Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/24 15:57:18
Subject: Re:Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S
|
Arctik_Firangi wrote:BrookM wrote:Excellent on-line customer services, yes. Free shipping and swift delivery? Ace.
Their brick and mortar stores? No thanks, I stopped going there after the cool kids were fired and replaced by massive tools who do the leg hump tactic the moment you step in. "OHHIDIDYOUKNOWTHEREARENEWDARKELDARTHATYOUSHOULDTOTALLYBUY!!!" Decline their offer and be prepared for the stare. Also, don't crack jokes about their sales tactics, hoo boy.
I was under the informed impression that GW staff approach customers because it's their job. If they're leghumping then they're bad employees for a start... but on the other hand if you're too socially stunted to impress upon them that you're "just looking" then you probably deserve it. Going into a GW to take the piss out of them is probably a bad idea, yeah. That applies to just about everywhere else too.
Wow, from green straight to red skipping orange. Classy mate, real classy.
|
Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/24 16:09:01
Subject: Re:Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Hacking Shang Jí
|
Arctik_Firangi wrote:BrookM wrote:Excellent on-line customer services, yes. Free shipping and swift delivery? Ace.
Their brick and mortar stores? No thanks, I stopped going there after the cool kids were fired and replaced by massive tools who do the leg hump tactic the moment you step in. "OHHIDIDYOUKNOWTHEREARENEWDARKELDARTHATYOUSHOULDTOTALLYBUY!!!" Decline their offer and be prepared for the stare. Also, don't crack jokes about their sales tactics, hoo boy.
I was under the informed impression that GW staff approach customers because it's their job. If they're leghumping then they're bad employees for a start... but on the other hand if you're too socially stunted to impress upon them that you're "just looking" then you probably deserve it. Going into a GW to take the piss out of them is probably a bad idea, yeah. That applies to just about everywhere else too.
This is a pretty unfair criticism of BrookM. I've been to just about every nerdly business on the planet in several countries, and I've never gotten the hard-sell-the-moment-you-step-in-the-door at any of them that I get at a GW store. Even in high-end shops, most stores allow you a little bit of time to browse on your own before hitting you up with sales pitches. And most sales pitches for other products are made up of something more enticing than breathless if clueless enthusiasm.
I go to GW stores because I want to talk to someone IRL about miniatures and don't have any other venues to do so. I get tired of getting hit up to buy the latest release/overpriced hobby tool/scenery completely irrelevant to my army/pot of paint every single time I set foot in the store. And the black shirt in my store knows I'm not going to buy something every time I come in. And yet he still jumps in with the hard sell.
The sad thing is, most days my enthusiasm is pretty near the tipping point for a purchase. If my local GW guy would relate to me as a human being (as opposed to a generic carbon-based cash delivery vehicle) they could probably get me to buy more. For example, my beastmen army is my first Fantasy army, and I've told my local GW blackshirt that. And yet he's done nothing to encourage me to buy product faster other than to directly ask me to buy product faster. If he'd invite me to play a demo game with him or introduce me to some local players or talk about my planned army list or whatever I could conceivably spend twice as much per year and get some personal enjoyment out of it. But my blackshirt doesn't seem to want to relate to me outside of The Hard Sell, so I get annoyed with being in the shop, and most weeks decide I'd rather spend my free cash on beer/steaks/etc. Good salesmanship isn't just asking the customer if they want Devlan Mud with that. It's making the customer want to spend more. It's creating value for your product through your relationship with the customer, not just proclaiming your product to be the Porsche of Miniatures.
|
"White Lions: They're Better Than Cancer!" is not exactly a compelling marketing slogan. - AlexHolker |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/24 17:10:23
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
|
I see the high prices of GW as a form of insurance: you pay for your models and pay a bit extra for insurance that if something is damaged, they tend to replace it for you with no questions asked: I had damaged models and even offered to send the damaged models back, either by mistakes in the directions or an incomplete box set and get a refund of a new model that is not damaged/incomplete, but was always told to keep the original model. You pay higher prices for the insurance that if something does go wrong, you will be refunded and end up with some free material. It's just like car, home, or health insurance, but instead that higher cost is just added into the models instead of being tacked on as an extra-it's hobby insurance. Yes, we gripe about GWs high costs, just like we gripe about all other insurances-but we still pay them because we need to. This is just a luxury insurance. I complain about GW prices myself, but when I get that box of berzerkers missing a leg/arm sprue and call them up and get a full 4 additional berzerkers, or ruin my first drop pod because the diagram in the instructions are inaccurate and they send me a new drop pod free of charge, I remember why I pay that extra: to insure myself that damaged goods will be replaced. So thank you GW for the great customer service. Even if your 'insurance' does cost the same as my car insurance per month
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/24 17:10:49
Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/24 17:12:21
Subject: Re:Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S
|
Stuff has changed in the GW stores, period. Back then you could talk with staff about anything hobby related and they had the time to go into stuff, be it painting, tactics or the odd rumour discussion. But with the old guard removed it's all about selling boxes now, they've got quota to meet and the flavour of the month needs to be pushed hardest.
|
Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/24 17:50:01
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Painting Within the Lines
Western PA
|
timetowaste85 wrote:I see the high prices of GW as a form of insurance: you pay for your models and pay a bit extra for insurance that if something is damaged, they tend to replace it for you with no questions asked: I had damaged models and even offered to send the damaged models back, either by mistakes in the directions or an incomplete box set and get a refund of a new model that is not damaged/incomplete, but was always told to keep the original model. You pay higher prices for the insurance that if something does go wrong, you will be refunded and end up with some free material. It's just like car, home, or health insurance, but instead that higher cost is just added into the models instead of being tacked on as an extra-it's hobby insurance. Yes, we gripe about GWs high costs, just like we gripe about all other insurances-but we still pay them because we need to. This is just a luxury insurance. I complain about GW prices myself, but when I get that box of berzerkers missing a leg/arm sprue and call them up and get a full 4 additional berzerkers, or ruin my first drop pod because the diagram in the instructions are inaccurate and they send me a new drop pod free of charge, I remember why I pay that extra: to insure myself that damaged goods will be replaced. So thank you GW for the great customer service. Even if your 'insurance' does cost the same as my car insurance per month 
I have the same insurance with a lot of stuff. I buy practically anything and its not right. I complain to the seller and I get replacement. I buy socks at wal mart and they replace them if the seam is poorly done. I buy kitchen knives and they don't hold the edge as advertised then they get replaced. I go to my local hobby shop and purchase anything there. if there is a problem then the store replaces it without question.
Now I will concede that I don't get to keep the original defective item in most cases unless it was a disposable item. GW replacing without return is actually an economical choice anyway. It cost more to return the item and process it. That is it. And what are they gonna do with a defective sprue anyway? Recycle it? They gotta ship it again to the plant. Throw it away? Why have it shipped back anyway.
The sole reason that the price is high is because the community tolerates it with the fact that they keep spending the money to prove GW made the financially correct decision.
|
The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/24 18:15:28
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Skink Chief with Poisoned Javelins
|
This thread seems to have been totaly derailed somewhere along the way.
Wasn't this supposed to be the "GW is not so bad" thread?
On topic I look at the stores as more a of a gateway for alot of people who have no experience with wargaming. And it gives those who try a good way to pick up new skill sets like painting or terain building. And gives alot of diverse people a chance to be social.
|
Sir Isaac Newton may be the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space, but John von Neumann is the logistics officer that eats your problems and turns them into kit. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/24 18:15:56
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer
|
I have no beef with GW. The business is in need of some serious help.
They have a chance to really get mainstream, and they seem to timid to do so. The company is not "aggressive" enough
|
Armies:
4000+
2000
125 Khador
1500 Beastmen
W/L/D
14/11/10
4/1/3
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/24 18:30:29
Subject: Re:Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Hunter with Harpoon Laucher
Castle Clarkenstein
|
Their support for independent retailers far, far outstrips anything that any other company does. Free racks, free shipping, preview books and models, event support. Trust: If I call in a problem with a box, they ship me a new one. I don't have to ship it back first, take pictures, or wait 6 weeks. I get sick of the runaround other companies put me through after they ship me bad product. A retailer can recieve thousands of dollars in support from GW every year, and use it to support their community of gamers.
I've found them overall to be a flexible, generous, and well run company.
|
....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/24 18:37:02
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
|
timetowaste85 wrote:I see the high prices of GW as a form of insurance: you pay for your models and pay a bit extra for insurance that if something is damaged, they tend to replace it for you with no questions asked: I had damaged models and even offered to send the damaged models back, either by mistakes in the directions or an incomplete box set and get a refund of a new model that is not damaged/incomplete, but was always told to keep the original model. You pay higher prices for the insurance that if something does go wrong, you will be refunded and end up with some free material. It's just like car, home, or health insurance, but instead that higher cost is just added into the models instead of being tacked on as an extra-it's hobby insurance. Yes, we gripe about GWs high costs, just like we gripe about all other insurances-but we still pay them because we need to. This is just a luxury insurance. I complain about GW prices myself, but when I get that box of berzerkers missing a leg/arm sprue and call them up and get a full 4 additional berzerkers, or ruin my first drop pod because the diagram in the instructions are inaccurate and they send me a new drop pod free of charge, I remember why I pay that extra: to insure myself that damaged goods will be replaced. So thank you GW for the great customer service. Even if your 'insurance' does cost the same as my car insurance per month 
Rubbish. It's not "insurance" by any stretch of the imagination, it's a legal requirement. GW don't do anything that other companies are not expected to do. All shops are obliged under the sale of goods act and similar to supply you with a replacement product or your money back if the item sold to you is not 'fit for purpose', ie miscast, damaged or has parts missing. Having to abide by the law is not an adequate reason for jacking up the prices. The same laws apply to all manufacturers, even the cheap ones, everyone is obliged to replace damaged products.
The reason GW tell you usually not to bother returning something is because they could reasonably be expected to cover the cost of the postage and then once they have it back they would have to break up the kit and take out the parts that are still saleable and put them back into the production line to be repackaged and sold again. All that is likely more hassle and cost than the actual production cost and postage of the kit in the first place. It's much easier to simply write off the kit and send you another one. Job done.
The idea that GW should be so highly commended for replacing miscast models and could have their high prices justified in any way as a result is just barmy. Sure, they provide a good, professional replacement service, but lets not get carried away here. It's merely being professional and following retailing laws.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/24 18:39:42
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/24 18:59:35
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
It's the background that keeps me coming back to 40k. GW does a good job of working on their background (though I miss when the background actually progressed).
Quality of plastics is good, but there are other companies now with the same quality and lower prices.
Oh, there's also the nostalgia. It's not something GW does, but something they did. At this point in my life my happy thoughts about GW are based on my fond memories of the GW of the past.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/25 00:40:24
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
|
Howard A Treesong wrote:
Rubbish. It's not "insurance" by any stretch of the imagination, it's a legal requirement. GW don't do anything that other companies are not expected to do. All shops are obliged under the sale of goods act and similar to supply you with a replacement product or your money back if the item sold to you is not 'fit for purpose', ie miscast, damaged or has parts missing. Having to abide by the law is not an adequate reason for jacking up the prices. The same laws apply to all manufacturers, even the cheap ones, everyone is obliged to replace damaged products.
The reason GW tell you usually not to bother returning something is because they could reasonably be expected to cover the cost of the postage and then once they have it back they would have to break up the kit and take out the parts that are still saleable and put them back into the production line to be repackaged and sold again. All that is likely more hassle and cost than the actual production cost and postage of the kit in the first place. It's much easier to simply write off the kit and send you another one. Job done.
The idea that GW should be so highly commended for replacing miscast models and could have their high prices justified in any way as a result is just barmy. Sure, they provide a good, professional replacement service, but lets not get carried away here. It's merely being professional and following retailing laws.
You've never had to claim anything back on insurance, have you?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/25 00:50:58
Subject: Re:Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Stormin' Stompa
|
JOHIRA wrote:Arctik_Firangi wrote:BrookM wrote:Excellent on-line customer services, yes. Free shipping and swift delivery? Ace. Their brick and mortar stores? No thanks, I stopped going there after the cool kids were fired and replaced by massive tools who do the leg hump tactic the moment you step in. "OHHIDIDYOUKNOWTHEREARENEWDARKELDARTHATYOUSHOULDTOTALLYBUY!!!" Decline their offer and be prepared for the stare. Also, don't crack jokes about their sales tactics, hoo boy. I was under the informed impression that GW staff approach customers because it's their job. If they're leghumping then they're bad employees for a start... but on the other hand if you're too socially stunted to impress upon them that you're "just looking" then you probably deserve it. Going into a GW to take the piss out of them is probably a bad idea, yeah. That applies to just about everywhere else too. This is a pretty unfair criticism of BrookM. I've been to just about every nerdly business on the planet in several countries, and I've never gotten the hard-sell-the-moment-you-step-in-the-door at any of them that I get at a GW store. Even in high-end shops, most stores allow you a little bit of time to browse on your own before hitting you up with sales pitches. And most sales pitches for other products are made up of something more enticing than breathless if clueless enthusiasm. I go to GW stores because I want to talk to someone IRL about miniatures and don't have any other venues to do so. I get tired of getting hit up to buy the latest release/overpriced hobby tool/scenery completely irrelevant to my army/pot of paint every single time I set foot in the store. And the black shirt in my store knows I'm not going to buy something every time I come in. And yet he still jumps in with the hard sell. The sad thing is, most days my enthusiasm is pretty near the tipping point for a purchase. If my local GW guy would relate to me as a human being (as opposed to a generic carbon-based cash delivery vehicle) they could probably get me to buy more. For example, my beastmen army is my first Fantasy army, and I've told my local GW blackshirt that. And yet he's done nothing to encourage me to buy product faster other than to directly ask me to buy product faster. If he'd invite me to play a demo game with him or introduce me to some local players or talk about my planned army list or whatever I could conceivably spend twice as much per year and get some personal enjoyment out of it. But my blackshirt doesn't seem to want to relate to me outside of The Hard Sell, so I get annoyed with being in the shop, and most weeks decide I'd rather spend my free cash on beer/steaks/etc. Good salesmanship isn't just asking the customer if they want Devlan Mud with that. It's making the customer want to spend more. It's creating value for your product through your relationship with the customer, not just proclaiming your product to be the Porsche of Miniatures. BrookM wrote:Wow, from green straight to red skipping orange. Classy mate, real classy. I'm not sure what the problem is. You can either cope with the fact that GW employees have to do their job, or you can't. It's not like they aren't humans or hobbyists themselves. Are you saying that some of your mates got fired, or are you upset that they have to do their job and can't stand around talking about hobby with you all day? I don't know about GW stores in the rest of the world but they don't seem to have that problem over here... they aren't pushy sellers, like 'would you like fries with that?' It's not like you're ever going to buy something you don't want anyway, and it'd be a fool's errand to try to pull it off, not to mention terrible customer service in general. If they are doing that at your local store then they're not going to do particularly well for themselves. I'm pretty sure that part of their job is establishing rapport with regular customers (note; "customers") so if you're going in to crack jokes about their 'sales tactics' then you're pretty much actively disrupting their attempts to communicate with you on a human level. At that point even I'd be of the mindset, "Buy something or get out". Just because they work there it doesn't make them into little sales robots, and just because they approach you (once again, doing their job) it doesn't mean you have to have a great chat with them - "Just having a look thanks, I know the hobby pretty well". I talk to GW staff about hobby when I feel like it, and I don't get all cut up when they mention a release I've already heard of, or ask what I'm working on and make suggestions for purchases. The reasons they do it are pretty obvious, but then again the GW staff I've gotten to know are aware of the fact that I'm up-to-and-ahead-of-date. The stores clearly weren't as viable when it was the neckbeard's club, and I actually think they've gotten a lot better since they did the big shake-up of staff. There are significantly less weirdos in the GW stores around my local area these days. We're clearly of different opinions.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/25 00:52:32
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/25 01:02:12
Subject: Re:Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Fresh-Faced New User
|
Really the best part of Games Workshop is that there games survive the test of time. They make a product that has defined an industry, while it might not be the best rules, best minis, or best competition, it will be there after you take a break for 8 years. That is something special in the hobby gaming industry.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/25 01:51:39
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
Australia
|
Yup, I agree with Arctik there, my local store despite getting even smaller thanks to a location change has always been pretty good. The staff there are interested and enthusiastic, not too pushy, and willing to talk for awhile about any part of the hobby. Honestly, when I go in, I've usually got a purchase in mind, and I just make a point of engaging them first, that way, their mindset becomes 'great, finally a customer I dont 'have' to sell too'
Give them a break, in all honesty, how would most of us deal with a job where ninety percent of the customers were people like us or annoying little kids!
|
4th company
The Screaming Beagles of Helicia V
Hive Fleet Jumanji
I'll die before I surrender Tim! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 02:28:34
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Hacking Shang Jí
|
Jihadnik wrote:Give them a break, in all honesty, how would most of us deal with a job where ninety percent of the customers were people like us or annoying little kids!
I spend much of my time in my real job dealing with little kids and I think customers like me would be a dream to work with. Honestly, it's not hard to exercise the barest bit of empathy and try to relate to customers, as opposed to just asking them to buy moar please.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/26 02:29:03
"White Lions: They're Better Than Cancer!" is not exactly a compelling marketing slogan. - AlexHolker |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 02:37:39
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Stormin' Stompa
|
JOHIRA wrote:Jihadnik wrote:Give them a break, in all honesty, how would most of us deal with a job where ninety percent of the customers were people like us or annoying little kids! I spend much of my time in my real job dealing with little kids and I think customers like me would be a dream to work with. Honestly, it's not hard to exercise the barest bit of empathy and try to relate to customers, as opposed to just asking them to buy moar please. Your description does not match the GW employees I am familiar with. This must be why I keep hearing such bad things about American GW in general, and why Tom Kirby had to move to Baltimore and kick their arses into shape. Do you go to GW stores in Japan or are you native to somewhere else? You seem to be ignoring the point that all good retail employees exercise empathy and try to relate to customers (unless, of course, those customers are not suitable to relate to). I'm sorry if they employ retards over there; I really am. You should ship over 'ere to the good side of the world and give it a crack!
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/26 02:39:06
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 03:47:56
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Hacking Shang Jí
|
Arctik_Firangi wrote:Your description does not match the GW employees I am familiar with.
And this does not make my description wrong. Nor does it indicate any kind of failing in my personality, as you tried to imply with BrookM.
This must be why I keep hearing such bad things about American GW in general, and why Tom Kirby had to move to Baltimore and kick their arses into shape. Do you go to GW stores in Japan or are you native to somewhere else?
I'm a native of the US, living in Japan, going to GW shops in Japan.
The funny thing is, even the independent retailer I went to in Osaka didn't have the problems I see in GWs. It's not a Japanese thing, it's definitely a culture in the company.
You seem to be ignoring the point that all good retail employees exercise empathy and try to relate to customers (unless, of course, those customers are not suitable to relate to).
No, that's my entire point. I'm not asking for GW employees to do anything out of the ordinary. I'm asking them to uphold the basic level of customer service we demand from other stores. If we have GW stores that can't meet that standard (and while it's nice you have a GW store that does meet that standard, it's clear from listening to many GW customers that your case is not universal) then that is a serious problem for GW. Contrary to the title of the thread, they are indeed that bad. Now, they do have some points in their favor. They are not the worst company ever. They aren't Greyhound Busline bad. They aren't putting cadmium in drinkware. They aren't selling weapons to terrorists. But they are doing customer service badly. The fact that they can do a couple things right does not mitigate that.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/26 03:48:25
"White Lions: They're Better Than Cancer!" is not exactly a compelling marketing slogan. - AlexHolker |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 05:13:32
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon
|
GW and FW customer service is outstanding. Every issue I've ever had was resolved with 100% satisfaction.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 05:20:10
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Courageous Questing Knight
|
At Mt Gravatt, I usually buy things every so often. even if it's just a pot of paint.
it's out of respect that you buy something, if you're gonna patronize a store. how cheapskate is it to go to a store, use their recources and then leave without even so much as a single item bagged.
Now, if any of you have run a business, you could understand it. it's like "Can I use your phone?" and then not even offering to pay for the call.
And as for this
HOWDYDEECANUPLZBUYMYEXPENSIVEMODELKIT? ITREALLYCOOLLOOKTHERESALITTLELIGHTSHININGOUTOFTHEMIDDLE. SOYOUWANTFIVE?
I've never really experienced this. I've had the 'have you seen these models? they're rather cool.' and 'if you're buying this, have you thought about that?' and, on the contrary, I've had excellent advise with my new bretonnians, I've had a test game to see how the list works, [if anyone was there, the game with stealth cloaked nights.] and a bit of (albeit useless) painting advice.
|
DR:90S+++G++MB+I+Pw40k096D++A+/areWD360R+++T(P)DM+
3000 pt space marine 72% painted!
W/L/D 24/6/22
2500 pt Bretons 10% painted
W/L/D 1/0/0
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/337109.page lekkar diorama, aye? |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 12:25:28
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
|
Wolfun wrote:You've never had to claim anything back on insurance, have you? I have had to make an insurance claim yes. But I can't see the relevance in this case, the service GW offer through high pricing is not at all equivalent to insurance. When you buy something in a shop you are always covered by consumer law, you should never expect to pay more just to have your basic rights honoured. GW have to abide by the same laws as all the smaller wargames companies who produce much cheaper models. All you achieve by paying more is help compensate *them* for the occasional mistake, it should make no difference to the service you receive which is laid down in law. Basically the argument from timetowaste85 is that high GW prices are partly justified because they are good enough correct their own mistakes (ie replace damaged and miscast kits) when they arise, even though they have to do this by law. Bizarre. GW have him suckered, he's happily paying extra for something that the law already gives him. Put is this way, if GW or anyone else refused to replace a damaged or miscast model then you'd call trading standards.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/12/26 12:26:44
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 12:47:03
Subject: Re:Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Lord of the Fleet
|
JOHIRA wrote: I get tired of getting hit up to buy the latest release/overpriced hobby tool/scenery completely irrelevant to my army/pot of paint every single time I set foot in the store.
I don't what it is but I never get this.
I was in on Friday.
Staffer "Buying some paint?"
Me "Yup"
Staffer "What are you painting?"
Me "Guardsmen."
Staffer "Need anything else?"
Me "Nope, this is everything."
Staffer "That was easy"
Me "Have a good day."
Staffer "You too."
Not so hard, is it?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 12:57:34
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator
Durham, UK
|
If they're offering you random stuff that isn't appropriate to you, they're not doing their job very well. However if they're not offering you stuff, they're not doing their job. It's a tricky one to balance and with the shake up they've had this year, people are still getting used to how things are now.
As someone said previously, if you don't want something, it's really not hard to politely decline. If they're offering you something you've no interest in, it's easy enough to politely inform them it's of no interest to you.
Now I know I may be coming from a biased direction here, but I'll add my comments to what I like about GW. Well, I both like and hate this, every couple of months they discover more and more ways to make me go "OOOH SHINY!" and hand more of my wages back to them. I got into the hobby as a spotty faced teenager, and 13 years down the line they can still grab my attention with awesome new models, and I also like the cross-section of people I get to meet in the store.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 13:03:50
Subject: Re:Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
|
The biggest problem I have with the local GW store is that the rules get played a little wonky from time to time. Strange things like artillery can not be killed only the firing model are stuff like that.
|
40k: 2500 pts. All Built, Mostly Painted Pics: 1 -- 2 -- 3
BFG: 1500 pts. Mostly built, half painted Pics: 1
Blood Bowl: Complete! Pics: 1
Fantasy: Daemons, just starting Pic: 1 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 14:06:43
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Charging Dragon Prince
Chicago, IL, U.S.A.
|
ewwww this is a tough one. It's like loving the crack but hating the dealer but liking him anyway because hey at least he's around.
GW's brand extremism is good for their business, what is good for their business is good for the hobby in general, and also bad for it. Miniatures Wargaming wont ever change to GW gaming because a few purists will always hold fast, but they definitely have a brand name advantage. Nobody goes to a large con event and expects to find a game of Chainmail or AD&D Battlesystem on a competative tournament level. The proliferation of tournament play and such has led to the stuff I call the "GW METHOD".
When my brother was running a tourney at the GW Bunker last month I sat in with him, and I saw the scoring sheet for the painting judges. When there is even a GW method for judging something as abstract and aesthetic as a paintjob you can tell some people are just a little too far into hitting that crackpipe. They are measuring and dividing half a milligram of rock found in the carpet and arguing over who got the bigger hit.
I could go down their checklist meticulously adhering to every criteria for a point and end up painting the most god awful figure in the world that is just a hideous eyesore to look at, and score all but one of 40 or so points (something subjective like 'is the overall model pleasing'... one which I could even argue if I wanted).
Making lots of rules attracts people who are very into rules. Some people are very into rules. Some people are TOO into rules. They tend to be douchebags. GW made a rule to be able to kick you out. GW will not kick you out if they aren't busy, unless you are a douchebag. Now they have an excuse, so they don't have to say "You have to leave because you annoy everyone", they can say it is because you aren't buying anything. Plenty of people hang out at GW stores who have the tact to know when to shut up and stay out of an employees way when he is WORKING trying to get a 10 yr old into the hobby with his hovering parent watching over his shoulder and eyeing the prices with distaste.
Some people who are frequent store-flies are very tactful and know when to stay out of the way. They usually aren't asked to leave unless it's insanely busy, in which case they probably figured it out for themselves and don't need to be asked. Other trolls being asked to leave is because they are just not funpeople. Nobody wants to be on the clock for 8 hours and stuck on a slow day having to talk to some horrendous boor who bugs the hell out of them who isn't even a customer. "Buy something or leave" is really saying "SHUT UP DUDE YOU ANNOY THE PISS OUT OF ME!"
more power to em. Even the rules lawyers can't argue with it.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/12/26 14:33:39
Retroactively applied infallability is its own reward. I wish I knew this years ago.
 I am Red/White Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today! <small>Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.</small>I'm both chaotic and orderly. I value my own principles, and am willing to go to extreme lengths to enforce them, often trampling on the very same principles in the process. At best, I'm heroic and principled; at worst, I'm hypocritical and disorderly. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 14:33:59
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
|
To be fair: The painting standard that GW uses for tournaments is not too dissimilar to what is used for other tournaments/organized play.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 14:48:10
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Let's see...
1) I could go upstairs, right now and grab one of my armies, then walk the 5 minutes to my local GW Store (yeah, I'm lucky in that respect) and know with relative certainty I'll be able to get a game of whatever I've brought (hell, thanks to the combined efforts of the Manager and I, this now extends to War Of The Ring).
2) I know that if I buy something from GW, it's up to the task. Paint, brushes, glue, tools, brushes. Are they the best quality? I dunno, but suffice to say the quality is good enough that I've not had to look elsewhere. Make of that what you will.
3) They have a range of novels which reflect various styles of background. Currently enjoying the latest Ciaphas Cain novel. Love those ones!
4) I actually feel support by the company as a Hobbyist. I can walk into any store, and get advice on a project. I know I am welcome in their stores, and can chat to their staff about hobby related goodness.
5) Within their own stores, you don't really find a clique of gamers who demand things be done their way. Sure there are people seemingly always in there, but to find it being run 'by the vets' is increasingly rare.
So yeah, all things that other Wargames Manufacturers do not, or in many cases, cannot offer due to a lack of their own stores. As a comparisson, I spent quite a lot of money this year on GW products, and am happy to do so because I enjoy the hobby, and I know beyond shadow of a doubt I will get my monies worth out of them, due to the large community in my area. Other games however are more of a risk, as whilst I'm happy to spend whatever on my army, I'm not too keen on procuring and painting a new range, just to find others don't take to it and I wind up out of partners, or worse, a limited range of gamers to play against.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 15:08:48
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Courageous Questing Knight
|
^ thats it.
|
DR:90S+++G++MB+I+Pw40k096D++A+/areWD360R+++T(P)DM+
3000 pt space marine 72% painted!
W/L/D 24/6/22
2500 pt Bretons 10% painted
W/L/D 1/0/0
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/337109.page lekkar diorama, aye? |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 16:46:24
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
The ruins of the Palace of Thorns
|
I frequent three different GW stores (Oxford Street & Covent Garden in London, plus Bluewater in Kent, and have been into several more. Maidstone, Canterbury, Lakeside) as well as several independent stockists, most notably Dark Sphere under Waterloo several times.
No-one in a GW store has ever been rude to me, which is a lot more than I can say for Sainsbury's, Tesco, PC World, my local comic shop, numerous clothes shops and department stores. Everyone says you should expect politeness, but you don't actually get it everywhere. At GW, I have always been treated politely. I have had people check whether I want anything else, such as glue or paints, and sometimes even actually reminded me I do need more, and someone try to get me to buy Valkyries when they came out in plastic, and Garro on CD when he saw me looking at the other printed HH books, but never anything rude or that I could not say "no thanks" to. I have had numerous pleasant discussions about the hobby, and am almost always asked what armies I am collecting. Staff have been enthusiastic to see final painted or converted models once I am done with what I am buying, and have responded very appreciatively when I have noticed models they have painted in the display case that I particularly like. At GW Bluewater, the manager (Darren) even recognised me as a semi-regular from sixteen years previously when he used to manage the Maidstone store, and I remembered him too. We must have been chatting for a good hour, after I had already paid for my goods. Makes me go back there all the more.
I am not sure I love the company HQ, but by god, the staff in the stores have never once let me down.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 16:48:26
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Fifty, if you've ever been into the Tunbridge Wells Store, it is entirely possible we have crossed paths.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/12/26 16:54:21
Subject: Some reasons to reflect on why GW isn't so bad.
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
The ruins of the Palace of Thorns
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
|