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Anybody know what number Angron was recruited by The Emperor? ie Horus was first, Alpharius was last.

SpankHammer III wrote:
As for the emperor saving Angron friends and generally being a jerk, in my opinion it all adds to the original idea of the imperial truth. He's not a god he's a man, a hugely powerful man but a man none the less and men make mistakes. The emperor isn't going to be winning any parent of the year contest but his flaws play into the grimdarkness of the 41st Millenium, there is no clear line good or evil. Even the greatest human to ever live can still be a

I think you have it here. That's something I don't always remember. The Emperor isn't infallible, and he never claimed to be.

I may be making this up entirely, so noone go believing what I'm about to type without someone else verifying it!

I thought it mentioned that The Emperor found something very well, 'wrong' with Angrons army on the planet so it wasn't just him being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk but something along the lines of. "No, Angron these people were not your brothers, they're 'wrong' (eg perhaps already entirely in the throes of Khorne) and these are your true brothers and followers."

4M2A wrote:Then the Emperor hasn't got any idea how to deal with people.

I'm getting that quite strongly from the HH books. His treatment of Magnus and, especially, Lorgar hasn't exactly been textbook man-management.

I guess the emperor was a good leader, but a horrible father figure.

ToBeWilly wrote:

SpankHammer III wrote:
As for the emperor saving Angron friends and generally being a jerk, in my opinion it all adds to the original idea of the imperial truth. He's not a god he's a man, a hugely powerful man but a man none the less and men make mistakes. The emperor isn't going to be winning any parent of the year contest but his flaws play into the grimdarkness of the 41st Millenium, there is no clear line good or evil. Even the greatest human to ever live can still be a

I think you have it here. That's something I don't always remember. The Emperor isn't infallible, and he never claimed to be.

Sure he is just a man, but he consistently made mistakes during the HH that pushed certain of his sons towards Chaos.
He reminds me of what i have been told about Philippe Petit, the french guy who walked a tightrope across the Twin Towers. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/948453/man_on_wire_review_pg2.html?cat=40

It seems the only people in his life were those willing to be focused on Philippe Petit's dream; willing to take the risk of crime with him or to follow his wishes explicitly. His girlfriend at the time, Annie Allix, said she felt her dreams were unimportant to him, that only his mattered.

This guy was so focused that he often ignored the people around him and even moved house without telling his girlfriend.

This seems a bit like the emperor. A guy who is so focused that he ignores people, doesnt interact properly with people and cant understand emotions anymore since he's locked his own away.

In reference to all of the people deriding the Emperor for being a jerk, or a poor manager, or a poor judge of people:

I think that a lot of decisions, when you look at them from the perspective of the Emperor, make a bit more sense.

Here's a guy who has lived thousands of years, if not longer. He's concerned not with protecting a particular group of people, or world of people, or even solar system of people, but with ensuring the survival of humanity itself. Saving a few million, or billion, people on ONE planet may simply just not register on the same scale to him. In addition, I think that he expects his 'sons' to learn to share that same perspective. They simply can't get caught up in the fate of one group of people, or take their assignments personally, or harbor personal grudges, when the fate of humanity itself is at stake.

On the other hand, he is pretty clearly wrong on this point. They DO harbor personal grudges, personal ambitions, and local sympathies. It might have been better, all things considered, for the Primarchs to have never been found in the first place.

Still, though, I think that it's wrong (or at least misplaced) to judge him as a douche or a jerk. When your decisions affect countless billions of souls, and affect the course of history itself, a lot of impersonal, calculating decisions are going to be made. Slaying a billion people would be an unspeakable act on Earth, but if you did it in the Imperium to save hundreds of billions more, it would probably make a lot more sense.

Da Butcha wrote:

Doing some poking around on the Emperor you start to get the idea that he is only a man, one apart from all others admittedly, but still a man.

He has to keep a whole Imperium happy, especially his sons, without them his hope of uniting the galaxy and reuniting mankind would crumble.

People are in uproar when the World Eaters wipe out a whole population in the Ghenna Scouring. He has to censure Angron as some of his brothers have warned of his blood thirsty ways.

Magnus is censured at Nikea after Mortarion, Leman Russ and others have cried out about the use of sorcery, making the Emperor step in.

Lorgar is reprimanded for not doing enough with the greatest legion and worshipping the Emperor as a god. Why was Guilliman the only Primarch present?

He is trying to be a father, a heavy handed one and very wrong at times. But he thinks it's the best way. Afterall the Primarchs are supposed to be the best of men, but like himself, they share his flaws.

Sure he is just a man, but he consistently made mistakes during the HH that pushed certain of his sons towards Chaos.

I think his sons have to take some responsibility here. I mean none of them really deal with their reprimands well. Lorgar basically has a hissy fit and Magnus pretty much flat out ignores nikea they act more like children than leaders of a legion.

Angron has the best excuse because at least he's mentally defective thanks to his implants. Also what about the others, corect me if I'm wrong here, fulgrims defection has nothing to do with the emperor, horus is lauded by the emperor and made warmaster, nightstalker can't deal with the lack of zero tolerance. They turn because of their flaws not because of the emperor or his vision.

Again it just shows that the primarchs and emperor are flawed individuals. You can moan as much as you like about the emperor "he should have told them about chaos" " should have doen this" "he shouldn't have done that" but when push comes to shove in my book they sould have done what they were ing well told and believed in their fathers vision. Their menat to be the ultimate soldiers and the first duty of a soldier is follow orders.

SpankHammer III wrote: shove in my book they sould have done what they were ing well told and believed in their fathers vision.

This is one of the reasons that I am having a hard time with sympathising with the traitor Primarchs in the Horus Heresy series. In the old fluff on this, it was set up that they believed that Horus would be a better leader for humanity and that mankind would be better off with an active leader like Horus.

The focus in the novel seems to be more about personal gain and war and they've forgotten this main fact. It was Horus wanting to lead mankind to a better way of life and he got drowned out by Chaos on the way.

I do love the series though and there are some gems. I guess it's like the Marvel Universe where there are different timelines and versions, I guess the warp did it

Yeah its unfortunate that the history isn't consistent, then again what history is , I bought the big Horus Heresey book when the first couple of books in the HH series came out and was suprised when they didn't tie in that well. That why i'm hoping they'll new one to accompany the series.

SpankHammer III wrote:Yeah its unfortunate that the history isn't consistent, then again what history is , I bought the big Horus Heresey book when the first couple of books in the HH series came out and was suprised when they didn't tie in that well. That why i'm hoping they'll new one to accompany the series.

Do you mean Collected Visions? I have that and I think it's excellent, it's in a way why I am a little surprised at some of Horus Heresy novels going down different paths. Visions sticks with the notion that Horus was doing what he was for the benefit of mankind and clearly loses this intention towards the end.

Yup that the one, haven't taken it off the shelf in awhile, however I remember being surprised about how much the HH books seemed to deviate from it. I suppose it was bound to happen though given the number of authors involved in the HH series.

SpankHammer III wrote:

Sure he is just a man, but he consistently made mistakes during the HH that pushed certain of his sons towards Chaos.

I think his sons have to take some responsibility here. I mean none of them really deal with their reprimands well. Lorgar basically has a hissy fit and Magnus pretty much flat out ignores nikea they act more like children than leaders of a legion.

Angron has the best excuse because at least he's mentally defective thanks to his implants. Also what about the others, corect me if I'm wrong here, fulgrims defection has nothing to do with the emperor, horus is lauded by the emperor and made warmaster, nightstalker can't deal with the lack of zero tolerance. They turn because of their flaws not because of the emperor or his vision.

Again it just shows that the primarchs and emperor are flawed individuals. You can moan as much as you like about the emperor "he should have told them about chaos" " should have doen this" "he shouldn't have done that" but when push comes to shove in my book they sould have done what they were ing well told and believed in their fathers vision. Their menat to be the ultimate soldiers and the first duty of a soldier is follow orders.

exactly. The Emperor could have done some things differently but in the end his sons had to become total douchebags on their own.

The basic problems (as you can see in my sig) is names. Some of the Primarch names are brilliant, some are obscure puns and some...

I mean Angron? Would we take Magnus the Red seriously if his name was Trixy or Sir Spellsalot? The only one who came out worse was Alpharus where it's pretty obvious they had no idea what to do with him.

Could he be made interesting? Sure. Marvel Comics have kept the Hulk going to 50 years, I'd imagine someone somewhere is finding him interesting. But then again Hulk has the Bruce Banner/Jeckle & Hyde thing going on. And even Hulk is a better name than Angron.

Face facts his name is Angron the Angry, he's a 15' tall raging volcano of volcanic rage and that's all there is.

I didn't notice that about the bunny rabbits.....However I'd like to see preview of codex: Alpharius. Pretty sure Alpharius is not as bad Angron.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I didn't notice that about the bunny rabbits.....However I'd like to see preview of codex: Alpharius. Pretty sure Alpharius is not as bad Angron.

As a name it is. Alphie the Alpha Legionnaire? It sounds like a D&D characters someone would make when they're 10 years old.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I didn't notice that about the bunny rabbits.....However I'd like to see preview of codex: Alpharius. Pretty sure Alpharius is not as bad Angron.

As a name it is. Alphie the Alpha Legionnaire? It sounds like a D&D characters someone would make when they're 10 years old.

This is really OT, but I must say, your signatures are awesome. Do you make them?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I didn't notice that about the bunny rabbits.....However I'd like to see preview of codex: Alpharius. Pretty sure Alpharius is not as bad Angron.

As a name it is. Alphie the Alpha Legionnaire? It sounds like a D&D characters someone would make when they're 10 years old.

I think its supposed to be that The Alpha Legion is named after Alpharius not the other way around.

So would Omegon have an Omega unit, he lead a specialist team, right?

Mr Nobody wrote:So would Omegon have an Omega unit, he lead a specialist team, right?

Yes.
no.
MAYBE.

Why did the Emperor take on an obvious psychopath with known anger issues who used to kill humans for sport? Does this strike anyone else as an 'oops' moment?

The worse thing you can do with someone with issues of violence is throw him into more violence.

"Hey Angron, you know on Fehdren-Mhor you did some pretty awful stuff right? Howsabout you do the same thing, but for me?"

Klawz wrote:

Mr Nobody wrote:So would Omegon have an Omega unit, he lead a specialist team, right?

Yes.
no.
MAYBE.

what he said.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Anybody know what number Angron was recruited by The Emperor? ie Horus was first, Alpharius was last.

I dont remember, but I think in "Tales of Heresy", in the story of how the Warhounds found their primarch. Kharne was thinkning about how much the other legions had changed when they found their primarchs, they fought with purpose and stuff. I think he lists a few of the other legions that found their primarchs before them. I think they had found Dorn because they talked about subjugating the planet full of worms, and how somebody used machinery to build defences on a tiny strip of land. Only one I know who builds great defences is Dorn...

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Anybody know what number Angron was recruited by The Emperor? ie Horus was first, Alpharius was last.

I dont remember, but I think in "Tales of Heresy", in the story of how the Warhounds found their primarch. Kharne was thinkning about how much the other legions had changed when they found their primarchs, they fought with purpose and stuff. I think he lists a few of the other legions that found their primarchs before them. I think they had found Dorn because they talked about subjugating the planet full of worms, and how somebody used machinery to build defences on a tiny strip of land. Only one I know who builds great defences is Dorn...

you saying perturabo and the IW dont build great defenses? or did you just forget about em?

ChaosGalvatron wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Anybody know what number Angron was recruited by The Emperor? ie Horus was first, Alpharius was last.

I dont remember, but I think in "Tales of Heresy", in the story of how the Warhounds found their primarch. Kharne was thinkning about how much the other legions had changed when they found their primarchs, they fought with purpose and stuff. I think he lists a few of the other legions that found their primarchs before them. I think they had found Dorn because they talked about subjugating the planet full of worms, and how somebody used machinery to build defences on a tiny strip of land. Only one I know who builds great defences is Dorn...

you saying perturabo and the IW dont build great defenses? or did you just forget about em?

JEJE maybe IW are really good building defences, but face it, their best issue is the defences destruction .......Terra ejem ejem....

ChaosGalvatron wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Anybody know what number Angron was recruited by The Emperor? ie Horus was first, Alpharius was last.

I dont remember, but I think in "Tales of Heresy", in the story of how the Warhounds found their primarch. Kharne was thinkning about how much the other legions had changed when they found their primarchs, they fought with purpose and stuff. I think he lists a few of the other legions that found their primarchs before them. I think they had found Dorn because they talked about subjugating the planet full of worms, and how somebody used machinery to build defences on a tiny strip of land. Only one I know who builds great defences is Dorn...

you saying perturabo and the IW dont build great defenses? or did you just forget about em?

They don't build great defenses they smash them.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

ChaosGalvatron wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Anybody know what number Angron was recruited by The Emperor? ie Horus was first, Alpharius was last.

I dont remember, but I think in "Tales of Heresy", in the story of how the Warhounds found their primarch. Kharne was thinkning about how much the other legions had changed when they found their primarchs, they fought with purpose and stuff. I think he lists a few of the other legions that found their primarchs before them. I think they had found Dorn because they talked about subjugating the planet full of worms, and how somebody used machinery to build defences on a tiny strip of land. Only one I know who builds great defences is Dorn...

you saying perturabo and the IW dont build great defenses? or did you just forget about em?

They don't build great defenses they smash them.

Which is a bit ironic if you think about it. The IW rule a series of Fortress worlds.