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Kanluwen wrote:

Flashman wrote:If it's a monster that everyone can use, then I shall be disappointed. They did that already when they released the Warhammer Giant i.e. made it available for most races, but later went "Ho hum, did we say that? Well maybe it's ok in friendly games, but it's not really official. Oh you went out and bought a Giant for your VC army. Er... I guess you could use it as a background scenery piece."

Where did they ever say that?

Dogs of War

Now yes I'd admit no one usually took giants. They just took frigging Mercenary Cannons becuase if theres one thing every army needs, its cannons

I'm thinking more Dogs of War.

Apocalypse worked for 40k thanks to Forgeworld. Essentially, the models were there, and people liked them.

Fantasy doesn't really have a range suitable, at present. Of course with Warhammer Forge looming, this is set to change. But in time for next year? Perhaps not so much.

No, I'm now thinking Dogs of War. It's something for everyone, and the sort of range you can add to whenever and indeed whatever.

Kanluwen wrote:

Flashman wrote:If it's a monster that everyone can use, then I shall be disappointed. They did that already when they released the Warhammer Giant i.e. made it available for most races, but later went "Ho hum, did we say that? Well maybe it's ok in friendly games, but it's not really official. Oh you went out and bought a Giant for your VC army. Er... I guess you could use it as a background scenery piece."

Where did they ever say that?

It's pretty much exactly what they said when they released the plastic Warhammer Giant. They stated in WD that giants could now be used by Empire, Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings, Skaven and Dark Elves (in addition to Ogres, Orcs and Goblins and Chaos) so that everyone would run out and buy one and then later pretended it was all just for fun. Glad I never fell for it.

Yes Flashman, because the hobby begins and indeed ends with official rules.

Kanluwen wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

quakejake13 wrote:could it be the return of the "Dogs of War" and "Regiments of Renown"?

Either that or a wave release of assorted regiments that need redoing. Those are the only things that would really come close to universal appeal.

Except most armies have never had access to most of the regiments. Undead(either flavor), Chaos(any flavor), Dark Elves, Lizardmen, and Ogres had no entries for the RoRs.

So fix it? The Lizardmen already have Tichi-Huchi's Raiders and ogres have their own representatives among the mercenaries, but there's no reason why they couldn't throw in a couple of Sylvanians, some Norsemen for Chaos, and a few other new Regiments of Renown.

Except most armies wouldn't have access to it.

Says who? The Emperor Dragon has a statline in the main rulebook. Just because it, at this moment, is only available to people with a specific Lore doesn't mean that you can't just use it without the Lore.

Dwarves and Brettonians certainly wouldn't use it, for a start. Beastmen, Daemons, Skaven and Undead aren't likely to either.

Kanluwen wrote:

Flashman wrote:If it's a monster that everyone can use, then I shall be disappointed. They did that already when they released the Warhammer Giant i.e. made it available for most races, but later went "Ho hum, did we say that? Well maybe it's ok in friendly games, but it's not really official. Oh you went out and bought a Giant for your VC army. Er... I guess you could use it as a background scenery piece."

Where did they ever say that?

Plus, in the case of an Emperor Dragon or the like...don't think of it as "Hey Giant Dragon, come fight for us!" think of it as "Oh balls. We've woken a sleeping monstrosity. Oh well, let's try to poke it and blame the other guys!"

It's cool because we just know Warhammer needs a more large monsters to make the game less and less about the dozens of units that the armies are supposed to consist of both in background material and in sample army lists and force organisation.

Sure it's a given that 40K Apocalypse is slowed, non-competitive and played actively by maybe a total of five guys on this planet, but the same kind of push in Warhammer would/will be far and beyond slowed. Hey kids! Put that Dark Elf Warrior box down! You don't want those! You want a formation of 10 Hydras with a special super duper combined D strength breath attack! Stay tuned for the MEGA uber monster kit we're releasing next month!

Anyone remember the old Emperor Fire Dragon rules from FW?

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/D/dragemp.pdf

I wouldn't mind something like a big ol' dragon on its own. I'd probably pick one up to turn into a Coatl for my Lizardmen, even just as a display piece.

Mr Mystery wrote:I'm thinking more Dogs of War.

Apocalypse worked for 40k thanks to Forgeworld. Essentially, the models were there, and people liked them.

Fantasy doesn't really have a range suitable, at present. Of course with Warhammer Forge looming, this is set to change. But in time for next year? Perhaps not so much.

No, I'm now thinking Dogs of War. It's something for everyone, and the sort of range you can add to whenever and indeed whatever.

The problem with apoc for fantasy is not the model range.. Its that the game simply isnt suited to that kind of battle. In 40k you have easy ways to affect other sides of the battle but due to WFB's rigid movement system and minimal shooting that becomes almost impossible

Youre better off playing 2 or 3 side by side games because nothing from one side will affect the other

GW would have to drastically alter the game for huge battles to be even remotely enjoyable, I seriously doubt that's going to happen

Kirasu wrote:The problem with apoc for fantasy is not the model range.

40k Apocalypse is for 3000+ point games without a FOC.
The new Warhammer Fantasy edition is for 3000+ point games without a FOC, so doesn't need an Apocalypse version.

Mr Mystery wrote:Yes Flashman, because the hobby begins and indeed ends with official rules.

Some people enjoy having official and well-tested rules for their games. What is wrong with that?

You might as well not bother Neconilis, people have been asking that question for years and have yet to get a real answer.

Neconilis wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:Yes Flashman, because the hobby begins and indeed ends with official rules.

Some people enjoy having official and well-tested rules for their games. What is wrong with that?

They why are they playing GW games?

What?

You were all thinking it.

Because competitive players like the fluff and models, too?

The only reason people think they don't is because they meet the worst of the worst and then assume every single competitive person in the world that plays any game is exactly like that.

No one would play this game if they didn't at least partially enjoy the background and felt the models were worth spending hundreds of dollars on. No one gets into this game for simple "ego-stroking" like what's often implied.

Sidstyler wrote:Because competitive players like the fluff and models, too?

You didn't get Kid_Kyoto's point: Some people doubt that GW does thorough playtesting anymore coughpyrovorecough

Mr Mystery wrote:Yes Flashman, because the hobby begins and indeed ends with official rules.

I am more than happy to mess around the ruleset for my own games (e.g. terrain on my battlefields is decidedly unmystical), but my issue with the Giant is that they expanded the armies that could include it and implied the ruling was official to increase sales of the model. A year later and could those Empire/VC/TK/Skaven/Dark Elf players use it in any sort of nonfriendly game? No.

the GW game I was excited about 20 years ago was Man-o-war

(a fantasy precursor to BFG for you young tykes out there)

I doubt it will ever return though

Kandle wrote:the GW game I was excited about 20 years ago was Man-o-war

(a fantasy precursor to BFG for you young tykes out there)

I doubt it will ever return though

No it wasnt, the precursor to BFG was space fleet which was released in 1991 followed by man o war in 1993

You are right though with it not returning which is such massive shame

Kroothawk wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:Because competitive players like the fluff and models, too?

You didn't get Kid_Kyoto's point: Some people doubt that GW does thorough playtesting anymore coughpyrovorecough

lol, admittedly I don't really "get" the pyrovore...I don't get a lot about Codex: Tyranids, actually...

Man-o-war sounds fun, I'm guessing it's like WHF ship battles then?

Yea it was ship to ship battles



Do not know whether the fluff is still canon though. Bretonnians for one are actually the best navy of the old world (something about coastal brets pretty much being a lot more like british sea empire or something)

Quest. Warhammer Quest.

Players of all armies can make use of it. And it would be 2011's Space Hulk I'd imagine, a single run boxed game. Seeing as we've just had Fantasy, and 40k is most likely due in 2012, they have a gap for a major release.

Plus, think of the revenue! Include the old monster list, and that's a lot of plastics and metals sold purely to those playing Quest alone.

Mr Mystery wrote:Quest. Warhammer Quest.

Players of all armies can make use of it. And it would be 2011's Space Hulk I'd imagine, a single run boxed game. Seeing as we've just had Fantasy, and 40k is most likely due in 2012, they have a gap for a major release.

Plus, think of the revenue! Include the old monster list, and that's a lot of plastics and metals sold purely to those playing Quest alone.

I would really, really like to see this happen. Might even put some money aside as a just-in-case.....

Give what they packed into it before, I'm squirelling away £100...just in case.

This would give me such a nerdgasm if it's true, I'll be peeling by trousers off the moon!

This is what I said when 3rd Ed Hulk came out - the only logical choice for a Limited Release Fantasy-based game would be one where the game is self-contained. The only really self-contained Fantasy game is Quest. You could put in about 8 plastic heroes, and then 3 full frames of great new bad-guys, all the old tiles, and just include as much stuff from the expansions in the basic box.

No support needed - everything that comes in the box is all you need.

Yup, so it makes sense. I do believe we'll see it, but whether it's in 2011 is just a guess!

Please GW....if you're reading this....DO IT.

Mr Mystery wrote:Yup, so it makes sense. I do believe we'll see it, but whether it's in 2011 is just a guess!

Please GW....if you're reading this....DO IT.

I think the world would end before GW takes internet advice

But knowing GW, they would make 10.000 $ steel moulds for a total of 100 WQ boxes, sell them on one day in selected GW stores and be happy how fast they sell out!

As long as they actually sell it, and I get my grubby mitts on one, I couldn't give a rats ass!

And if I am right, and it's another Space Hulkesque limited release, I certainly hope Store Managers show a little more backbone this time and not allow scalper arseholes to buy multiple copies, creating and inflating the second hand market all at once. Seriously pisses me off scalping like that!

Why should they care? They got paid for it, that's all that matters.

I really don't see any GW employee refusing to sell five boxes of them to a guy who came in willing to throw down the cash for them.

Sid...were I still working for them (and hadn't missed the Space Hulk release by a month when I re-joined last time) I'd have limited it to two per customer to be honest. It's not like I wouldn't sell them all without the help of scalpers. That the scalpers scalping actually worked is proof enough of that fact.