier to kill with heavy/special weapons and have inferior leadership. Basically they are, at best, on par with similarly costed infantry (shooting) in one area and inferior in others (CC, survivability, leadership, etc).

Well, let's hope the Stormtroopers in the Grey Knights codex are a little more interesting. At the very least, having Vakyries as dedicated transports is some food for thought. And I'll be overjoyed if they get their Apocalypse data sheet as a special rule.

"How could imperial guard be made better?"


MOAR! large blast templates.