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Just S10 if you really want to kill it. For example, for IG, the Manticore and the Demolisher.

Since you play Eldar, though, your best bet would be Fire Prisim linking, or stick the Avatar in its face.

Gavo wrote:Just S10 if you really want to kill it. For example, for IG, the Manticore and the Demolisher.

Since you play Eldar, though, your best bet would be Fire Prisim linking, or stick the Avatar in its face.

And the S6 Avatar would help because...?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Gavo wrote:Just S10 if you really want to kill it. For example, for IG, the Manticore and the Demolisher.

Since you play Eldar, though, your best bet would be Fire Prisim linking, or stick the Avatar in its face.

And the S6 Avatar would help because...?

It can still pen....? 6 +2d6= potential up to 18 armor pen

I know its hard but still possible.

scubasteve04 wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Gavo wrote:Just S10 if you really want to kill it. For example, for IG, the Manticore and the Demolisher.

Since you play Eldar, though, your best bet would be Fire Prisim linking, or stick the Avatar in its face.

And the S6 Avatar would help because...?

It can still pen....? 6 +2d6= potential up to 18 armor pen

I know its hard but still possible.

Except it doesn't get the 2d6 armor pen dice against the Monolith. The Monolith has the Living Metal rule, which states that units attacking the monolith get their strength + 1d6, no matter what.

Oh thats right

the weasel king wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:
No, they can not. The particle matrix can always be fired, no matter what. Therefore, you cannot glance a Monolith to death, ever. The only way to get rid of the thing is to pen it, and that's hard enough to do unless your getting lucky with rolls.

Not true, that technically doesn't count as a gun. For glances, you would need 6 weapon destroyed and an immobilized, followed by another 5+ glance. (unless you play raw, at which point each weapon destroyed reduces by -1, which math buffs will tell you means --1, or +1 weapon. Although I'm sure even a to will slap you for this).

IMO however, the easiest way is haywire grenades (eldar and maybe de, not sure bout de though). 2-5 is a glance, 6 is a pen. A squad of 10 of em would make shortish work of a monolith.

Second would be any s8+ gun on a unit with tank hunter.

Tank hunter doesn't work as it adds plus 1 to the pen roll if memory serves.

Secondly, you can't glance it to death as has been said because you can't destroy the power matrix (as stated in the codex that it can never be destroyed by a weapon destroyed result) meaning you can never get rid of all the weapons. Also, the particle whip IS a weapon as it is in the armoury as such. Third, even the -1 on the gauss flux arcs wouldn't lead to a destroyed result as it would just keep putting on more negatives (there's nothing saying that once it is at 0 shots that it is destroyed) it just simply would never be able to roll high enough to be able to shoot.

Is there no love for the wraithguard? This sounds like a perfect (aka only) use for a small unit in a skimmer. They penetrate on a 5 or 6 against any armour.

ansacs wrote:Is there no love for the wraithguard? This sounds like a perfect (aka only) use for a small unit in a skimmer. They penetrate on a 5 or 6 against any armour.

It's no different than taking str 10 weaponary as they need a 5 or 6 to pen as well. But I get what you're saying.

The issue that people have is just that though, there are NO other options for anything to let them roll lower than a 5 or 6 to pen, as opposed to taking melta weapons where you can roll much lower and get a pen because of the extra die.

as opposed to taking melta weapons where you can roll much lower and get a pen because of the extra die.

No, as I stated before, any weapon only gets is unmodified strength plus 1d6 for penetration. There are no extra dice allowed for anything except ordinance weapons.

Which is why normal means do not work. AP10 doesn't work either as it requires average 6 actual hits to get a vehicle destroyed. Which leaves grenades.

I believe the only way to kill a monolith would be grenades or witchblades/singing spears. Eldar have an rare opportunity to hurt the monolith with haywire grenades and mass witchblades/singing spears. Only problem with grenades is the units that have them (Autarch and swooping hawks). The autarch is good, but it's only 1 grenade, and the swooping hawks are really ehhh (although vs. crons you could probably pull it off).

Your other option would be the witchblades/singing spears. Really that will only work with a warlock squad, and at that point, you have to run a jetlock army. Great army, and a double jetlock would probably destroy crons, but thats your call.

Flaming_Spider wrote:

as opposed to taking melta weapons where you can roll much lower and get a pen because of the extra die.

No, as I stated before, any weapon only gets is unmodified strength plus 1d6 for penetration. There are no extra dice allowed for anything except ordinance weapons.

Dude, read my whole post instead of picking out something piecemeal. I didn't say they did get it, I said that rolling a 5 or 6 to pen a monolith is the ONLY option for penning it with any weapon as opposed to other vehicles where you can use melta weapons and essentially be allowed to get a lower roll but still pen due to the extra die.

And by the way, ordnance do not actually get an extra die either as you are still only resolving against STR+1d6, so for ordnance it is not an *extra* die so much as it is a second chance.

If you play Eldar and you know you'll be facing Monoliths have some wraithguard units (min size of 3) in your army.

The wraithcannon is the most effective weapon the Eldar have for taking down monoliths.

I used to play a Necron player who loved to Deepstike his monoliths into my lines and then dakka my squishy pointy ears to death.

After I employed a few of these units he soon stopped.

I've also taken a few out with S10 rams from gunless waveserpents/falcons/prisms.

Kevin949 wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:

as opposed to taking melta weapons where you can roll much lower and get a pen because of the extra die.

No, as I stated before, any weapon only gets is unmodified strength plus 1d6 for penetration. There are no extra dice allowed for anything except ordinance weapons.

Dude, read my whole post instead of picking out something piecemeal. I didn't say they did get it, I said that rolling a 5 or 6 to pen a monolith is the ONLY option for penning it with any weapon as opposed to other vehicles where you can use melta weapons and essentially be allowed to get a lower roll but still pen due to the extra die.

And by the way, ordnance do not actually get an extra die either as you are still only resolving against STR+1d6, so for ordnance it is not an *extra* die so much as it is a second chance.

Sorry, I was having trouble understanding your post. My apologies.

Ordinance weapons do get their extra d6. It's one of the last lines in the special rule.

Ordnance weapons still roll 2D6 for Armour Penetration and select the highest score.

Necron Codex, page 21, paragraph one, sentence 4.

Flaming_Spider wrote:Sorry, I was having trouble understanding your post. My apologies.

Ordinance weapons do get their extra d6. It's one of the last lines in the special rule.

Ordnance weapons still roll 2D6 for Armour Penetration and select the highest score.

Necron Codex, page 21, paragraph one, sentence 4.

Well, after rereading my post I can see your confusion. And yes, I know that ordnance get to roll 2d6 but it is still not an "extra" die as you're resolving the blow as 1d6 anyway, you just get to pick the highest of the two (I play necrons, I'm pretty familiar with their rules). It's just kinda like ordnance weapons get a re-roll to failed pen but you roll both at the same time. It's ultimately the exact same thing you just don't actually "re-roll" as they're both rolled at the same time and only 1 die counts even if both are 6's.

so best way to drop a lith, ST 10 ord, hooray. A couple people play crons at our lfgs, all use 1 deceiver and 1 monolith @1500 seems bad imo but w/e

In the necron codex it states 'In practice, any weapon attacking the monolith will roll for armour penetration using its UNAUGMENTED strength and a single D6 no matter what.

the unaugmented strength of a dread is 6 and the DCCW augments it to 10 therefore it can only be S6.??

Is this not correct?

Kevin949 wrote:

the weasel king wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:
No, they can not. The particle matrix can always be fired, no matter what. Therefore, you cannot glance a Monolith to death, ever. The only way to get rid of the thing is to pen it, and that's hard enough to do unless your getting lucky with rolls.

Not true, that technically doesn't count as a gun. For glances, you would need 6 weapon destroyed and an immobilized, followed by another 5+ glance. (unless you play raw, at which point each weapon destroyed reduces by -1, which math buffs will tell you means --1, or +1 weapon. Although I'm sure even a to will slap you for this).

IMO however, the easiest way is haywire grenades (eldar and maybe de, not sure bout de though). 2-5 is a glance, 6 is a pen. A squad of 10 of em would make shortish work of a monolith.

Second would be any s8+ gun on a unit with tank hunter.

Tank hunter doesn't work as it adds plus 1 to the pen roll if memory serves.

Secondly, you can't glance it to death as has been said because you can't destroy the power matrix (as stated in the codex that it can never be destroyed by a weapon destroyed result) meaning you can never get rid of all the weapons. Also, the particle whip IS a weapon as it is in the armoury as such. Third, even the -1 on the gauss flux arcs wouldn't lead to a destroyed result as it would just keep putting on more negatives (there's nothing saying that once it is at 0 shots that it is destroyed) it just simply would never be able to roll high enough to be able to shoot.

You can technically glance a monolith to death, the power matrix is not a weapon its a special rule therefore, if you knock out the other guns that is all of its "Weapons" since it isnt a weapon immobolize and then one more weapon destroyed granted thats 8 weapon destroyed glances you need to land on a monolith.
as a necron player i tend not to run liths since most people A. expect me too and B. points i can throw into either destroyers or immortals

in short best way to deal with necrons is to phase us if we have monoliths.

I think you'll actualy find that the most unsuspected army can destroy a monolith in a single turn NECRONS ! ! !

even though they would kick its ass i was just kidding. . . the actual unsuspected army is tyranids due to the fact that everyone thinks that a tyranid codex pretty much has gaunts,warriors,tyrants and carnafixes however they have THE most powerful tankbuster in 40k "consealed within the restricted section at hogwarts school for spacecrafts and techmarines"
This ultra tank buster is called a Zoenthrope and has a STR10 single ap1 shot and to top it off,has the LANCE special rule which means that any vihecle it fires at automaticly is reduced to armour 12 against this attack so you will penetrate on 2+ also this is a very resiliant model/unit with a 5+armour save and a 2+ invunerable so get down to GW and spend ur £12 on this awsome model

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:DCCW's work fine, as does the BA sword power, now my question ... does ordonance still get the 2d6? beings its not to pen. and we actually only get one?

Yes. I have a necron army, the GW FAQ's say so.

The way I remove monoliths is with either Ironclad Dreadnoughts or Captain Darnath Lysander. Yes, I do find them worth removing, even with pahse out. It keeps the necron player form having the ability to move their army around the board... especially if they are llike so many necron destroyer lists, where they keep their warriors in reserve. Can't come out if the monolith is destroyed. I like to keep a unit right next to the portal entrance of the monolith. If I remember correctly, the unit's may only 'disembark' at the beginning of the necron players turn... so they can't come out if they start with a unit within 1 inch of the monolith's entrance.

Those are just my little things for annoying and harrassing monoliths.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AzsGamer wrote:I think you'll actualy find that the most unsuspected army can destroy a monolith in a single turn NECRONS ! ! !

even though they would kick its ass i was just kidding. . . the actual unsuspected army is tyranids due to the fact that everyone thinks that a tyranid codex pretty much has gaunts,warriors,tyrants and carnafixes however they have THE most powerful tankbuster in 40k "consealed within the restricted section at hogwarts school for spacecrafts and techmarines"
This ultra tank buster is called a Zoenthrope and has a STR10 single ap1 shot and to top it off,has the LANCE special rule which means that any vihecle it fires at automaticly is reduced to armour 12 against this attack so you will penetrate on 2+ also this is a very resiliant model/unit with a 5+armour save and a 2+ invunerable so get down to GW and spend ur £12 on this awsome model

As annoying as the stupid S10 lance is... Monoliths are not affected by lances. However I do believe that it still counts as S10 against them.

Man this thread is hurting me...people are saying use this, but it's not eldar...use this, but it doesn't work against monoliths...

There are only 2 ways I have ever seen that could reliably kill a monolith, both conveniently from the eldar.

The first haywire grenades, unfortunately the only useful way to reliably use this is swooping hawks, which really aren't good.

The other way is mass high str weapons. I'm not talking s10 single shots, it requires an average 6 shots (counting all as hits) to statistically kill one, anyone got 12 prism's (gota link to get s10). What then will do the trick? A squad of 10 strong warlocks with singing spears. Even 30 s9 attacks (10 shooting and 20 on the charge) is more than enough to kill a monolith (assuming auto hits from the charge you average kill about 1.5 monoliths, counting only vehicle wrecked/destroyed results from pens).

The best way to do this is with a jetlock army. Moderately competitive, and it will eat a necron army. I would suggest double jetlock, but that can only be done at higher points (i can barely force it in 1850, and I'd rather not below 2k)

Well, yea. There's not a lot that can reliably kill a monolith. It's easily one of the best vehicles in the game, it would be the best if it could move faster. It's a huge pain to take down, and can deal a lot of damage very quickly. As has been said, the best way to destroy the thing is to ignore it and kill the squishy units, then it goes away.

If it's in the middle of your lines and wreaking havoc, you may need to take it down more quickly, although this is still going to prove to be a huge issue.
Throwing all your S9 or S10 at it will work sometimes, but you need to be lucky with the rolls, as your still only penetrating on a 5+.
Anything that gets an auto pen on a 6 will also work, but, as I said, you need to get super lucky on your rolls.
Your typical anti vehical arsenal won't work, as Lances, Blasters, Melta, etc., don't get their extra dice. You need minimum S9 to get it off the board, as it cannot be glanced to death.

The Particle Whip is a weapon, but due to its special rule, this weapon cannot be destroyed by any means, and therefore, no matter how many weapon destroyed results you get, it can still fire.
The Gauss Flux Arc cannot be destroyed either, the amount of shots it can put out is merely reduced with every hit, until that number is low enough that it is getting negative shots, but it can still "fire," thus making glancing the Monolith to death an impossible feat.

Flaming_Spider wrote:As has been said, the best way to destroy the thing is to ignore it and kill the squishy units, then it goes away.

That doesn't matter, the op wanted a way to reliably take out the monolith, it doesn't help by saying kill something else instead.

Flaming_Spider wrote:The Particle Whip is a weapon, but due to its special rule, this weapon cannot be destroyed by any means, and therefore, no matter how many weapon destroyed results you get, it can still fire.

Wrong, look at the weapon section of the monolith profile. It is not listed, it is not a weapon, it is a special rule. You can kill it rai (not raw because reducing number of shots by -1 is the same as +1 shot) but it requires 6 weapon destroyed+immobilized+either one of those for the kill. It just isn't realistic to do so.

Flaming_Spider wrote:Throwing all your S9 or S10 at it will work sometimes, but you need to be lucky with the rolls, as your still only penetrating on a 5+.
Anything that gets an auto pen on a 6 will also work, but, as I said, you need to get super lucky on your rolls.

Which means you have to spam s9/10 weapons, and again, the only way I can think of doing that well enough (in any army) is witchblades or preferably singing spears.

Generally ignoring them is the best way to win. However the Necron players know this is what you are planning to do so the good ones will play accordingly. The good Necron players are going to make sure you don't get close enough to assault and wipe his warriors off the board, he'll make sure they always have cover, always are near a res orb, and always are near the Monolith. Smart Necron players can position (hide) their armies enough to really make ignoring the Monolith hurt, especially in KP and mulitple objective missions. You should take some Str10 weapons to help deal with Monoliths if you run into a good Necron player. Another thing to consider is ignore the Warriors turn 1/2 and focus on taking out one of the Monoliths. If they are running 2 or 3 taking out 1 or 2 in the opening turns will cripple the army just as well as taking out 15-30 Necrons turns 1/2.

the weasel king wrote:Wrong, look at the weapon section of the monolith profile. It is not listed, it is not a weapon, it is a special rule. You can kill it rai (not raw because reducing number of shots by -1 is the same as +1 shot) but it requires 6 weapon destroyed+immobilized+either one of those for the kill. It just isn't realistic to do so.

Yep, and yet again I'm wrong. I really should go reread my dex... I am just not on top of my game today. Sorry for being difficult, I'll try not to do it again.

tenclaw wrote:In the necron codex it states 'In practice, any weapon attacking the monolith will roll for armour penetration using its UNAUGMENTED strength and a single D6 no matter what.

the unaugmented strength of a dread is 6 and the DCCW augments it to 10 therefore it can only be S6.??

Is this not correct?

No, the unaugmented str of the DCCW is x2 user STR, the same as a powerfist/thunderhammer. Plus, DCCW and pfist/TH aren't technically strength augmented weapons as they are all hitting at the users strength and the monolith only disallows unaugmented WEAPON strength.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the weasel king wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:The Particle Whip is a weapon, but due to its special rule, this weapon cannot be destroyed by any means, and therefore, no matter how many weapon destroyed results you get, it can still fire.

Wrong, look at the weapon section of the monolith profile. It is not listed, it is not a weapon, it is a special rule. You can kill it rai (not raw because reducing number of shots by -1 is the same as +1 shot) but it requires 6 weapon destroyed+immobilized+either one of those for the kill. It just isn't realistic to do so.
.

It's listed in the armory as a weapon, the POWER MATRIX is the special rule and it explicitly states you can't destroy it from weapon destroyed results. Also, the weapons profile in the dex says "SEE BELOW" and on page 22 under necron weapons the particle whip is listed.

Kevin949 wrote:

the weasel king wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:The Particle Whip is a weapon, but due to its special rule, this weapon cannot be destroyed by any means, and therefore, no matter how many weapon destroyed results you get, it can still fire.

Wrong, look at the weapon section of the monolith profile. It is not listed, it is not a weapon, it is a special rule. You can kill it rai (not raw because reducing number of shots by -1 is the same as +1 shot) but it requires 6 weapon destroyed+immobilized+either one of those for the kill. It just isn't realistic to do so.
.

It's listed in the armory as a weapon, the POWER MATRIX is the special rule and it explicitly states you can't destroy it from weapon destroyed results. Also, the weapons profile in the dex says "SEE BELOW" and on page 22 under necron weapons the particle whip is listed.

So you are saying the power matrix, the thing that allows you to teleport units in/around the battlefield? The reason it can not be destroyed by a weapon destroyed result is because it it not a weapon. It may allow you to use an ability in the shooting phase, alas the power matrix itself is not a weapon.

the weasel king wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

the weasel king wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:The Particle Whip is a weapon, but due to its special rule, this weapon cannot be destroyed by any means, and therefore, no matter how many weapon destroyed results you get, it can still fire.

Wrong, look at the weapon section of the monolith profile. It is not listed, it is not a weapon, it is a special rule. You can kill it rai (not raw because reducing number of shots by -1 is the same as +1 shot) but it requires 6 weapon destroyed+immobilized+either one of those for the kill. It just isn't realistic to do so.
.

It's listed in the armory as a weapon, the POWER MATRIX is the special rule and it explicitly states you can't destroy it from weapon destroyed results. Also, the weapons profile in the dex says "SEE BELOW" and on page 22 under necron weapons the particle whip is listed.

So you are saying the power matrix, the thing that allows you to teleport units in/around the battlefield? The reason it can not be destroyed by a weapon destroyed result is because it it not a weapon. It may allow you to use an ability in the shooting phase, alas the power matrix itself is not a weapon.

No, the Power Matrix is not a weapon. The Particle Whip is. And, due to the Power Matrix special rule, the Particle Whip cannot be destroyed.

Flaming_Spider wrote:No, the Power Matrix is not a weapon. The Particle Whip is. And, due to the Power Matrix special rule, the Particle Whip cannot be destroyed.

Show me where in the monolith profile, that the particle whip is listed as a weapon. Under the weapons section of the monolith it clearly states that the only weapon is the flux arc. The power matrix is not a weapon, it just allows firing something. Also, show me where on the monolith that the particle whip is located.

the weasel king wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:No, the Power Matrix is not a weapon. The Particle Whip is. And, due to the Power Matrix special rule, the Particle Whip cannot be destroyed.

Show me where in the monolith profile, that the particle whip is listed as a weapon. Under the weapons section of the monolith it clearly states that the only weapon is the flux arc. The power matrix is not a weapon, it just allows firing something. Also, show me where on the monolith that the particle whip is located.

It's not listed on the Monolith's profile, it's in the armory. Admittedly, I'm no expert on this subject. I'm going off what the head of my gaming club told me, so I could be wrong on this point.

The Particle Whip can be fired from any of the Monolith's weapons, the Particle Whip itself does not appear on the vehicle, although it is commonly mistaken to be the crystal.

Flaming_Spider wrote:

the weasel king wrote:

Flaming_Spider wrote:No, the Power Matrix is not a weapon. The Particle Whip is. And, due to the Power Matrix special rule, the Particle Whip cannot be destroyed.

Show me where in the monolith profile, that the particle whip is listed as a weapon. Under the weapons section of the monolith it clearly states that the only weapon is the flux arc. The power matrix is not a weapon, it just allows firing something. Also, show me where on the monolith that the particle whip is located.

It's not listed on the Monolith's profile, it's in the armory. Admittedly, I'm no expert on this subject. I'm going off what the head of my gaming club told me, so I could be wrong on this point.

The Particle Whip can be fired from any of the Monolith's weapons, the Particle Whip itself does not appear on the vehicle, although it is commonly mistaken to be the crystal.

You say yourself that it isn't in the monoliths profile. I am a necron player, I argued the same as you at one point, but the massive amount of people (everybody) proved me wrong. Any unit has all of its weapons listed in its profile. Just because it has the ability to use something doesn't mean that it is always there. If I where to argue that the monolith had it as a gun ever (which is untrue) the only even remote argument would be for when it is actually firing as otherwise it is just a power matrix NOT a particle whip. the power matrix does not give you a additional undestroyable weapon, it allows you to shoot something that you do not otherwise have due to a special rule.