Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Most of the primarchs up-bringing is very thoroughly explained.

Rragon
no it aint, little to nothing is said about his upbringing in the forrests of caliban, his latter tutoring by luthor is explained quite well though. I would like to see Angron and Roboute fleshed out a bit more, Roboute especially as he (appart from horus) had the biggest impact in the Heresy and post Heresy.

Lexx wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

BrotherStynier wrote:If I recall correctly, the short story; After Desh'ea in the Horus Heresy novel Tales of Heresy. Makes it sound like not only does Angron have a severe anger issue do to his up bringing, the bezerker implants and the way the Emperor just teleported him out of his last stand. But he also seems to have severe survivors guilt due to all of his fellow Slave-Warriors being slaughtered by the Army the were standing up against while he got to live.

Oh yeah, that's right.

It was the eve of the great battle when he got taken away. Good call.

Sounds a lot less dull and two dimensional than the OP made out.

The Big E lied to him, gave him a choice to stay or teleport out. Angron choose to stay and fight and most like die. The Emperor let him go, then teleported him back anyway. That fueled his mistrust, big time. IMHO

Man, the Emperor was just setting this whole heresy up to blow and wasn't realizing it...

ToBeWilly wrote:

Lexx wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

BrotherStynier wrote:If I recall correctly, the short story; After Desh'ea in the Horus Heresy novel Tales of Heresy. Makes it sound like not only does Angron have a severe anger issue do to his up bringing, the bezerker implants and the way the Emperor just teleported him out of his last stand. But he also seems to have severe survivors guilt due to all of his fellow Slave-Warriors being slaughtered by the Army the were standing up against while he got to live.

Oh yeah, that's right.

It was the eve of the great battle when he got taken away. Good call.

Sounds a lot less dull and two dimensional than the OP made out.

The Big E lied to him, gave him a choice to stay or teleport out. Angron choose to stay and fight and most like die. The Emperor let him go, then teleported him back anyway. That fueled his mistrust, big time. IMHO

Couldnt the Emperor have just landed his whole army to kick the ass of the slave owners? he could have let Angron keep his promise (to stay and fight) that way.
Angron is more than just HULK SMASH, but he hasnt had much of a chance to be fleshed out in the HH series. That was a hell of a grim moment at the end of the short story when he ushered the rest of the (newly named) World Eaters down into the darkness with him.

Draglide12 wrote:Man, the Emperor was just setting this whole heresy up to blow and wasn't realizing it...

Or that's what they want you to think.

It's also worth remembering, when thinking of Angron, that he is one of the few Primarchs who was subjugated on his "home world". Most Primarchs matured on their home worlds and rapidly assumed a position of dominance and leadership. Even Mortarion, who had to fight against the mysterious rulers of his planet, was actually able to beat them. Angron was captured and enslaved. Even his slave rebellion wasn't actually successful, as the Emperor removed him before the battle.

So, you have a Primarch who was beaten and enslaved, and who also had his brain operated upon by his captors. In addition, he forms a warrior society among the slaves, and is then forced to abandon his "people" at the moment of their greatest need, by his own father.

For someone as powerful as a Primarch, this sure would make one feel powerless. And what exactly happens when the powerless are trodden down? They get angry. I thought it was very neatly done that one of the most clearly "powerful" of primarchs, and certainly the one who most epitomizes physical power (especially now), is the one who is most physically dominated (enslaved, operated upon) originally.

Also, like Curze, Angron may have been perceptive enough to see the irony of his situation. He is on the verge of escaping from slavery and striking out against those who have enslaved him, when his free will is taken away by ANOTHER entity more powerful than himself. All of his work, and all of the sacrifice that his followers made, is rendered pointless. In fact, all of his efforts have attracted the attention of the Emperor, who is, effectively, just another enslaver.

Plus, it also created an interesting situation where the World Eaters legion was formed before being reunited with their Primarch. Instead of meeting a semi-divine hero, these respected warrior-marines find an enraged, brain-damaged monster. What does that do to your morale?

That's the depth I missed in him, thank you very much.

Yeah, Angron may have been the only Primarch to hate The Emperor right from the get go.

Angron is the best.

Meaningless violence and total destruction FTW

ChaosGalvatron wrote:

ToBeWilly wrote:

Lexx wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

BrotherStynier wrote:If I recall correctly, the short story; After Desh'ea in the Horus Heresy novel Tales of Heresy. Makes it sound like not only does Angron have a severe anger issue do to his up bringing, the bezerker implants and the way the Emperor just teleported him out of his last stand. But he also seems to have severe survivors guilt due to all of his fellow Slave-Warriors being slaughtered by the Army the were standing up against while he got to live.

Oh yeah, that's right.

It was the eve of the great battle when he got taken away. Good call.

Sounds a lot less dull and two dimensional than the OP made out.

The Big E lied to him, gave him a choice to stay or teleport out. Angron choose to stay and fight and most like die. The Emperor let him go, then teleported him back anyway. That fueled his mistrust, big time. IMHO

Couldnt the Emperor have just landed his whole army to kick the ass of the slave owners? he could have let Angron keep his promise (to stay and fight) that way.
Angron is more than just HULK SMASH, but he hasnt had much of a chance to be fleshed out in the HH series. That was a hell of a grim moment at the end of the short story when he ushered the rest of the (newly named) World Eaters down into the darkness with him.

Yeah I never really understood that part of the fluff. It seems the emperor, for how great of a leader he was, should have realized that simply taking Angron away would be very damaging to him. Fighting alongside Angron seems like it would have been a better way to gain his trust.

There was a Galactic crusade going on. From The Emperor's point of view it was a choice between uniting all of humanity throughout the Galaxy or commiting troops to some slave revolt.

Well, that's a great deal more depth than I think nayone was expecting.
But yes, his fluff generally implies a mixture of survivor's guilt, induced psychopathy and hatred of what he saw as yet more betrayal to be the driving force behind his actions.

All of The Primarchs had fascinating childhoods. Problem is they just don't go into it in the HH books because they figure everyone knows that stuff already but as The Dakka has shown that is simply not true.

Of all the traitor primarchs Angron is one of the most interesting character. He has a genuine reason to hate the Emperor. The anger is just the way he deals with his emotions. He fought hard to save the people he saw as family and then a guy turns up and claims to be his father. Instead of helping his son he tries to persuade him to abandon his people at the point when they needed and give up the goal he had spent his life working towards. The Emperor claims to be good (and he only want s to save his son) but in Angron's eyes he could have sent down his SM on angrons side and he would have saved Angron and his people. When Angron chooses his people over the emperor he over rules him and lets the slaves get destroyed. From Angrons perspective a random guy who claimed to be his dad just turns up and destroys everything Angron cares about.

After that he throws Angron back into war which is what angron spent his whole life trying to escape.

Lets not forget Angron choose to keep the anger implants in his brain. He's still a bit of a tool. I think the Emperor's greatest mistake was leaving those in.

Anyways, there's a lot of "what if" talk surrounding the Heresy. What if Horus had done this, what if lorgar hadn't done that and so on.
However I think Angron and World Eaters would have had to have been put down no matter what at some point. Every year another tale of horrible atrocitied would be attributed to the WE. War with them was inevitable.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Lets not forget Angron choose to keep the anger implants in his brain. He's still a bit of a tool. I think the Emperor's greatest mistake was leaving those in.

Anyways, there's a lot of "what if" talk surrounding the Heresy. What if Horus had done this, what if lorgar hadn't done that and so on.
However I think Angron and World Eaters would have had to have been put down no matter what at some point. Every year another tale of horrible atrocitied would be attributed to the WE. War with them was inevitable.

As with a lot of the traitor legions the rot seems to have set in before the emperor had even reunited with most of them.

Mr Nobody wrote:After reading the horus heresy novels and reading some discussions on the primarchs, I've learnt that Angron is quite dull... and angry. So I was wondering if there is any way of making Angron a little deeper, or at least giving him a better reason to be berserk. I would like to hear your thoughts.

Imagine Angron was this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOWZpu8vS0c&feature=related

Now, if only Angron had a kid and a cross that could hold him.

Mr Nobody wrote:Now, if only Angron had a kid and a cross that could hold him.

LOLZ

mortisrex wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:

ToBeWilly wrote:

Lexx wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

BrotherStynier wrote:If I recall correctly, the short story; After Desh'ea in the Horus Heresy novel Tales of Heresy. Makes it sound like not only does Angron have a severe anger issue do to his up bringing, the bezerker implants and the way the Emperor just teleported him out of his last stand. But he also seems to have severe survivors guilt due to all of his fellow Slave-Warriors being slaughtered by the Army the were standing up against while he got to live.

Oh yeah, that's right.

It was the eve of the great battle when he got taken away. Good call.

Sounds a lot less dull and two dimensional than the OP made out.

The Big E lied to him, gave him a choice to stay or teleport out. Angron choose to stay and fight and most like die. The Emperor let him go, then teleported him back anyway. That fueled his mistrust, big time. IMHO

Couldnt the Emperor have just landed his whole army to kick the ass of the slave owners? he could have let Angron keep his promise (to stay and fight) that way.
Angron is more than just HULK SMASH, but he hasnt had much of a chance to be fleshed out in the HH series. That was a hell of a grim moment at the end of the short story when he ushered the rest of the (newly named) World Eaters down into the darkness with him.

Yeah I never really understood that part of the fluff. It seems the emperor, for how great of a leader he was, should have realized that simply taking Angron away would be very damaging to him. Fighting alongside Angron seems like it would have been a better way to gain his trust.

He had already lost 2 Primarchs, I don't think he would want to lose another one no matter how nuts and Angry he was.

I don't think the Emperor was very happy that Angron killed some of his Custodes either and that Angron had basically said get lost.

So teleporting him away was a better choice? not only that but then leaving immediately.
the emperor didnt hang around to explain things. he just put angron in the ship with his legion and left.
What a guy.
Heck. Leman Russ punched the emperor then they sat down and laughed about it.

ChaosGalvatron wrote:So teleporting him away was a better choice? not only that but then leaving immediately.
the emperor didnt hang around to explain things. he just put angron in the ship with his legion and left.
What a guy.

I just think that the Emperor was reeeally annoyed at how Angron had behaved, the saviour of mankind being told to get bent. He could have handled the whole situation much better than he did.

It would have been better, in my opinion, if he had helped Angron defeat the High Riders and showed him how much of a warrior he actually was. I guess from Angrons point of view all he did was prove that he was a bit of a coward and let others do the dirty work

ChaosGalvatron wrote:Heck. Leman Russ punched the emperor then they sat down and laughed about it.

Yeah, but this was all in good sport and there was much mead and merryment had by one and all

Wasn't it the other way around though, didn't the Emperor pimp slap Russ?

Pilau Rice wrote:
I just think that the Emperor was reeeally annoyed at how Angron had behaved, the saviour of mankind being told to get bent. He could have handled the whole situation much better than he did.

It would have been better, in my opinion, if he had helped Angron defeat the High Riders and showed him how much of a warrior he actually was. I guess from Angrons point of view all he did was prove that he was a bit of a coward and let others do the dirty work

Pretty sure i said this already. that the emperor should have stayed and helped angron.
Maybe he was disappointed since it seems that angron was the only primarch who wasnt a leader?

ChaosGalvatron wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
I just think that the Emperor was reeeally annoyed at how Angron had behaved, the saviour of mankind being told to get bent. He could have handled the whole situation much better than he did.

It would have been better, in my opinion, if he had helped Angron defeat the High Riders and showed him how much of a warrior he actually was. I guess from Angrons point of view all he did was prove that he was a bit of a coward and let others do the dirty work

Pretty sure i said this already. that the emperor should have stayed and helped angron.
Maybe he was disappointed since it seems that angron was the only primarch who wasnt a leader?

You did indeed, but it's also what I think. The Emperor helped other Primarchs in this way why not Angron?

I dunno, he seemed to do a good enough job at leading the pit slaves in a rebellion against their masters. I just think that he really ballsed up with Angron. Everything Angron did when he took over the War Hounds seems to be two fingers up to the Emperor, the implants, the savagery. The Emperor had to censure him a number of times, when Horus got made Warmaster Angron objected just to make life more difficult.

Pilau Rice wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
I just think that the Emperor was reeeally annoyed at how Angron had behaved, the saviour of mankind being told to get bent. He could have handled the whole situation much better than he did.

It would have been better, in my opinion, if he had helped Angron defeat the High Riders and showed him how much of a warrior he actually was. I guess from Angrons point of view all he did was prove that he was a bit of a coward and let others do the dirty work

Pretty sure i said this already. that the emperor should have stayed and helped angron.
Maybe he was disappointed since it seems that angron was the only primarch who wasnt a leader?

You did indeed, but it's also what I think. The Emperor helped other Primarchs in this way why not Angron?

I dunno, he seemed to do a good enough job at leading the pit slaves in a rebellion against their masters. I just think that he really ballsed up with Angron. Everything Angron did when he took over the War Hounds seems to be two fingers up to the Emperor, the implants, the savagery. The Emperor had to censure him a number of times, when Horus got made Warmaster Angron objected just to make life more difficult.

You would think the emperor could just drop with his fleet kill everything and say "hey son. those implants arent good for you. lets get them out of your head even though i dont understand how that is even possible considering you are a primarch and so far beyond this that it hardly makes sense".
Pretty much the worst choice the Emperor could have made was to teleport Angron away. The Emperor could have teleported the war hounds down to the world to fight with their progenitor. "these are your children. they will fight for you. and you will fight for me. and we will avenge your brothers."

@ Da Butcha

Good answer

I'm sure angron will be fleshed out more later, I mean lets face it the HH series isn't going to finish anytime soon.

I have to agree with Formosa background wise i'd like to see more about Roboute. They'll probably, well i hope they will, bring out another big ass book at some point as a companion to the series going in to the details that were missed from the series such as a lot of the pre heresey background I know I crave.

As for the emperor saving Angron friends and generally being a jerk, in my opinion it all adds to the original idea of the imperial truth. He's not a god he's a man, a hugely powerful man but a man none the less and men make mistakes. The emperor isn't going to be winning any parent of the year contest but his flaws play into the grimdarkness of the 41st Millenium, there is no clear line good or evil. Even the greatest human to ever live can still be a

ChaosGalvatron wrote:
You would think the emperor could just drop with his fleet kill everything and say "hey son. those implants arent good for you. lets get them out of your head even though i dont understand how that is even possible considering you are a primarch and so far beyond this that it hardly makes sense".
Pretty much the worst choice the Emperor could have made was to teleport Angron away. The Emperor could have teleported the war hounds down to the world to fight with their progenitor. "these are your children. they will fight for you. and you will fight for me. and we will avenge your brothers."

You would have thought so wouldn't you

As for the teleporting him away we don't know what the situation was in the greater crusade. From our point of view The Crusade went all peachey but in those times it was furious carnage the conclusion of which balanced on a knife edge at times.

Sample scenario would be The Imperium is losing hundrends of worlds to Orks at the time Angron is leading his slave revolt and The World Eaters are the only Legion in position to turn the tide of battle. From The Emperor's POV this is relativey unimportant compared to the fate of the Entire crusade.

Then the Emperor hasn't got any idea how to deal with people. Sure fighting the orks is more important than freeing one planet but keeping one of your sons (who also happens to be a super human killing machine) is more important than both. When you want someones help you don't abduct them when they say they are too busy at the moment, even if you are the Emperor.