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purplefood wrote:Also if GK were created through all the legion gene-seed then they would have the defects that both SW and BA have as well as other defects.


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Retribution wrote:The custodes are based on the Emperors seed, not the Grey Knights afaik

The custodes have a different alteration method than the SM the gene-seed of the GK s believed to have been based on the Emperor's DNA. I don't think the Emperor has gene-seed.

the geneseeds were originally made from the primarches, who are not space marines but a fully formed being, geneseed could be made based on the emperor. there isn't any reference to the custodes having geneseeds, as they are not space marines and their production from humans is different.

BluntmanDC wrote:

purplefood wrote:Also if GK were created through all the legion gene-seed then they would have the defects that both SW and BA have as well as other defects.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Retribution wrote:The custodes are based on the Emperors seed, not the Grey Knights afaik

The custodes have a different alteration method than the SM the gene-seed of the GK s believed to have been based on the Emperor's DNA. I don't think the Emperor has gene-seed.

the geneseeds were originally made from the primarches, who are not space marines but a fully formed being, geneseed could be made based on the emperor. there isn't any reference to the custodes having geneseeds, as they are not space marines and their production from humans is different.

Not sure what you're saying here Bluntman...

purplefood wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

purplefood wrote:Also if GK were created through all the legion gene-seed then they would have the defects that both SW and BA have as well as other defects.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Retribution wrote:The custodes are based on the Emperors seed, not the Grey Knights afaik

The custodes have a different alteration method than the SM the gene-seed of the GK s believed to have been based on the Emperor's DNA. I don't think the Emperor has gene-seed.

the geneseeds were originally made from the primarches, who are not space marines but a fully formed being, geneseed could be made based on the emperor. there isn't any reference to the custodes having geneseeds, as they are not space marines and their production from humans is different.

Not sure what you're saying here Bluntman...

That the Emperor does not have geneseed, but you can make geneseed from the Emperor's DNA (for the GKs), just like the original legions' geneseed was made from the primarchs' DNA.

and that there is no mention of the custodes having geneseed, as they use a different production method.

Custodes were the first space marines.

No they weren't, custodes are different from space marines. they are super soldiers but the only relation to the space marines is that the Emperor made them.

BluntmanDC wrote:

purplefood wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

purplefood wrote:Also if GK were created through all the legion gene-seed then they would have the defects that both SW and BA have as well as other defects.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Retribution wrote:The custodes are based on the Emperors seed, not the Grey Knights afaik

The custodes have a different alteration method than the SM the gene-seed of the GK s believed to have been based on the Emperor's DNA. I don't think the Emperor has gene-seed.

the geneseeds were originally made from the primarches, who are not space marines but a fully formed being, geneseed could be made based on the emperor. there isn't any reference to the custodes having geneseeds, as they are not space marines and their production from humans is different.

Not sure what you're saying here Bluntman...

That the Emperor does not have geneseed, but you can make geneseed from the Emperor's DNA (for the GKs), just like the original legions' geneseed was made from the primarchs' DNA.

and that there is no mention of the custodes having geneseed, as they use a different production method.

That's what i was saying.

the GKs were founded(and this is all but confirmed at the end of Esinstien and will be further confirmed in Oath of the Moment) by Nathanial Garro and some Deathguard marines and 1 Luna Wolf. the Emperor's DNA myth is to cover up this fact which some would find unsavory.


Custodes are a mystery. they are the most likely to have been made with the Emperor's DNA. they are Genetically Engeneered, but not in the same way Marines are. likely they simply use a slightly different process that results in a Custode. Custodes are Custodes just like Space Marines are Space Marines.

Grey Templar wrote:the GKs were founded(and this is all but confirmed at the end of Esinstien and will be further confirmed in Oath of the Moment) by Nathanial Garro and some Deathguard marines and 1 Luna Wolf. the Emperor's DNA myth is to cover up this fact which some would find unsavory.

No it is not comfirmed (and neither is their anything negating the 'emperor myth'), its just a theory. the topic has been debated alot on dakkadakka as you well know, there is a seperation between actual canon fluff and fan assumptions.

*sigh



emphasis mine

oh my god that quote soooooo proves your point, oh wait it doesn't, all it shows is the forming of the inquisition NOT the grey knights

This thread has gotten massively off-topic...

True, i think the conclusion from this thread is that the blood ravens are heavily implied to be related to the thousand sons (in some as yet unknown way) and as such Magnus would be their primarch.

BluntmanDC wrote:oh my god that quote soooooo proves your point, oh wait it doesn't, all it shows is the forming of the inquisition NOT the grey knights

Yes but who authorized the use of grey knights? The Inqusition when it was first founded!

and considering the Inquisition was originally commissioned to hunt Deamons and those who consort with them we can assume that the GKs were founded by Garro. the GKs main purpose is to hunt deamons.

there are 2 enemies that they originally hunted.

the Threat within, the Threat without, and the Threat Beyond. the Threat within is the Heritic. the Threat Beyond is the deamon. and the Threat without is the Alien.

the inquisition was originally a single entity that did all 3 of these things.

over time, 3 factions began to form in the inquisition.

the GKs and associated Inquisitors formed the Ordo Malleus to hunt the deamonic threat.

the Ordo Heriticus was formed to go after those who consorted with deamons.

the Ordo Xeno was formed to combat the threat of the Alien.



since the GKs are the only Astartes forces that are permantly attached to the Inquisition we can assume that the original members of the Inquisition that were Astartes became the GKs.

the Deathwatch are the only other Astartes Inquisitorial forces and they are only temporarily loaned to their service.

Grey Templar wrote:the GKs were founded(and this is all but confirmed at the end of Esinstien and will be further confirmed in Oath of the Moment) by Nathanial Garro and some Deathguard marines and 1 Luna Wolf. the Emperor's DNA myth is to cover up this fact which some would find unsavory.


Custodes are a mystery. they are the most likely to have been made with the Emperor's DNA. they are Genetically Engeneered, but not in the same way Marines are. likely they simply use a slightly different process that results in a Custode. Custodes are Custodes just like Space Marines are Space Marines.

Custodes aren't that powerful.
In Blood Games they say that they aren't much superior to the Space Marines,it really depends on how skilled is an individual in question.

Grey Templar wrote:and considering the 1.Inquisition was originally commissioned to hunt Deamons and those who consort with them we can 2.assume that the GKs were founded by Garro. the GKs main purpose is to hunt deamons.

there are 2 enemies that they originally hunted.

the Threat within, the Threat without, and the Threat Beyond. the Threat within is the Heritic. the Threat Beyond is the deamon. and the Threat without is the Alien.

the inquisition was originally a single entity that did all 3 of these things.

over time, 3 factions began to form in the inquisition.

the GKs and associated Inquisitors formed the Ordo Malleus to hunt the deamonic threat.

the Ordo Heriticus was formed to go after those who consorted with deamons.

the Ordo Xeno was formed to combat the threat of the Alien.



since the GKs are the only Astartes forces that are permantly attached to the Inquisition we can 3.assume that the original members of the Inquisition that were Astartes became the GKs.

the Deathwatch are the only other Astartes Inquisitorial forces and they are only temporarily loaned to their service.

Just highlighting the main bits, point 1 contradicts your own source, the inquisition was formed to root out all enemies of man. point 2 and 3 are the most important thing 'assume' in this case just means guess (and not an educated guess), you need to realise the difference between actual canon fluff and fan assumptions.

IvanTih wrote:
Custodes aren't that powerful.
In Blood Games they say that they aren't much superior to the Space Marines,it really depends on how skilled is an individual in question.

no one said they were, they just said they are different.

Where Custodes are superior to Space Marines they are inferior in the realms of brotherhood. A Space Marnie force fights as one where Custodes are a force of individuals. The process of creating a Space Marine is a refined version of creating a Custodes, basically for mass production and less complicated.

As per the other Blood Ravens thread, it's heavily implied that they are a chapter created from Thousand Sons Geneseed. A Thousand Sons, the Dawn of War games and series of books also seem to suggest this.

It is possible that they were created during the 'Cursed' 21st Founding but also not confirmed.

And yeah, I agree with Bluntman on the Grey Knights front.

Index Astartes: Grey Knights

Legend has it that the Emperor himself ordered the creation of this unique Chapter to form a force designed to fight the dread creatures of Chaos, though, of course, this is impossible to verify.

Which is the closest hint we have at the moment, what has been mentioned before seems to be the biggest nod to the creation of the Inquisition.

It will depend however on how the heresy series progresses and if whether or not Garro turns out to be a psyker, which, from the events of Flight of the Eisentsein, I think he will be as he appears to share a certain talent of another psyker in the series.

Going back to the Blood Ravens (eg, the main thread).

It was mentioned that the 'Dawn of War' games 'heavily imply' that the Blood Ravens are a 1000 Sons successor but that doesn't quite mesh with what I remember of the game.

EG, I don't remember the 1000 Sons being mentioned much at all in the games even when it was entirely feasible that they could have been a major force Chaos Rising which did have 1000 Sons style units. Instead however, Nurgle was the focus.

This is why I'm in favour of my '2 canons' theory, which is DOW say they're Word Bearers successors and GW has them as 1000 Sons.


To put it another way, if you'd never done anything related to 40k before except playing Dawn of War, 1000 Sons wouldn't even be on your radar.

Compel wrote:
To put it another way, if you'd never done anything related to 40k before except playing Dawn of War, 1000 Sons wouldn't even be on your radar.

Maybe thats the point. A 'reward' for those of us who understand more about the game than whats presented on screen. You have to wonder how many casual DOW players actually understand what a Primarch is in the first place, what Chapters are in comparrison to legions etc, and so won't care either way who the Primarch of the Blood Ravens are.

Besides, I find it incredibly hard to beleive that the Word Bearers, the ones who strted the Heresy and are the most anti-Emperor things out there would even pretend to be a loyalist legion. It just doesn't mesh with anything we know about them.

Still GW will never actually reveal who the Raven's Primarch is in absolute terms, just inference and speculative infomation, as once the mysteries gone no-one will actually care anymore and the Blood Ravens will be relegated to the fringes of the fluff forums forever. Which is sad really

Magnus and Lorgar are the two top runners in my book, with Magnus being the favorite.