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Connor McKane wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote: Doomthumbs: seriously?


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Connor McKane wrote:What’s great about this is, the fact that that is YOUR opinion. And It is wrong (in my opinion). I have made a good, solid argument about the recruitment method...and of why it has Pros, and why it has Cons. You can make all the hippy "fluff" marines you like, that throw daisies at one another as a recruiting method. But Mine will be harshly and continuiously tested and failure means death, there is no room for weakness in the 41st millennium. So Thanks for the input and criticism... but I believe you are done here.

How is killing wolves or giant lizards 'hippy'? If a chapter has marines that could be killed by 3 normal humans it hasn't done a very good job training its marines, so either it never gets new recruits or has a whole lot of poorly trained marines.

See... you have to take one stance, or another. Your first argument is that it was wasteful to throw away marines. Now they are poorly trained? Pick an side and stick with it.

Besides these are children from a feudal world. Trained to hunt and kill by the time they can stand, the dont get their food from the Administratum. They are hardened and tough, and good with a knife or a bow. Three of them stand a chance to kill a marine, especially an unarmed one. So the marine also has a chance to kill them as well. It is a fairly matched engagement, if you think about it.

But youre not, thinking about it that is. Youre not interested in a discussion, all you are doing now is arguing for the sake of arguing, hoping that someone ANYONE will take you side, and give you the validation you desire. You are just gonna argue till I agree with you, so I think it is best you move on... thanks for your input, but your comments aren't really welcome anymore, as it is not longer advancing the thread.

I am not changing my side at all, if a marine is willfully killed by a chapter its wasteful, if he was killed by a child in combat he would have to be poorly trained

3 children (no matter where they are from) would not be able to kill a space marine. Fluff presents space marines as the pinnical of human perfection, the ultimate warriors capable of ripping aliens apart and smiting deamons, but in your view a few children can kill then, that would be GW sale figures down the toilet.

the tread isn't moving on because you can't accept common sence or canon fluff.

Hey Connor,

I think the opposition you're finding is due to people having an issue with a marine being killed by 3 normal humans. For example, in the fluff, many of the writers show a single Astartes calmly walking through waves of trained soldiers....so there is an inherent "hmm" reaction when you show 3 normal humans slaying one.

However, I really like the fact you are making the recruitment/training process specific to the chapter theme. In the heresy books, anytime they mention the training/recruitment process, it's always specific to the Chapter (For example, in Eisenstein the failed aspirant housecarl recalls the specific Death Guard testing rituals. So, keep going with the "Blooding" theme, it's good. Maybe you could add some details to the "Blooding" to make it easier for others to accept? For example;

Perhaps when they get to the final 10 or so recruits, each is given a weapon, a character symbol (Perhaps a blood tear/runic sign of their name) and cast out in the countryside. The goal is to return to the lodge with all 10 runic signs. Whomever returns with all 10, is accepted into the program. Grimdark, fits the blooding, etc.

Or maybe explain why they are able to defeat the space marine. Perhaps he is handicapped in some fashion that makes it easier to accept.

Anyways, just food for thought...keep going with it and love the painting.

AgeOfEgos, I really like that 10 man runic symbol hunt idea. Seriously. Add Connor ... That's all the makings of a Space Marine/Highlander hybrid. There can be only one!
The point everyone on the 'against' side of this argument seems to be missing is that what usually happens is the marine rips one of the kids in half and beats the other two to death simultaneously with the pieces. This happens over and over and over and over and over and then they do it again just to make sure. It usually ends with one fully alive marine and three stomped to death pathetic jungle pukes.

But every now and then one of these wishful bastards will actually maybe be fast, strong, or smart enough to do it. That new marines first duty is to carry the body of the other marine to the apothecary, because thats what you do with downed marines. Because geneseed is hard to make and keep pure. So these marines that live for hundreds of years have been downed before, I'm sure.

Obviously if the kid rips the marine apart bad enough to necessitate entombing him in a dread, maybe that marine just does get to die. Because he certainly wouldn't be dread material. That crazy kid though... make that boy a marine.

Also, its Connor's Fluff. It won't change the rules of the army at all while he tables you.

BluntmanDC wrote: Doomthumbs: seriously?

How is killing wolves or giant lizards 'hippy'? If a chapter has marines that could be killed by 3 normal humans, it hasn't done a very good job training its marines. Either it never gets new recruits, or has a whole lot of poorly trained marines.

I am not changing my side at all. If a marine is willfully killed by a chapter it's wasteful; if he was killed by a child in combat he would have to be poorly trained.

3 children (no matter where they are from) would not be able to kill a space marine. Fluff presents space marines as the pinnacle of human perfection, the ultimate warriors capable of ripping aliens apart and smiting deamons. In your view a few children can kill them, that would be GW sale figures down the toilet.

The thread isn't moving on because you can't accept common sense or canon fluff.

F

Serious as I could possibly be. You're behaving (and typing) like someone who is either undereducated or willfully ignorant. I've corrected what I can.

The problem you all seem to have is that you are making assumptions based upon your bias's. You have no idea what the children from the recruitment world are like. The Marine is unarmed and unarmored. What if these children are trained from birth for this?

In truth you all don’t know anything about the recruits of the marines chosen. You just are all making assumptions.

What if the human children on this world are physically larger than a standard grown adult? What if they are incredibly strong due to gravitational anomalies? 3 armed Catchan children could easily kill an unarmed and unarmored marine... so here you go... the children from the recruitment world are 10 times as awesome as the Catchans. There happy, now move the feth along.

In the Souldrinkers omnibus, a child kills a chapter master.

Marines fall to random cultists with stubbers all the time.

Oversized dragonflies killed a bunch of blood angels in the Blood angel omnibus.

You think marines are invincible? Then you are an idiot.

Regular guardsmen kill orks all the time... orks kill marines all the time. So therefore a guardsman could kill a marine, just as a ork could kill a marine.

A 6 Always hits and a 1 Armor save always fails.

All you are doing is making assumptions. This is MY chapter... and your desire to have the last word Blunt, that’s just lame. I have thanked you for your input and advised you it was appreciated. But your argument is 1/2 baked. I wrote this fluff, so literally I am god and get to decide on the specifics of the outcome.

So continue to post here to keep the argument alive. Either way, I am happy with the fluff, I have written, and it will stay that way

So you get ignored. Bye bye.
_______________________________________________________________________

And also Doomthumbs I believe you are wrong. Bluntman made 15 errors in spelling, grammar and punctuation...

So, I believe, that he would get a 70 at 2 points per correction. Which is what my 5th grade teacher would have deducted per correction.

So it would be a D-

His 1/2 baked argument would get an F- though.

Connor McKane wrote: What if these children are trained from birth for this? Then by simple math, the marines that come from these kids have ALSO been training from birth for the time when they have to fight 3 kids.

Oversized dragonflies killed a bunch of blood angels in the Blood angel omnibus. Ze gargoyles! Zey do nothing!

Doomthubs: "Then by simple math, the marines that come from these kids have ALSO been training from birth for the time when they have to fight 3 kids."

Very true, which would mean the recruits would have to be VERY good, VERY Lucky or a combination of both.

Remember that the marine is unarmed and unarmored.

The children are (as of late) are fully Armed and Armored.

What if it isn't a stand up fight, what if they have to hunt or be hunted?

People are assuming that they are all thrown in a pit, a nd told to get-r-done.

There hasn't been much expounding done due to the negativity in this thread... which is a shame because I believe it coud really be good.

I don't pound my ex because my current wouldn't like it.

From the Spartan Agoge - “Once a year, the boys were tested for their endurance in front of the altar of Orthia Artemis, in the game of stealing cheeses. In order to reach the cheese the boys had to run a gauntlet of elders who whipped them severely as they passed. The ones who withstood this event, in which many died, without moans and cries, were crowned with wreathes.”

Now this was done by Ancient Spartans… don’t you think that in the Grimdark of the 41st century, it might need to be amped up a bit?

So instead of being whipped to death by your betters… maybe you get to fight back? And if you manage to kill one, you get to become a Marine?

Here... Try this then. Then tell me what you think, not what you assume.


*****************************

In the shadows of a spiked Adriedes bush, Ulf waited. From the time he could walk he had trained for this day. The harsh lessons of his masters had scarred and toughened his skin. The long months of winter on the continent of Koris had made the cold unnoticeable on his skin. He ran a hand over his armor absently as he felt something crawl under his Wyvern-skin armor. His short bladed sword swung softly in it bindings as he turned to look in the direction of a noise. He tried again inhaling deeply to catch the scent of sacred oils and “inhuman” smells that had lead him to this place.

He saw Bjiro, another aspirant, drop from the branches of a large dead tree into the underbrush. Bjiro had always been Ulf’s enemy, but today they HAD to work together. They had to kill “The Fallen,” if they wanted to become “A Blade of the Chosen.” - Ulf remembered the morning again, the look of “The Fallen.” He was an older warrior. His scarred skin shone in the morning sun, glistening with anointed sacred oils. He had a wily look about him, as if it was humorous he was here. The Chaplain read his failure aloud…

********************************************************

“Brother Killius, on Hargius, in the Devono Campaign, you disobeyed a direct order to not advance on the Ork line, but to hold the city gates of Antillies Alpha until reinforcements arrived, but in your thirst for blood you did lead your squad through the breach and into the Ork lines. This allowed remaining Orks, not engaged with your squad to flood into the city and thousands of Imperial Citizens perished. Do you deny this?”

Killius hung his head, but his voice was clear and full of respect. “No Chaplain, I have failed my battle brothers, my chapter, my Primarch, and my Emperor. My fall to the red thirst has been my failure. I can only hope that my life can be use to the Chapter and the Imperium of Man.”

The Chaplain nodded, his eyes were so sad, that Ulf felt something in his heart stir for The Fallen, but steeled himself for the deadly challenge to come.

**********************************************************

Ulf saw movement to Bjiro’s right and The Fallen launches his attack. It was faster than Ulf had ever seen someone move. He knew that Bjiro had a few seconds to live if he did not react. Bjiro spun and drew his sword, the arcing metal struck The Fallen across the abdomen. Blood flowed from the wound, thickening in the instant it hit air, This Fallen is no different from the others he had been told about. They might all die! He flushed the thought from his head and readied his Javelin.

The Fallen pounced on Bjiro before he could return the backswing of his sword. He grasped him by the neck and threw him across the clearing. He hit a tree with a sickening thud. Dead. Ulf knew it. And he knew that if he could not do the impossible, then he would be dead as well. It didn’t matter, his life. He knew that only by serving as a Chosen One, might he fulfill the greatest service to the God Emperor one can achieve. To die as a Chosen One.

He jumped from the stump as threw his javelin with all the strength he could muster. The bolt drove deeply into the side of The Fallen, but he simply turned and smiled savagely at Ulf. He tore Ulf’s javelin from his torso. Ulf drew his sword and danced on his heels, he would have to be speed, he would have to be steel if he was to live.

From the tree line 2 arrows in rapid succession drove into the back of the Fallen focused on Ulf. Kin, the child from the Plains Hunting Tribes appeared already knocking another arrow. Ulf Sprang forward at the distracted marine, his sword flashing in the afternoon sun. It drove into the neck of The Fallen, Ulf cried out, thinking he had won, but the marine bashed his aside like a doll with his forearm. He felt his bones break and crack under the assault, but he willed himself to stay awake. His young body would heal if he lived, he had to live.

The Marine has turned for Kin, and gotten, impossibly, 2 more arrows before he was able to grab Kin. Who to his credit was fearless to the end. The blow from the Marines fists sounded like a snapping twig in the glade. Ulf struggled to his knees as he saw The Fallen advance on him… and jump in a double fisted smash sure to kill him.

In the last second he braced his Javelin, near his outstretched hand where he lay, and The Fallen fell onto it, his ever increasing wild abandon had done him in. The mortal wound stuck, The Fallen knew it was done, he smiled through bloodstained teeth, his last words were ones that Ulf would remember till he joined the Emperor on the final day.

“You’ll do, boy… but do better than I. Now finish it.”

Ulf had no sense of victory as he drove his blade through the Chosen’s primary and secondary heart…. As he had always been taught. He then cried… for the first time in his life.

*********************************************************

The Chaplain walked beside Ulf as they entered the Thunderhawk.

“Master?” Ulf spoke, head hung, not daring to look the Chaplain in the eyes.

“Speak Boy, you have earned it.” The Chaplain said, his voice low and rumbling.

“The Fallen, did you know him?”

“Aye boy, he was a good friend, and a good Marine, but he fell, as we all will, the Red Thirst haunts us all. Only by mastering it can we hope to have a future at all.” His words were filled with wisdom Ulf had never experienced.
Ulf swallowed, and told the truth. “He spoke to me before he died.”

“Of course he did… I could hear. Brother Killius knew that he had Fallen… all he desired was to redeem himself… and he was honored to volunteer for the Blooding. He has prayed for a Aspirant to kill him for six years now. But every Blooding I must steele him to show no weakness, to do his duty, and kill if he can…and he has done it well. Now he may find peace.”

“May he find peace.” Ulf muttered as the Thunderhawk’s bay doors closed.

…Now the real tests would begin.

Nice story ^_^ There are spots I could nitpick at but as a creative outlet I can't complain as it was an interesting read.

The story is an interesting read, even if I'm unsure, outside of wanting to die, which was obvious, how the javelin wound was fatal.

Still trying to work out which Chapter Master was killed by a child in the Soul Drinkers omnibus, as



Nor do I remember any 'overgrown mosquitos' in the Blood Angels omnibus, as that only entails Deus Encarmine and Deus Sanguinius, which were focused on the Word Bearers....there were some scorpions that killed a un-enhanced Blood Angel aspirant, but no tyranids I'm guessing the mozzies are....mind you, I haven't read the two followup books yet, need to get around to that.


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At this point, there is little point refuting anything you have said, as you are just as unwilling to accept any criticism of your arguments as you claim Bluntman to be. You placed the Blooding up, and the idea was criticised because people didn't find it believable, agreeing with a previous quote of yours, 'Any marine falling to 3 "boys" is either past his prime, or his skills are wanting.' Marines don't age past their prime, and due to hypno-therapy and the like, don't really have the mental issues that would cause them to slip into PTS syndrome or something similar, so most of the time, he'd have to be lacking in skills, yet you later come out with the quote because people agreed with you 'What if the human children on this world are physically larger than a standard grown adult? What if they are incredibly strong due to gravitational anomalies? 3 armed Catchan children could easily kill an unarmed and unarmored marine... so here you go... the children from the recruitment world are 10 times as awesome as the Catchans.'

Well, if 3 Catachan children could easily kill an unarmed and unarmored Space Marine (Whether I think they could or couldn't isn't an issue), and your feudal worlds children (Which haven't had to struggle each day against every aspect of their world simply to survive, they've just been heavily trained) are 10 times more awesome than Catachans, then clearly none of the aspirants should ever die in this test, and your chapter should have no issues filling it's ranks....unless they're all so heavily skilled they look Mephistons statline look like the average Guardsman. Oh yes, that's right. The Space Marines must also come from the same stock, which means that they're probably 10 times more awesome than the average Space Marine too......

You are justifyably proud of your idea, and wish to stick with it. Kudos to you for that, and doing so despite so many disagreeing with it. Myself and others have used canon fluff established by the Black Library/Games Workshop authors to argue our point of view, at which point it's pretty much just been ignored, quite rudely in some cases....so there's no point continuing on. Good luck.

VenerableBrotherPelinore wrote:The story is an interesting read, even if I'm unsure, outside of wanting to die, which was obvious, how the javelin wound was fatal.

Still trying to work out which Chapter Master was killed by a child in the Soul Drinkers omnibus, as

Spoiler:

Gorgoleon was killed by Sarpedon, who held onto the title until the end of the omnibus. He was replaced by Eumenes later in the series, after the first three books, but took the title back after killing the treacherous marine.

Nor do I remember any 'overgrown mosquitos' in the Blood Angels omnibus, as that only entails Deus Encarmine and Deus Sanguinius, which were focused on the Word Bearers....there were some scorpions that killed a un-enhanced Blood Angel aspirant, but no tyranids I'm guessing the mozzies are....mind you, I haven't read the two followup books yet, need to get around to that.


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At this point, there is little point refuting anything you have said, as you are just as unwilling to accept any criticism of your arguments as you claim Bluntman to be. You placed the Blooding up, and the idea was criticised because people didn't find it believable, agreeing with a previous quote of yours, 'Any marine falling to 3 "boys" is either past his prime, or his skills are wanting.' Marines don't age past their prime, and due to hypno-therapy and the like, don't really have the mental issues that would cause them to slip into PTS syndrome or something similar, so most of the time, he'd have to be lacking in skills, yet you later come out with the quote because people agreed with you 'What if the human children on this world are physically larger than a standard grown adult? What if they are incredibly strong due to gravitational anomalies? 3 armed Catchan children could easily kill an unarmed and unarmored marine... so here you go... the children from the recruitment world are 10 times as awesome as the Catchans.'

Well, if 3 Catachan children could easily kill an unarmed and unarmored Space Marine (Whether I think they could or couldn't isn't an issue), and your feudal worlds children (Which haven't had to struggle each day against every aspect of their world simply to survive, they've just been heavily trained) are 10 times more awesome than Catachans, then clearly none of the aspirants should ever die in this test, and your chapter should have no issues filling it's ranks....unless they're all so heavily skilled they look Mephistons statline look like the average Guardsman. Oh yes, that's right. The Space Marines must also come from the same stock, which means that they're probably 10 times more awesome than the average Space Marine too......

You are justifyably proud of your idea, and wish to stick with it. Kudos to you for that, and doing so despite so many disagreeing with it. Myself and others have used canon fluff established by the Black Library/Games Workshop authors to argue our point of view, at which point it's pretty much just been ignored, quite rudely in some cases....so there's no point continuing on. Good luck.

No. You see I am accepting of you criticism, but you are correct, I am choosing to ignore it. See accpeting criticism does not mean that I have to change a thing. I believe what I have written is accurate, probable and acceptable to me.

Both you and Bluntman have decided your ideas are better, but they are not. You are also stating your opinion as fact, and also as representative of EVEYRONE on dakka. Which again it is not. So please refrain from saying "so many people" are disagreeing with me. It is just you two.

You aren't using canon to represent your argument, at no point have you shown me anything that says 3 fictional aspirants from a fictional feudal world, cannot kill a space marine... you are both saying that a space marine is unable to be killed by three aspirants, which is entirely possible. You are both still assuming you know anything about the aspirants which you do not, since I haven't said much about them.

So you are correct in the fact that I am sticking with my point, because it is accurate and well done, and I like it a great deal, and will not be swayed. So you won't be posting anymore, then so be it. Go with god.

***********************************************************************************

Also, Brother you state "Oh yes, that's right. The Space Marines must also come from the same stock, which means that they're probably 10 times more awesome than the average Space Marine too...... "

Thank you, if you would have just recognized that from the start.

Overall good Chapter, though as some others I got slight problems with children killing a space marine...I'll try and add something new to this...
While its possible to just ignore what other people says and thinks I'd advice you to keep in mind that there are certain "fluffrules" that it seems very odd to ignore.
When you decide to ignore these "rules" you appear stupid/ignorant/cheesy/heretical/whatever depending on the personal view of the follower of the "rules".
Also Black Library books are a bad reference(in some cases) for Space Marine perfomance, since some of them are so badly written and way, way wrong.(Marines with Multilasers for example).

If I understand this right, the entire male population of the planet are trained from the moment they can walk to be able to kill a space marine? Or is it just a chosen few that gets this training? Keep in mind that you can't really "throw" away the entire male population in a anti-space marine training program, there is so much more you need people to in the imperium.
Three children killing a space marine is to few...maybe increese the number to 10 atleast.
A planet where a 10-12 year old child can be trained to kill a space marine is a prime target for traitors, heretics and daemonic influence. Not to mention the demand from High Lords of Terra for them to increese their Imperial Guard count and I'd imanige they would be under constant watch from the inquisition and such for any since of mutations or genetical alteration commonly seen in Fabius Biles "New Man"(References: The Chaos Space Marine Codex).
If you keep it in the current form you really should be prepared to "flesh out" things like this to explain it, otherwise people will get stuck on this and won't see the good things about your Chapter's background.

*shrugs* My personal advice would be to change it so its 3 Neophytes against a Battle Brother. That removes the human child vs space marine issue and makes it even more "tragic" since they do infact have to kill a "brother" instead of a distant "angel of death" known from legends and tales.

If I understand it correctly the population of a "recruitment" world not be subject to Imperial Guard recruitment quotas... but possibly those that fail to become the 3 chosen for the blooding would be given over to the imperial guard.

And here is the thing about a Space Marine that many forget. They die all the time.

They may be the pinnacle of the Human Race, but they are still mortal.

Allow me to demonstrate something. Despite all the fluff, despite all the fiction, despite EVERYTHING, this is all based on a War-game.

Right? We all play it, or if we don't are interested in it, right?

So here you go. A lowly Imperial Guardsman Sergeant has been shot at by 3 space marines, and his unit has been decimated. He crouches alone in 4+ cover as the Marines bear down on him. His unit has been deemed Heretic because of the actions of his commanders, but he is a loyal Guardsman to the end mad mutters a prayer as the marines charge.

The Marines charge. The guard unit is a veteran squad and has snare mines, so the marines will get 1 attack each.

The roll (And this happens to me all the time, Back me up DT) is

a 1 a 2 and a 3

So Only one hit and a roll of 2 fails to wound.

Is any of this impossible, absolutely not. I do it all the time.

So the "Lowly" Sergeant, untrained till he was 20, and only in the Guard for 3 years (which is older than hell for most guardsmen since the average life expectancy of an Imperial Guard Trooper is 15 Hours) has a power sword, and gets his attacks back. (3 which is more than a REGULAR Space Marine would get in close combat)

He rolls a 3 a 4 and a 5.

2 Hits. To wound he rolls a 6 and a 5. Two wounds. Killing 2 marines. He wins the assault and the marines fall back.

So... stick with me kids... did a crappy IG Sergeant kill 2 marines? Yes he did. a crappy IG Sergeant killed 2 of the ultimate warriors of the Imperium.

"BUT HE HAS A POWER SWORD! ;( Semi-colon frowny face."

Ok. Three regular ole' peeing in our pants as we charge guardsman attack one marine on a charge. The marine will get one attack back (How is this possible Fluff says the guard should be dead just by looking at theis Space Marine!) and the 3 guardsmen get 2 attacks one base and one on the charge.

The Marine hits and wounds killing one Guardsman. The other guardsmen hit and wound on only 2 of their combined 4 attacks.

The marine rolls a 2 for his armor save... dead marine.

Can no one see why my position is more rooted in the "real" than anyone? Or am I the one eyed jack in the land of the blind?

****************************************************************************************************

So let me preface this thread from this point, I wont be changing the fluff, thanks for the input, but I like it and will be leaving it in place.

So instead of basing this chapter off of the "Fluff" of which almost all the disenters believe to be the final word (cough.. cough.. C.S. Goto)

** DISCLAIMER!!!! This Space Marine Chapter is not based on "C.S. GOTO FLUFFHAMMER" - This chapter is based off of the WARHAMMER 40K TABLE TOP GAME. Where 6's always hit and 1's always fail.

...Yes, I love it, I love everything about it!



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EmilCrane wrote:The best idea I've heard so far is that its what they do with the brothers who have fallen to black rage. That way they only lose a brother who is already gone and if a recruit can kill a black rage marine well I want that guy when we're picking sides.

Agreed. The chosen marine will alway be one who would have otherwise failed spectacularly in some fashion to which he would either have otherwise sworn a death oath, failed to follow orders, or shown weakness or fear or taint of some kind, fallen to the black rage or the red thirst, and deemed too savage or mentally unstable to continue as a battle brother.

Also, during the recruiment process, the Aspirants are trained till they are 12, and for the last 2 years they are trained by the Chaplains that are responsible for the recruitment. Since the primary enemy of a Space Marine is Chaos, they would be trained to kill... say it with me, SPACE MARINES. So the Chaplains would be training 100's of already battle worn, hardened recruits, well into manhood (14 is considered a man by almost every civilization but the 1st world here on earth.)

Then the 3 best recruits from an ENTIRE population of a planet specifically for this purpose, trained to kill Chaos Space Marines by the Heroes of the Imperium, I believe would have the near/same fighting skill level as a new Scout Marine, if not the psyology. Armed... they have a decent chance to kill a Marine (Who by all means would sometimes already intend to die).

Your rolling seriously is some of the worst I've ever seen,bordering on full scale gypsy curse.

Its like you file off dots trying to load your dice or something.
What's wrong with that boy? Semi colon frowny face.

Methinks you are the gypsy and your curse is my bad dice rolls. Why Doomthumbs!? Why?!

(=*********************************************=)

"WHY THE EMPEROR GIVES ME A BONER."

By Connor McKane.


.......

... Umm ok, this thread just go really, really weird.

Aha! You have to read the posts for it to make sense!

Here's the inherent problem with your fluff:

Replacing a Battle Brother with a younger one is not recruitment. Your recruitment method is, 9 times out of 10, going to result in no net increase of Battle Brothers.

In order to be a part of the 12th Founding, The Blades of Sanguinius would have to be 6,000 years old. This recruitment method has no believable way of sustaining your chapter for that amount of time.

Sure, I can understand a chapter using this method for a few hundred years, but they would eventually reach a breaking point where they could no longer sustain themselves due to combat loses.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of a sort of "death rite" to get into the chapter, but perhaps a more believable story would be something like Marines challenging their elders for Veterancy or Sergeant status.

In the end, if you want to do it, you can. Your plastic men, your fluff. But just think about this to yourself. Could this method keep the Blades alive for 6,000 years?

If the answer is no, you either need to change the recruitment method, or make them a much younger chapter still trying to find its legs.

shealyr wrote:Here's the inherent problem with your fluff:

Replacing a Battle Brother with a younger one is not recruitment. Your recruitment method is, 9 times out of 10, going to result in no net increase of Battle Brothers.

In order to be a part of the 12th Founding, The Blades of Sanguinius would have to be 6,000 years old. This recruitment method has no believable way of sustaining your chapter for that amount of time.

Sure, I can understand a chapter using this method for a few hundred years, but they would eventually reach a breaking point where they could no longer sustain themselves due to combat loses.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of a sort of "death rite" to get into the chapter, but perhaps a more believable story would be something like Marines challenging their elders for Veterancy or Sergeant status.

In the end, if you want to do it, you can. Your plastic men, your fluff. But just think about this to yourself. Could this method keep the Blades alive for 6,000 years?

If the answer is no, you either need to change the recruitment method, or make them a much younger chapter still trying to find its legs.

I am ing done with trying to pound some sense into you folks. You obviously didn't read the original post Shelyr... try and pay attention: if 1 recruit lives then they get 1 recruit, and lose one battle brother already lost (to the balck rage/red thirst/death oath)... if 2 survive, then they get 2. If all three survive, then they get three. If none survive then they get none and the batlle brother lives to test more recruits.

IN THE ORIGINAL BACKGROUND POST, THE FLUFF SAYS THE RECRUITMENT METHOD HAS BEEN FAILING THEM...THEY KNOW IT HAS NOT BEEN WORKING!!!

But did you take the time to read it? Nope. You didn't, you just threw your negativity onto the pile as everyone else has. It's sad to think that so many threads turn into pile of drek because people just read what is on the last page, and that is all.

The problem is you are not taking the time to read through the posts before posting, I am going to ask an admin to lock this thread, since you have turned it into a big waste of time. And since I am the only one taking the time to read the posts... then it shouldn't be a problem.

I like it, but what if they didn't need to kill the marine at all? What if they were just tested throughout the fight, if they win they advance if not they die. If they manage to kill the marine somehow they go to some special squad or something and if not they're either a marine or a corpse.


If the recruits are fully armoured and armed, while the marine is unarmoured I can actually see them standing a chance. A marine will die if they are struck in the head by a decent gun, or sliced enough with a decent blade. There's three of them against one, it should actually be sustainable a little. Obviously they wouldn't be doing just one test at a time but doing several leading to a slow but alright amount of new marines. The only real problem is how many would survive the actual process of becoming a marine, and obviously they would just do more tests to even it out a bit.

Also are these decent marines or just the more lackluster ones who would not be so much of a loss to the overall strength of the chapter? Because it sounds like it might also work as a sort of punishment.

Connor McKane wrote:

shealyr wrote:Here's the inherent problem with your fluff:

Replacing a Battle Brother with a younger one is not recruitment. Your recruitment method is, 9 times out of 10, going to result in no net increase of Battle Brothers.

In order to be a part of the 12th Founding, The Blades of Sanguinius would have to be 6,000 years old. This recruitment method has no believable way of sustaining your chapter for that amount of time.

Sure, I can understand a chapter using this method for a few hundred years, but they would eventually reach a breaking point where they could no longer sustain themselves due to combat loses.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of a sort of "death rite" to get into the chapter, but perhaps a more believable story would be something like Marines challenging their elders for Veterancy or Sergeant status.

In the end, if you want to do it, you can. Your plastic men, your fluff. But just think about this to yourself. Could this method keep the Blades alive for 6,000 years?

If the answer is no, you either need to change the recruitment method, or make them a much younger chapter still trying to find its legs.

I am ing done with trying to pound some sense into you folks. You obviously didn't read the original post Shelyr... try and pay attention: if 1 recruit lives then they get 1 recruit, and lose one battle brother already lost (to the balck rage/red thirst/death oath)... if 2 survive, then they get 2. If all three survive, then they get three. If none survive then they get none and the batlle brother lives to test more recruits.

IN THE ORIGINAL BACKGROUND POST, THE FLUFF SAYS THE RECRUITMENT METHOD HAS BEEN FAILING THEM...THEY KNOW IT HAS NOT BEEN WORKING!!!

But did you take the time to read it? Nope. You didn't, you just threw your negativity onto the pile as everyone else has. It's sad to think that so many threads turn into pile of drek because people just read what is on the last page, and that is all.

The problem is you are not taking the time to read through the posts before posting, I am going to ask an admin to lock this thread, since you have turned it into a big waste of time. And since I am the only one taking the time to read the posts... then it shouldn't be a problem.

He did read your posts and pointed out a clear problem in the time line. Also as fluff tells use only a small amout of recruits that pass initiation tests will actually survive the enhancements, so if three recruits survive you probably won't get three marines.

3 kids killing a space marine? Using in game rules and "rolls" to justify stupid fluff occurrences? This is ridiculous


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Connor McKane wrote:I am ing done with trying to pound some sense into you folks. You obviously didn't read the original post Shelyr... try and pay attention: if 1 recruit lives then they get 1 recruit, and lose one battle brother already lost (to the balck rage/red thirst/death oath)... if 2 survive, then they get 2. If all three survive, then they get three. If none survive then they get none and the batlle brother lives to test more recruits.

Oh man, I just realized that the marines the recruits are supposed to kill are black rage marines. Pro tip: black rage makes you even more impossible for a recruit to kill.

ph34r wrote:3 kids killing a space marine? Using in game rules and "rolls" to justify stupid fluff occurrences? This is ridiculous


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Connor McKane wrote:I am ing done with trying to pound some sense into you folks. You obviously didn't read the original post Shelyr... try and pay attention: if 1 recruit lives then they get 1 recruit, and lose one battle brother already lost (to the balck rage/red thirst/death oath)... if 2 survive, then they get 2. If all three survive, then they get three. If none survive then they get none and the batlle brother lives to test more recruits.

Oh man, I just realized that the marines the recruits are supposed to kill are black rage marines. Pro tip: black rage makes you even more impossible for a recruit to kill.

*shakes head sadly* Bless your little heart. It occurs to me that all you kids are so caught up in your desire for the Super-duper Space Marine to be impossible to kill that you are ignoring common sense, and you have no idea about war, or have probably ever been in a fight...

Where in this process is the "Invincibiliy node?"

Secondary Heart
Phase 1: This simplest and most self-sufficient of implants allows a Space Marine to survive his other heart being damaged or destroyed, and to survive in low oxygen environments. Not just a back-up, the secondary heart can boost the blood-flow around the Marine's body.1
Ossmodula
Phase 2: A small, tubular and complex organ, the ossmodula secretes hormones that both affect the ossification of the skeleton and encourage the forming bone growths to absorb ceramic-based chemicals that are laced into the Marine's diet.1 This heavily alters the way the Space Marine's bones grow and develop. Two years after this implant is first put in the subject's long bones will have increased in size (along with most other bones) and the rib cage will have been fused into a solid mass of bulletproof, interlocking plates.
Biscopea
Phase 3: This small, circular organ is inserted into the chest cavity and releases hormones that vastly increase muscle growth throughout the marine's body. It also serves to form the hormonal basis for many of the later implants.
Haemastamen
Phase 4: Implanted into the main circulatory system, this tiny implant not only increases the haemoglobin content of the subjects blood, making it more efficient at carrying oxygen around the body and making the subject's blood a bright red, it also serves to monitor and control the actions of the phase 2 and phase 3 implants.1
Larraman's Organ
Phase 5: A liver-shaped organ about the size of a golf-ball, this implant is placed within the chest cavity and connected to the circulatory system. It generates and controls 'Larraman cells' which are released into the blood stream if the recipient is wounded. They attach themselves to leucocytes in the blood and are carried to the site of the wound, where upon contact with air they form a near instant patch of scar tissue, sealing any wounds the Space Marine may suffer.
Catalepsean Node
Phase 6: Implanted into the back of the brain, this pea-sized organ influences the circadian rhythms of sleep and the body's response to sleep deprivation. If deprived of sleep, the catalepsean node cuts in. The node allows a Marine to sleep and remain awake at the same time by switching off areas of his brain sequentially. This process cannot replace sleep entirely, but increases the Marines survivability by allowing perception of the environment while resting1. This means that a Space Marine needs no more than 4 hours of sleep a day, and can potentially go for 2 weeks without any sleep at all.
Preomnor
Phase 7: This is essentially a pre-stomach that can neutralise otherwise poisonous or indigestible foods. No actual digestion takes place in the preomnor, as it acts as a decontamination chamber placed before the natural stomach in the body's system and can be isolated from the rest of the digestive tract in order to contain particularly troublesome intake.1
Omophagea
Phase 8: This implant allows a Space Marine to 'learn by eating'. It is situated in the spinal cord but is actually part of the brain. Four nerve bundles are implanted connecting the spine and the stomach wall. Able to 'read' or absorb genetic material consumed by the marine, the omophagea transmits the gained information to the Marine's brain as a set of memories or experiences. It is the presence of this organ which has led to the various flesh-eating and blood-drinking rituals for which the Astartes are famous, as well as giving names to chapters such as the Blood Drinkers and Flesh Tearers. Over time, mutations in this implant have given some chapters unnatural craving for blood or flesh.1
Multi-lung
Phase 9: This additional lung activates when a Space Marine needs to breathe in low-oxygen or poisoned atmospheres, and even water. The natural lungs are closed off by a sphincter muscle associated with the multi-lung and the implanted organ takes over breathing operations. It has highly efficient toxin dispersal systems.1
Occulobe
Phase 10: This implant sits at the base of the brain, and provides hormonal and genetic stimuli which enable a Marine's eyes to respond to optic-therapy. This in turn allows the Apothecaries to make adjustments to the growth patterns of the eye and the light-receptive retinal cells - the result being that Space Marines have far superior vision to normal humans, and can see in low-light conditions almost as well as in daylight.1
Lyman's Ear
Phase 11: Not only does this implant make a Space Marine immune from dizziness or motion sickness but also allows Space Marines to consciously filter out and enhance certain sounds. The Lyman's Ear completely replaces a Marine's original ear. It is externally indistinguishable from a normal human ear.
Sus-an Membrane
Phase 12: Initially implanted above the brain, this membrane eventually merges with the recipient's entire brain. Ineffective without follow-up chemical therapy and training, but with sufficient training a Space Marine can use this implant to enter a state of suspended animation, consciously or as an automatic reaction to extreme trauma, keeping the Marine alive for years, even if he has suffered otherwise mortal wounds. Only the appropriate chemical therapy or auto-suggestion can revive a Marine from this state. The longest recorded period spent in suspended animation was undertaken by Brother Silas Err of the Dark Angels, who was revived after 567 years.1
Melanochrome
Phase 13: This implant controls the amount of melanin in a Marine's skin. Exposure to high levels of sunlight will result in the Marine's skin darkening to compensate. It also protects the Marine from other forms of radiation.1
Oolitic Kidney
Phase 14: In conjunction with the secondary heart this implant allows a Space Marine to filter his blood very quickly, rendering him immune to most poisons. This action comes at a price, however, as this emergency detoxification usually renders the Marine unconscious while his blood is circulated at high speed. The organ's everyday function is to monitor the entire circulatory system and allow other organs to function effectively.1
Neuroglottis
Phase 15: This enhances a Space Marine's sense of taste to such a high degree that he can identify many common chemicals by taste alone. A Marine can even track down his target by taste.
Mucranoid
Phase 16: This implant allows a Space Marine to sweat a substance that coats the skin and offers resistance to extreme heat and cold and can even provide some protection for the marine in a vacuum. This can only be activated by outside treatment, and is common when Space Marines are expected to be fighting in vacuum.
Betcher's Gland
Phase 17: Consists of two identical glands, implanted either into the lower lip, alongside the salivary glands or into the hard palette. The gland works in a similar way to the poison gland of venomous reptiles by synthesizing and storing deadly poison, which the Marines themselves are immune to due to the gland's presence. This allows a Space Marine to spit a blinding contact poison. The poison is also corrosive and can even burn away strong metals given sufficient time.
Progenoids
Phase 18: There are two of these glands, one situated in the neck and the other within the chest cavity. These glands are vitally important and represent the future of the Chapter, as the only way new gene-seed can be produced is by reproducing it within the bodies of the Marines themselves. This is the implant's only purpose. The glands absorb genetic material from the other implanted organs. When they have matured each gland will have developed a single gene-seed corresponding to each of the zygotes which have been implanted into the Marine.
These take time (5 years in the first case, 10 in the latter)1 to mature into gene-seed. The gene-seed can then be extracted and used to create more Space Marines. See main article: Progenoids.
Black Carapace
Phase 19: The most distinctive implant, it resembles a film of black plastic that is implanted directly beneath the skin of the Marine's torso in sheets. It hardens on the outside and sends invasive neural bundles into the Marine's body. After the organ has matured the recipient is then fitted with neural sensors and interface points cut into the carapace's surface.1 This allows a Space Marine to interface directly with his Power Armour.

Where in this process is the Space Marine implanted with a organ that makes him impossible to kill?

I think I am just really feeding the trolls at this point.

not too sure about the background fluff,i cant see three kids however well trained taking out a full blooded space marine.I mean come on guys these are super human and have already survived the surgeries and training to become a space marine.
That aside i really like the colour scheme,chapter symbol and the converted marines in particular THE SANGUINOR,yes capitals i like it that much.
keep up the good work and remember its your army have it the way YOU want it.

shingouki wrote:not too sure about the background fluff,i cant see three kids however well trained taking out a full blooded space marine.I mean come on guys these are super human and have already survived the surgeries and training to become a space marine.
That aside i really like the colour scheme,chapter symbol and the converted marines in particular THE SANGUINOR,yes capitals i like it that much.
keep up the good work and remember its your army have it the way YOU want it.

Thanks for the input. I agree that 3 kids (14 year olds) would have a difficult time overcoming a full blooded space marine. Which is why it doesn't happen very often (as per the fluff) but every so often a group is either very lucky or very good, and so the cycle will continue. But remember that the aspirants are trained till they are 12 in combat, and then trained by Space Marines of the BoS cadre, specifically to kill space marines (Chaos Space Marines) but still space marines. So they know how to best kill a space marine, where to strike and such... and some space marines who participate in the blooding already wish for death.

*************************

To answer a previous post. Once you fasll to the Black Rage, you don't get better. Otherwise they would keep the Death Company alive to fight EVERY battle, no, if you fall to the Black Rage you just friggin lose it. All you care about it blood and killing. You lose all tactical knowledge. And since the blooding isn't a pit fight, these marines are EASIER to kill. AS per my fictional fluff, I just made up.

OR! BoS Space Marines who get the Black Rage develope a taste for Tea and Crumpets and the Aspiratns kill them while they are at tea. ID10T

Connor McKane wrote:Aha! You have to read the posts for it to make sense!

I got the gypsy part, the other part not so much... oh well i suppose.


For some reason this whole time I was assuming that the kids have stubbers/lasguns or something against an unarmored marine... if they can track him down I don't imagine he'd be too hard to put down. Its just tracking him that would be difficult. But yeah, thread's been making my head hurt so I'm prolly missing/have forgotten a couple of things.

I read every single post in this thread before posting, so I hardly think insulting me is justified.

I raise again the issue of your timeline. There is no way your chapter would make it 6000 years before they realized their recruitment method was failing them.

This is not a personal attack, this is constructive criticism to make your fluff more believable within the 40k universe. If you choose not to take the advice, that's fine, it's your fluff, and doesn't hurt me any. However, as it stands, it is not a chapter that I can find myself believing. If that's not a big deal to you, then disregard this post.

Cheers.

ph34r wrote:3 kids killing a space marine? Using in game rules and "rolls" to justify stupid fluff occurrences? This is ridiculous


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Connor McKane wrote:I am ing done with trying to pound some sense into you folks. You obviously didn't read the original post Shelyr... try and pay attention: if 1 recruit lives then they get 1 recruit, and lose one battle brother already lost (to the balck rage/red thirst/death oath)... if 2 survive, then they get 2. If all three survive, then they get three. If none survive then they get none and the batlle brother lives to test more recruits.

Oh man, I just realized that the marines the recruits are supposed to kill are black rage marines. Pro tip: black rage makes you even more impossible for a recruit to kill.

edited by modquisition Frazzled as being inappropriate. If you want to post like a twelve year old, do it somewhere else. Farewell friend, you'll always have a place amongst us. :(




Automatically Appended Next Post:

shealyr wrote:I read every single post in this thread before posting, so I hardly think insulting me is justified.

I raise again the issue of your timeline. There is no way your chapter would make it 6000 years before they realized their recruitment method was failing them.

This is not a personal attack, this is constructive criticism to make your fluff more believable within the 40k universe. If you choose not to take the advice, that's fine, it's your fluff, and doesn't hurt me any. However, as it stands, it is not a chapter that I can find myself believing. If that's not a big deal to you, then disregard this post.

Cheers.

I appologize for lumping you in with the rest. Reading your post again, my attack on you was unjustified. You do make a good point, but although you might not find it believeable, is it entirely possible. I just get riled up when confronted with an illogical argument, and people fail to see things that make perfect sense to ME.

So lets shake hands and part this thread as friend.

/shake hand

Oh, and your Sanguinor conversion is badass!