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Whilst the costs will invariably go up, as the OP says this is down to an increase in VAT. They might go further to make pricing easier to understand £4.90 instead of £4.83 (only an example).
The thing is even when GW put their prices up last year they had no chioce, the prices of commodities were going up all the time.

We live in an age where oil prices influence almost every other cost on the planet so either way we are stuffed until we live in the eutopian paradise akin to Star Trek where money is irrelevant and we can all have whatever we want.

It's strange how most market economists said lowering the VAT was bad because they have to raise VAT once the market steadied. Hey Presto! 18 months later and VAT has to go up.

I think it's best we comment only on when GW is forced to change prices because of VAT changes.

Material costs go down as well as up you know, but GW prices don't.

What is VAT?


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Oh, and it is still them raising their own prices. Wether or not it is there fault or not is semantics.

GalacticDefender wrote:What is VAT?


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Oh, and it is still them raising their own prices. Wether or not it is there fault or not is semantics.

Basically taxes.

from wiki

A value added tax (VAT) is a form of consumption tax. It is a tax on the "value added" to a product or material, from an accounting view, at each stage of its manufacture or distribution. The "value added" to a product by a business is the sale price charged to its customer, minus the cost of materials and other taxable inputs. A VAT is like a sales tax in that ultimately only the end consumer is taxed. It differs from the sales tax in that, with the latter, the tax is collected and remitted to the government only once, at the point of purchase by the end consumer. With the VAT, collections, remittances to the government, and credits for taxes already paid occur each time a business in the supply chain purchases products from another business. The reason businesses end up paying no tax is that at the time they sell the product, they receive a credit for all the tax they have paid to suppliers.

I would be surprised if it impacts on the rest of the world - most VAT/GST systems make exports 'zero rated' - meaning that if the product is exported, no tax is applied to the sale.

Further, as a zero rated product, manufacturers and all the other businesses in the supply chain can claim back any tax on inputs, meaning that ultimately no VAT/GST is borne on the exported product.

Grimstonefire wrote:I think it's best we comment only on when GW is forced to change prices because of VAT changes.

Material costs go down as well as up you know, but GW prices don't.

The thing is, I only started this thread as a heads up that this is definately going to happen as it is a certainty that the VAT is going up to 20% and as I work for GW I already know for certain that this will change prices. Also as another person stated who also works for GW, he has already put up notifications of said price changes so we are able to comment as I can assure you that this us not a rumour but a fact.

As for the second comment, another poster also stated that when the VAT went down to 15% during the 'recession', GW changed it's prices accordingly and actually reduced them for all products to take this into account. So whilst they might not just reduce prices, at a time when they were not asked to pay as much tax as a business, instead if charging the same amount and making themselves more money they DID reduce prices and passed that saving onto us. Which I'm pretty sure can only be construed as a good thing on their part.

VAT stands for Value Added Tax and us precisely that, a type of Tax. It is set by the Government and is a percentage of money taken from the sale if an eligible product which is then passed onto the Government through the payment of the consumer. The current VAT rate is 17.5% (which has been the standard for many years) which means that if product X is priced at £100, then the sellers profit margin is based on it selling for £82.50 as the Government would take the other £17.50 in taxation. During the 'recession' the British Government reduced VAT down to 15% (something I don't ever recall happenning in my lifetime) which meant that GW were able to pass that discount on to customers. However, as another poster pointed out, when this happened it was stated that at dome point in the near future the Government would have to increase VAT in order to cover the 'deficit'. This is what is happening in January when it goes up to 20% meaning GW's prices will have to rise to reflect that or they stand to have to cover the money from their own profits putting themselves at a potential disadvantage in relation to other businesses. Not only this but 2.5% is a hefty amount of money when you get into the amounts which some companies make. If a company made 10 million in 1 year but decided they wouldn't put the VAT increase in their prices, they would have to pay the Government an extra £250,000 out of their profits. if you owned a business, would you be willing to do that for the sake of saving your customers 50p on a box of £20 Tactical Marines? I wouldn't think you'd be in business very long.

battle Brother Lucifer wrote:/rage

jk. I live in the US, and no longer buy from the GW directly (save for paint)
So it shouldn't affect me that badly.

Even if you do buy from GW direct, most if not all of it will come from a warehouse in the US, so will likely not be effected by European pricing.

Fifty wrote:Hey, maybe GW will soak up the VAT increase themselves rather than pass it on to the customers...

Your kidding right? They started making the FW stuff in China, any price lowering there? nope. However lots of recasts already.... They have no problem passing cost to thier customers.

Regards,
Carl

Grimstonefire wrote:Material costs go down as well as up you know, but GW prices don't.

This is true. Material prices go up and down, but GW prices only move in one direction.

theHandofGork wrote:

Grimstonefire wrote:Material costs go down as well as up you know, but GW prices don't.

This is true. Material prices go up and down, but GW prices only move in one direction.

Again, this is just not true. When the VAT went down to 15% GW REDUCED it's prices, and this was only last year! If that's only 'going one way' then I'd hate to be driven by you! Saying GW have NEVER dropped it's prices is wrong, as was proved last year with the across the board price reductions due to a reduction in VAT.

Its really not too difficult to understand is it?

I wouldn't be concerned here in the U.S as our GW products are namely made out of Memphis.

That is simply not true. There is some manufacturing at Memphis, but a huge percentage of the GW stuff sold here, while distributed from Memphis, is still made in the UK. Except of course for the stuff that's made at GW Shanghai in China.

The Decapitator wrote:

theHandofGork wrote:

Grimstonefire wrote:Material costs go down as well as up you know, but GW prices don't.

This is true. Material prices go up and down, but GW prices only move in one direction.

Again, this is just not true. When the VAT went down to 15% GW REDUCED it's prices, and this was only last year! If that's only 'going one way' then I'd hate to be driven by you! Saying GW have NEVER dropped it's prices is wrong, as was proved last year with the across the board price reductions due to a reduction in VAT.

Its really not too difficult to understand is it?

I didn't see any price reductions in the US, or did I somehow miss it?

I don’t buy from GW anymore as resellers are cheaper but 2.5% isn't a big increase.

If something costs £50 it will be an extra £1.25 on top.

That's not going to influence you buying a battle force or whatever is it?

I do think that GW increasing it prices anymore will be pointless though.

It's the law of diminishing returns. You can keep increasing the price but people will just buy less.

It's happening with fuel in Britain right now. The goverment puts extra tax on fuel frequently but the amount of money generated from it has leveled out. (Pushes up inflation though as deliverys of all goods need fuel to get them to the shops... stupid goverment.)

Anyway I think if GW were to lower the prices theres more chance people will spend more if they can get a full army bought.

theHandofGork - gi ven it was a reduction in UK Sales Tax (VAT) that caused UK prices to drop, its unlikely your prices would drop,

In the UK the price (for consumers) HAS to include VAT, i.e. what you actually pay at the till, unless the norm in the US where a seemingly endless list of extras is added (joke - so if the VAT rate drops then this *should* mean the price you see on the shelves drops as well, assuming the business passes this on.

For the people asking GW to "eat" the 2.5% increase; given this would destroy the effective shop profit margin this is unlikely.

GalacticDefender wrote:Oh, and it is still them raising their own prices. Wether or not it is there fault or not is semantics.

Sorry, what? Really?

How do? how's the dark eldar coming?

Really? I understand GW is a business and that VAT is out of GW's control and that they did lower prices (in the uk) for the period that VAT was reduced but it wasn't that long ago that a Basilisk went from £25 to £30 and my shock troopers when from £12 to £15. What was that hike for?

Don't get me wrog probably still buy the models, just a little concerned that my already exspensive hobby might be getting pricier. Especially with my beastmen in the army in the wings.

GW should really consider eating this increase, for their own sakes. I'm already watching their client base (on a local level, but still) reach stagnation and regression due to their current price points. Raising their prices further is only going to make the hurdle required to get into this hobby even higher for potential players.

Oh well at least i've got most of the stuff for my 750 pts custodes army becasue a poster is now up on the door of my local GW store confirning the rise in price.

This is only another excuse for GW to raise the prices to the point of out pricing thier product.

Sucks, but if they raise any more, I'm going to cut them and stick to my superfigs, pulp city, and other skermish stuff.

If I was a new player, it would be a great time to raid E bay for all of that unwanted christmas love, and return to Gorkamorka and Necromunda!!!

This is only another excuse for GW to raise the prices to the point of out pricing thier product

I don't think thats entirely true. IPT is also going up in addition to VAT.

It just unfortunate that the current British Government are 's who've never heard that you spend your way out of recession. They'd rather tax the hell out of everything and cut essential services.

Grot 6 wrote: This is only another excuse for GW to raise the prices to the point of out pricing thier product.

How do you mean "out pricing their product"? It doesn't make sense as it reads. To me anyway.

I think they mean "pricing their product out of reach of X market"

From my sources: no price increase, just VAT raise. Hence groans of awkward pricing from manager friends....

Wonder how long until the US prices are raised to "match" the increase in the UK price due to VAT. And we'll hear how they were supposedly passing the decrease on to the US as well by mistake or some such. They already have a wonky structure for their US pricing compared to UK, making most things cost anywhere from 3-10 dollars less ordering online from the UK, even taking VAT into account. All that is before you bring UK online discounters like Maelstrom's pricing discount into the equation.

[RANT]

Increasing taxes hurts everyone, but most of all small and medium sized businesses and the middle class. It's only a matter of time before all GW production is done in China or some other country. The more a business or individual is taxed, the more cost saving avenues they need to pursue. It's a pretty simple concept. For reasons unknown to me, Europe and America fail to understand this.

[/RANT]

Grot 6 wrote: This is only another excuse for GW to raise the prices to the point of out pricing thier product.

Sucks, but if they raise any more, I'm going to cut them and stick to my superfigs, pulp city, and other skermish stuff.

If I was a new player, it would be a great time to raid E bay for all of that unwanted christmas love, and return to Gorkamorka and Necromunda!!!

I don't think you understand my post, it's not an excuse on the part of GW to raise prices, it's a VAT rise implemented by the government!

As for those of you who think GW should stump up the money themselves and not follow the 2.5% rise. Would you be happy for GW to close stores, reduce opening times even more and generally offer less to us gamers than they do now, as they would have to do something along these lines in order to balance the books. Nothing in life is free, and if you want GW to stump up hundreds of thousands of pounds so that your tactical marines cost 20p less then be prepared to lose your Thursday gaming nights for example.

Too many people want everything dirt cheap, but still want fantastic models, excellent stories, customer service and a store in every town. VAT is not GW's fault, and they are perfectly entitled to pass it on to us as it isn't their idea to raise VAT. it makes no difference to GW's profits anyway, people seem to forget that GW don't see any extra money as it goes straight to the Government! If you want someone to whinge about, try them!


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SpankHammer III wrote:How do? how's the dark eldar coming?

Really? I understand GW is a business and that VAT is out of GW's control and that they did lower prices (in the uk) for the period that VAT was reduced but it wasn't that long ago that a Basilisk went from £25 to £30 and my shock troopers when from £12 to £15. What was that hike for?

Don't get me wrog probably still buy the models, just a little concerned that my already exspensive hobby might be getting pricier. Especially with my beastmen in the army in the wings.

Yeah buddy, going well. Really I'll at the minute though which isn't so good!

Unfortunately I don't know why GWs prices increased before, however as you said yourself, GW is a business and they will have their reasons. However as you also pointed out, the VAT increase isn't their doing and is such out of their control. They passed on the reduction so really they are perfectly in their rights to pass on the increase. The VAT increase and GWs price increases shouldn't be compared as they are not the same thing and as such shouldn't be talked about as if they were.

The Decapitator wrote: The VAT increase and GWs price increases shouldn't be compared as they are not the same thing and as such shouldn't be talked about as if they were.

Except that's what you did in the title of this thread:

"Re:GW price increase! But it's not their fault!!"

You even used three exclamation points.

And even though a VAT increase isn't a price increase, you do call a VAT decrease a price decrease:

When the VAT went down to 15% GW REDUCED it's prices

Of course, this only happened in the UK, I'm pretty sure here in the US and the rest of the world the prices stayed the same.



So now you don't want to call the VAT increase a price increase? Then what's the point of this thread? I really can't grasp what you're trying to say.

hahaha just read someone say they dropped their prices when VAT dropped.... well i stopped modelling right before that and started when they hiked them back up again! DAMN IT! well there you go. i would go on about politics at this point but i assume there is a rule depicting otherwise

theHandofGork wrote:

The Decapitator wrote: The VAT increase and GWs price increases shouldn't be compared as they are not the same thing and as such shouldn't be talked about as if they were.

Except that's what you did in the title of this thread:

"Re:GW price increase! But it's not their fault!!"

You even used three exclamation points.

And even though a VAT increase isn't a price increase, you do call a VAT decrease a price decrease:

When the VAT went down to 15% GW REDUCED it's prices

Of course, this only happened in the UK, I'm pretty sure here in the US and the rest of the world the prices stayed the same.



So now you don't want to call the VAT increase a price increase? Then what's the point of this thread? I really can't grasp what you're trying to say.

The title of this thread was meant to be ironic, seen as most people already seem to think GW increases it's prices too much as it is. The use of exclamation marks was also meant to portray the 'urgency' and 'importance' of the content if this thread. I also think it's pretty clear but I'll break it down for you anyway, the reason that a VAT increase and a price increase should not be compared is because one is decided by GW as a business and the other is forced in them by an external source and is as such taken out of their hands. And before you say, "Yes, well, GW don't have to pass this on to their customers", Then I suggest you read one of the previous posts where it is explained by a few different people why this is not a very good idea.

As for you not understanding what I am trying to say, I'd be inclined to think the problem may actually lie with you. I think I've explained the purpose of this thread pretty clearly, in fact others have commented on this, and as the vast majority of people who have passed comment on this thread understood it perfectly well, so as I said I'd be inclined to think the problem lies with you.

Why is it that everything on Dakka seems to devolve in arguments and pseudo-insults disguised as constructive comments? I started this thread to inform people of the upcoming VAT increase, and whilst I understand that I've made my personal views known on the subject, I don't understand why people who disagree with the views feel the need to make certain comments instead of just posting their own thoughts on the matter. It always seems to get personal, and there's simply no need for it.

battle Brother Lucifer wrote:/rage

jk. I live in the US, and no longer buy from the GW directly (save for paint)
So it shouldn't affect me that badly.

You actually pay that much for paint?

I buy Citadel Foundation and Metallics as those are the best paints in their class I've had the pleasure of using.

I mostly use Ral Partha, Reaper and VGC or VMC paints for general painting as Citadel colors suck ass in those categories.