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Ok then, what if I remove one 2 meltagun and fist assault squad, and beef up the vv vet squad so it has seven guys, sarge with storm shield and glaive, two with two lightning claws each, two with powerfists and storm shield, and two with stormshields and chainswords, as well as four with meltabombs. May have tweaked some other things to even it out to two thousand. Opinions?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This post is directed towards BrPromethius

That would be one hell of a unit. I'd give it a try.

The heavy melta is centered around landing and destroying vehicles on the same turn you deep struck. This prevents them from getting away from you in the case of fast vehicles, and keeps you from having to chase a rhino/chimera chasis while being pelted by their weapons and fire ports. At least with the hordes you know they won't be getting away from you.

The honor guard are better as fire support. Blood is right they can be geared to be pretty smashey in hth, but you shouldn't be engaging any of the units that have your sanguinary priests/novinates in. They need to stay loose and mobile to make sure they're able to bring their 6" bubble to bear on anyone that needs it. At the end of the day using sanguinor and a banner to buff an honor guard's attacks is just giving them more non-power, non-str 8+. They'll still loose in hth against a dedicated hth unit. The thing that makes honor guard unique is the ability to take multiple special weapons. If you want to start talking about giving them specialist hth weapons, then you need to be investing those points in vanguards, as they are more efficiently spent there.

Here's how I run my HG:

Novitiate
HG #1 - lightning claw & stormshield
HG #2 - lightning claw & stormshield
HG #3 - pair of lightning claws
HG #4 - thunderhammer & stormshield

They have jump packs and the chapter banner for +1A. I run them with an Epistolary (Sanguine Sword & Unleash Rage). They'll kill a lot more than a squad with four plasma/melta all the time. The list has too much melta in my opinion. People are over focusing on killing mech now way too much. It's silly.

On the charge the unit with the Epistolary is dishing out:

5 S10 WS5 attacks (ignore armor saves)
13 S5 lightning claw attacks
4 S5 thunderhammer attacks

All missed hits reroll. This is much more powerful than 4 plasma guns.

Also if the Sanguinary Priests are not attached to squads then they can be picked off by enemy shooting.

You just outfit a shooting unit for hand to hand. They are Vanguard vets in most respects save for that they can't charge the turn they arrive. You can do what you want to do, but you should probably take advantage of the first turn charge. You will have to deal with armies like Mechdar or Hells Angels Marines where all of their units move faster than your admittedly mobile guys. It's best to try to lock down / destroy everything you can on the drop.

I don't think anyone's talking about running Sang Priests by themselves. I'm saying they need to stay in mobile fire-support squads that aren't getting into hth. The novinates are perfect for this, the Sang Priests proper can be attached to the half of a combat-squad-ed assault squad that doesn't have the Sgt and powerfist in it for a similar effect.

Nephil: I wasn't planning on taking special weapons outside of assault squads, 'cause I just like more bodies.

BloodthirSTAR: Would you suggest I take away from the VV squad to pay for the HG, or take it from somewhere else?

The honor guard are less efficient hand-to-hand than the VVs. If you weren't planning on taking more special weapons, field the VVs instead of the HG. The first turn charge is vital to this list. You can't have forces like mechdar speeding away from you after you land. I would still urge you to take the HGs as fire support. They are the most point efficient unit in that codex for what you're trying to do.

Would it be better to, instead of fielding one monster unit, have multiple VV squads for more field coverage?

And HG are nice, and I may see the light at some point, but I really just feel with those melta shots coming from assault squads. I play IG, and feel safer with more bodies.

The 2.5k list I want to run has 3 squads of VV. So, yes, I'm a fan of taking as many as possible to make sure you have enough first turn charges to disrupt.

As far as the HG, think of that squad as an upgrade for the sang priests you were already talking about buying. The novinates are more point efficient than their IC bretheren.