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A and B I can go with. I already covered C I said for competitive purposes. If the objective is to just try something different then there's nothing wrong with that. As far as net-listing... there's no need to reinvent the wheel. the net lets you take advantage of other peoples experiences. thats a good thing.

Sure, sharing ideas online is great. But it's not a substitute for personal experience.

I still play for fun when I'm playing competitively. I don't generally field any list I don't do most of the work to create, and I have an aversion to standardized lists. I'm still playing competitively.

Assault Squads are very handy, particularly if they have double-flamers. Start them on a flank and use them to mop up infantry that your shooting softens up. Or use them to pull a Tactical/Devastator squad out of trouble. They may not be great on the charge, but it's often a great advantage to being able to hold someone in combat and prevent their charges, and with 12" jump moves, you can bounce Assault Squads around for screening short range shooting: Move in beside and then run in between. They can also get nice and close for some dual flamers.

Against vehicles they'll hit with a Melta bomb automatically, and against Immobilized or Stunned Dreadnoughts they'll hit on WS, which makes a Melta Bomb more effective than a PowerFist, particularly against AV13.

As has been said, they're mostly good as a bullying unit. They can thresh through weaker CC units decently.

Adding a Chaplain enhances them to the point where they can go toe to toe with some tougher enemies, (providing you can get the charge) though they'll still be nothing but a speed bump to deathstar killy units. But that another 125 points and an HQ slot to make an already mediocre unit approach something viable, and sticking him in Terminator armor with Assault Terminators is still a better option, most of the time. I'd only do it if you absolutely feel you need a fast counter-charge unit for your gunline, and for whatever reason, don;t feel like having more useful HQ choices in your army.

Much of the Vanilla codex sucks. You just have to try and see what works.

As a distraction unit I can say a 10 man assault squad with claws and a chaplain attached (with JP) is a nasty thing to put against orks.

Against anything else you have to take your chances.

Assault Squad with melta bombs is good for taking out vehicles, but there are better anti-tank units out there

Mannahnin wrote:The most common reasons to field an "ok" unit in a competitive list are a) because you have found a combo and built your list to provide synergy with and boost the value of said "ok" unit, b) because using unusual units and lists frequently catches opponents out, as they are less familiar with the unit's & army's capabilities than you are, and c) because varying your play experience and using lists you come up with rather than copying from the internet is more fun.

Nothing to catch an opponent out with ASMs. Nope siree there is just nothing. But hey, if you wanna preach your own message, I think we can both coexist =)

I've used them pretty successfully against guard and orks and the like in squads of ten with a chaplain. If they get the charge, there's enough attacks to cut through anything reasonable.

Yuber wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:The most common reasons to field an "ok" unit in a competitive list are a) because you have found a combo and built your list to provide synergy with and boost the value of said "ok" unit, b) because using unusual units and lists frequently catches opponents out, as they are less familiar with the unit's & army's capabilities than you are, and c) because varying your play experience and using lists you come up with rather than copying from the internet is more fun.

Nothing to catch an opponent out with ASMs. Nope siree there is just nothing. But hey, if you wanna preach your own message, I think we can both coexist =)

You haven't played against Flavius' alpha-striking Shrike list. I think I saw a BA player concede on turn 2 against it.

1.) They look cool.

2.) They can be fluffy.

3.) If you're footslogging, they'll get shot first, often drawing a disproportionate amount of shooting away from the rest of your army.

4.) Tau and Guard hate them.

shealyr wrote:1.) They look cool.

2.) They can be fluffy.

3.) If you're footslogging, they'll get shot first, often drawing a disproportionate amount of shooting away from the rest of your army.

4.) Tau and Guard hate them.

On point 1, that is why I got mine. Perhaps I just had a bad opinion of them because used them poorly - very poorly - the first time I used them. I added a jump pack chaplain to them, and had them assault a undamaged deff dread. They could not hurt him, and they could not fall back. I had to wait until it forced a leadership check which i failed to get them away from him. Was an early game, where I did stuff without thinking all the way through.

Has anyone tried to use them as mobile flamers instead of mobile chargers? Not saying you should never charge, only that you should not always charge.
I think it would be viable to only use them as close shooters. Fly up, double flamers + 7 bolt pistol + seargeant plasma pistol. Then flame again next round or fly of and flame something else, the power armour allows them to survive enemy shooters and their cc stats to avoid getting killed by mediocre enemies that charges.

Would be very fluffy for salamander list.

in a vulkan list I can see that working against hoardes....

Problem is you're sacrificing points to flame squads when you could meet a fully mech army and not be able to do anything with those assault squads

True, that is why in my head i though one assault squad with 10 men + 2 flamers + sergeant plasma pistol + melta bomb.
Then a second assault squad with 6 men, plasma pistol + sergeant plasma pistol + powerfist + melta bomb. So you have both covered.

Since even when facing mech it might be something that goes down early, or some support squad that you can attack.
And if not you could always fire the sergents plasma pistol and try to open up a light vehilce, and if that don't work 10 kraks should work.
The second assault squad is more against mech.

I really like my assault marines. I stick them behind impassible terrain or LoS blockers midfield and use them to threaten enemy advances with their 18 inch potential charge range. But I do admit, I prefer to use Terminators for surprise countercharging.

In my experience, they don't get to shoot the flamers that often. A lot of the time, you don't want to shoot at all and risk the opponent pulling models that will cause you to fail your assault. And even if you do shoot the flamer and pistols, you're still not doing anywhere as much damage as your 25-27 str4 attacks plus the powerfist will do when you assault, so it's nearly always better to assault them.

They really depend on other units from the army to destroy transports for them so they can assault the contents. You don't want your assault guys stranded out in the open near a transport that they failed to destroy, because then the guys in the transport can get out, shoot, and assault them.

I never even combat squad my big assault units (or take them in units smaller than 10). They're so fragile that they need the massive number of attacks and bulk of the unit to be able to kill things in HtH and survive.

If you're using them as a suicide unit, that's fine. But if you want a sacrificial flamer unit, you'll get better impact for fewer points by taking 5 sternguard or a command squad in a pod with combi-flamers/heavy flamers.

Flavius Infernus wrote:
I never even combat squad my big assault units (or take them in units smaller than 10). They're so fragile that they need the massive number of attacks and bulk of the unit to be able to kill things in HtH and survive.

It's quite possible to have a lovely romp around the field with a full 10 man squad with a powerfist. There are enough wounds to keep the squad alive, and enough attacks to hack their way through just about anything.

they look cool

martin74 wrote:they look cool

That too

I know this is off topic, but is a Blood Angels army with a core of jump pack assault marines considered a terrible idea?

Dead Horse wrote:I know this is off topic, but is a Blood Angels army with a core of jump pack assault marines considered a terrible idea?

No, and there are 2 reasons why this Identical unit in a different codex is better.

1) they are troops, hence are scoring.

2) they can take Melta guns allowing them to kill tanks and then assault any contents.

3) they can get FNP for pretty cheap.


the INSTANT Assault marines move to troops they become MUCH better because now not only can they contest Objectives they can hold objectives. they can also get free, or almost free, transports if they remove their Packs.


you definitly want them to have FNP when using their packs to move, but it's a small price to pay for being nearly immune to small arms fire.

Yes in a normal Space Marine army they are less than effective, but please don't ever say Vanguard Vets are better.

Vanguard Vets are even more useless because they cost more than Terminators, don't have an invulnerable save, and die to AP3 weapons.

Assault Marines have their limited uses in a Space Marine army, I can think that taking 3 5 man squads and jumping them around destroying tanks would be a pretty useful thing for them to do. Give the Sergent a Power Weapon and you now have 3 very fast, very hard to kill space marine units for only 375 points. Compare that to 5 tactical marines with a Meltagun, Power Weapon, and Rhino transport to give them the same speed and your looking at 435 points for it all. Yes the Tactical Marines are scoring units, but your probably going to be using them as suicide squads so why not use the non scoring units.

The main issue with Vanilla assault squads is the lack of a Melta gun option.

if they could take a Melta gun they would be 10 times better.

Right now they only have Melta bombs, Krak grenades and 1 PF model for tank hunting.

If they counted as troops it seems like it would fix most other problems, no melta aside.

The other issue is that Assault Marines compete with the *good* options Marines get. Notably, Attack/Scout Bikes, and Speeders.

If I were to use an Assault Squad, it would be a min-strength Flamerteam in Rhino, to escort a Master of the Forge. A repair and flamelobbing wagon in a mech-heavy army...

What about ditching the Jump packs, taking 10 men, 2 flamers Combat squad them, Melta Bomb for sgt and the free Drop pod and smashing into the REMF's? It would be a suicide run but it would distract the enemy. You never know?

mwnciboo wrote:What about ditching the Jump packs, taking 10 men, 2 flamers Combat squad them, Melta Bomb for sgt and the free Drop pod and smashing into the REMF's? It would be a suicide run but it would distract the enemy. You never know?

If my math is right, that's 215 points. It would be less expensive to drop in 5 assault terminators (200 points), for whom it likely would not be a suicide run... or 3 land speeders (150 points), or a dreadnought in a drop pod (around 150 points)...

Blood Angels have it right. For the next codex, I'd like to see these guys simply (a) made troops or (b) eliminated entirely as a free standing entry, and give regular marines the option to equip jump packs (but not heavy weapons if they do so).

Ouze wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:What about ditching the Jump packs, taking 10 men, 2 flamers Combat squad them, Melta Bomb for sgt and the free Drop pod and smashing into the REMF's? It would be a suicide run but it would distract the enemy. You never know?

If my math is right, that's 215 points. It would be less expensive to drop in 5 assault terminators (200 points), for whom it likely would not be a suicide run... or 3 land speeders (150 points), or a dreadnought in a drop pod (around 150 points)...

But the terminators have to worry about scattering and mishaps, and dreadnoughts often have to worry about being the only vehicle in range of several meltas the turn they drop in. It's not a terrible idea.

Ouze wrote:Blood Angels have it right. For the next codex, I'd like to see these guys simply (a) made troops or (b) eliminated entirely as a free standing entry, and give regular marines the option to equip jump packs (but not heavy weapons if they do so).

They definitely could use some kind of buff.

In my experience vanilla marine assault squads are kind of pointless
They have the same stats as my csm, but with jump packs
So this means they could be good to carry melta guns to kill tanks
But in the codex there are better options, so they have little use

The thing about the C:SM is that most, if not every thing needs to work together! Like having a rifleman dread pop transports and have a squads of assault marines mop up the now opened troops. Or using the assault marines as a counter charge unit for your tac or dev squads. Yes a bike squad can do the same, but unlike assault marines bikes can only hide behind cover, not in it. Also they can not jump over what ever is in their way like assault marines.

They can work, But only in conjunction with something else.

Okay so taking the synergy Idea of C:SM I would drop pod the Assault Marines into the Rear Echelon, then either using bikers or scout bikers support them, alternatively drop pod a dread with them (although i should take two seperate squads in seperate pods as I would have 3 drops pods and therefore strike with 2 at the same time).

I could use speeders, but the reserves rules are a bit too unreliable, how about a LSS with a scout squad coming in to support them, with the advantage that they are troops?
The rest of my army would be a Gunline static defence and hopefully I could pivot or roll up one side and "defeat in detail" to use military parlance.

In anything less than 1500pts it wouldn't be worth it, but to hit the enemy in the rear with a sizable force would force him onto the back foot and then he would inevitably change his tactics to counter these two (although relatively weak units) becoming a thorn in his side and this leave the rest of his army and the board yours for the taking....

On the subject of C:SM there is very little room for manoeuvre with the Assault Marines, one minor little tweak and they would become amazing for example making Meltas, Flamers and Plasma guns available instead of just flamers.. They would become Tank hunters of the highest calibre and immensely powerful, a minor tweak would be free PW's for 5 members but again the OP solution. The fact they can jump terrain and fortifications and assault things shouldn't be overlooked.