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Hello

There will be a pleasure to read your codex when I get home to my regular computer. Fun with new units and some new "history".

I have a Genestealer cult (only original figgs from the 80's and 90's) that I play with 2ED Tyranid codex. (building a rouge trader imperial guard, as the brotherhood of the cult)

Looking forward to coming home and download codex.

Sincerely taogoli

(Excuse my bad English, using a translation program.)

Some good ideas you've got here. Seems very in theme but decent at the same time. Quite a lot of other Cult codices I've read have the cult as quite underpowered.

The biggest problem with Genestealer Cults is that they don't really have anything that fits into the 'Elite' category except for Genestealers (as Hybrids aren't that elite compared to other forces).

Some things to consider / ideas:

In the Rogue Trader Genestealer force, the Cult could gain access to mutants and scum that had no genetic link to the Genestealers but followed their hatred for the planet's government. These were considered expendible by the cult leaders so coulbe be used as a large 'blob' unit with little ranged options (focusing mainly on combat). Perhaps give them bomb collars too (similar to the Hybrid drones you've written about).

Also in the Rogue Trader force, there was the 'Oracle' which was basically the Patriarch at the height of his power (just before the Hive Fleets arrive). Perhaps an upgrade could be available for the Patriarch, sacrificing speed and combat abilities for strong psyker abilities.

Another idea, how about 'Younger Patriarchs' - essentially Genestealers from the same generation as the Patriarch (or an early Purestrain breed). Tougher, multi-wound stealers.

The only other ideas are maybe force switching based upon HQ choices? A broodlord would be a Patriarch when it hits land with an 'Invasion Force' that could make all Genestealers Troops. A magus would be the cult when its grown a large foothold on the planet, making 4th Generation Hybrids troops?

To be fair though, its a pretty solid idea at the moment, though I'd maybe consider removing the 'Orders' system as Cults usually run the risk of being seen as Imperial Guard with a few Genestealers.

I used to play Genestealer Cult in small points tournaments back in the 2E days. Had a blast. This was one of the big things I think GW lost sight of in the transition to Fantasy In Space with 3rd Edition. All the great cult armies. If they'd done them right and given them good models, they'd have made a great alternative to those who would play armies like Imperial Guard.

One thing is though, I think the Broodlord and Patriarch entries should be combined. I know they are "technically" different, but really it's all but official that the Brood Lord is the current 40K generation version of the Patriarch. It's just that the Tyranid fluff doesn't currently include the Cults.

Expand out their Force Organization to make it possible to include Imperial Guard units if the army takes a specific command selection of a subverted PDF officer. Instead of the "military commander thrall", make him his own unit (and thus an HQ choice) with the requirement of a Magus (who is the human looking infiltrator that is controlling him) Then you have a more varied and flavorful army list. People can play psycho cultists, or subverted military, etc. Plus it also forces a choice on the cult player. Also makes it a bit closer to the GC list from 2nd Edition.

Okay, first playtest over, very successful. On the whole the Example Invasion Force list plays pretty well. I've written up notes to go in the new revision of the draft and am making the following changes based on posts here and what I found. I've also answered the suggestions below.

Roy Langa wrote:In the Rogue Trader Genestealer force, the Cult could gain access to mutants and scum that had no genetic link to the Genestealers but followed their hatred for the planet's government. These were considered expendible by the cult leaders so coulbe be used as a large 'blob' unit with little ranged options (focusing mainly on combat). Perhaps give them bomb collars too (similar to the Hybrid drones you've written about).

Yes I have all of the original publications and the Drones were my attempt to incorporate this idea into the army. I also have the "Lost and the Damned" list from Eye of Terror which details Mutants and stuff as well. I considered making use of a few of these ideas, but they would duplicate what is already covered by the Drones. Prior to the playtest, I thought these guys might be a bit overpowered, but they were perfectly fine.

That said, I do like the idea of a unit based on the old Familiar models. I've made a few using Ripper heads and tails, so I'm still looking at some kind of idea here. They just need a role in the army that isn't already covered.

Roy Langa wrote:
Also in the Rogue Trader force, there was the 'Oracle' which was basically the Patriarch at the height of his power (just before the Hive Fleets arrive). Perhaps an upgrade could be available for the Patriarch, sacrificing speed and combat abilities for strong psyker abilities.

Like this, great idea. I didn't want to have any of the Chaos stuff from the original list, but a "two powers a turn" upgrade would suit perfectly.

Roy Langa wrote:
Another idea, how about 'Younger Patriarchs' - essentially Genestealers from the same generation as the Patriarch (or an early Purestrain breed). Tougher, multi-wound stealers.

Nice idea, but actually I found you really don't need to increase the power of the Stealers in my playtest, plus it wouldn't fit with the backgroound written on the biological cycle of the Genestealer.

Roy Langa wrote:
The only other ideas are maybe force switching based upon HQ choices? A broodlord would be a Patriarch when it hits land with an 'Invasion Force' that could make all Genestealers Troops. A magus would be the cult when its grown a large foothold on the planet, making 4th Generation Hybrids troops?

Not keen I'm afraid, sorry. The Craftworld Eldar codex of years ago played around with the force selection like this. I think the balance switch the retinue stuff offers, themes the army just fine.

Roy Langa wrote:
To be fair though, its a pretty solid idea at the moment, though I'd maybe consider removing the 'Orders' system as Cults usually run the risk of being seen as Imperial Guard with a few Genestealers.

Good call. This is now gone.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:One thing is though, I think the Broodlord and Patriarch entries should be combined. I know they are "technically" different, but really it's all but official that the Brood Lord is the current 40K generation version of the Patriarch. It's just that the Tyranid fluff doesn't currently include the Cults.

I kind of agree with you on this, but I'm not combining them. The reason is that I think it would create one very clunky listing the HQ section and the choice of Invasion Force or Coven is determined by the Broodlord or Patriarch pick. Of course you can also take both, which has its own advantage.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Expand out their Force Organization to make it possible to include Imperial Guard units if the army takes a specific command selection of a subverted PDF officer. Instead of the "military commander thrall", make him his own unit (and thus an HQ choice) with the requirement of a Magus (who is the human looking infiltrator that is controlling him) Then you have a more varied and flavorful army list. People can play psycho cultists, or subverted military, etc. Plus it also forces a choice on the cult player. Also makes it a bit closer to the GC list from 2nd Edition.

Again, I kind of agree. In the revision we have a new "Chosen Thrall" option, which will provide some unlocks, but I don't want the army to become too "IG + Stealers" as that may open up the list but it locks the modelling into a specific set of plastics. Plus, I really like the retinue element as it means you have to construct your force along certain lines to get all the options. The IG options in the list are intentionally a little less powerful than the IG codex and actually as I found last night, they play really well.

---

Things I've changed from the playtest.

Maelignaci. These little critters are absolutely devastating at 12 points per model and perhaps too cheap. I've upped them to 16 points per model as the Hit and Run ability is utterly terrifying when the drop in alongside a pack of Stealers. The Maelignaci are a smaller unit, but the ability to pick and choose using Hit and Run is frighteningly good.

Added a few more weapon options to the Transport Vehicles.

Bio staff properly listed.

---

Things I'm looking at:

Magus Coven option.

New lesser animal/hybrid (see above comment on Familiars)

---

New draft up soon as I've added all the extra stuff. Thank you so much for the suggestions, really really appreciated and helpful whether they go in or not. Any that do, well, drop me a message with your details and I'll add you to the credits.

Okay here's the new draft. Nearly finished. I could really do with a more pictures of models as mine aren't the best. I could also do with some artwork and fiction in some of the gaps. Any submissions welcome and credited.

http://www.eoslrp.com/Files/Codexgenestealersv08.pdf

EDIT - fixed link.

I'm interested to see your changes, but your link doesn't work for me...

I played a GS cult as a fun army in 2nd, 3rd (using LatD rules) & 4th (using Tim Huckleberry's rules). I honestly like what you're doing here for the most part. One of the few things I take issue w/ is the bikers having the bolters on them like SM bikes. This is because per fluff bolters should be very expensive, hard to get & hard to maintain as represented in Necromunda. I also feel that it helps to further distinguish the cult as it's own army w/ its own vehicles rather than just "borrowing" from other races in such a case. Another thought is to make the chimera as an available vehicle in limited numbers w/ military advisors taken as like the leman russ & bassie. This is because the chimera is such a widely available vehicle it would be much easier to procure than a russ or bassie & it's a fun model to build & convert as GS cult "limo".

I'm also a little confused on the technicals entry. So it's a squadron that can transport up to 12 models total between the 3 vehicles?. That seems like in terms of rules it could get complicated if one of them gets immobilized & thus as part of a squadron gets left behind, but by that token that requires the embarked models to be left behind & thus lost or just out of coherency? And what happens then if they're out of coherency when the other vehicles passengers disembark? Do they have to move back toward the stragglers? Maybe this could be corrected by simply making a technical a transport 5 so a small squad can be completely embarked on one? And since they're so light, why not make them fast vehicles to increase the likelihood that they'll make it to their destination intact?

Have you considered making adrenal glands, toxin sacs, scything talons, rending claws etc as upgrades to hybrids to help give that stealer/nid edge to them?

Just some thoughts there. BTW, I love the abomini as it reminds me of the movie Blade where the vamps throw the chick to the deranged mutated vamp that used to be her co-worker. It would also allow some fun conversions using a carnifex & chaos spawn models.

Red_Starrise wrote:I played a GS cult as a fun army in 2nd, 3rd (using LatD rules) & 4th (using Tim Huckleberry's rules). I honestly like what you're doing here for the most part. One of the few things I take issue w/ is the bikers having the bolters on them like SM bikes. This is because per fluff bolters should be very expensive, hard to get & hard to maintain as represented in Necromunda.

Totally accept your point here. I'm looking at a downgrade to shotguns or autoguns as a default with the Bolter as an upgrade. I'll take an indepth refresher read on Necromunda and make some changes.

Red_Starrise wrote:
I also feel that it helps to further distinguish the cult as it's own army w/ its own vehicles rather than just "borrowing" from other races in such a case. Another thought is to make the chimera as an available vehicle in limited numbers w/ military advisors taken as like the leman russ & bassie. This is because the chimera is such a widely available vehicle it would be much easier to procure than a russ or bassie & it's a fun model to build & convert as GS cult "limo".

Am not so keen on the Chimera as a transport choice as its very IG. However, I've not tried to convert one, so I'd be interested to see how they might work. There are some excellent resin models that can be used, like Old Crow and Fenris Games APCs. I have some of these and will be adding pics of them in the list.

Red_Starrise wrote:
I'm also a little confused on the technicals entry. So it's a squadron that can transport up to 12 models total between the 3 vehicles?. That seems like in terms of rules it could get complicated if one of them gets immobilized & thus as part of a squadron gets left behind, but by that token that requires the embarked models to be left behind & thus lost or just out of coherency? And what happens then if they're out of coherency when the other vehicles passengers disembark? Do they have to move back toward the stragglers? Maybe this could be corrected by simply making a technical a transport 5 so a small squad can be completely embarked on one? And since they're so light, why not make them fast vehicles to increase the likelihood that they'll make it to their destination intact?

The technicals entry is a mess. I need to revise it. I'll look at these ideas alongside the existing profile.

Red_Starrise wrote:
Have you considered making adrenal glands, toxin sacs, scything talons, rending claws etc as upgrades to hybrids to help give that stealer/nid edge to them?

With Adrenals and Toxins, the 1st and 2nd Gens already have these, the 3rd and 4ths can take them if the Rogue Scientist is purchased, thereby synthesizing the upgrade, as can Thralls and Brethren at this stage. I'll consider Rending claws at 3/4th gen, but really they already have a clear role in the army with the firearm choices given. The Primaci, Purificati and Drones are absolutely devastating with the abilities they have if they can get into position.

Red_Starrise wrote:
Just some thoughts there. BTW, I love the abomini as it reminds me of the movie Blade where the vamps throw the chick to the deranged mutated vamp that used to be her co-worker. It would also allow some fun conversions using a carnifex & chaos spawn models.

Well I'd be interested on more ideas on these as producing an example model of the Abomini has me stumped at the moment.

Looking good!
Here's a few points from my read through:

There seems to be too many psychic powers available, maybe cut hammerhand and warp lance (as it seems really powerful). I like the addition of Catalyst though.

I like the Linked Mind special rule, it seems very unique but fitting at the same time.

Coven Throne, I'd change slightly. Maybe force enemy psykers to roll an extra D6 and pick the highest or allies roll an extra D6 and pick the lowest.

The Patriarch isn't as tough as the Broodlord, if anything, I'd say he'd be tougher (as he's older and bloated) but not frail (as Genestealers are practically immortal aren't they?)

Allow Thralls or Bretheren to take larger squads (Bretheren can only add 1, perhaps this is a typo?).

But these are all just suggestions anyway, what you've currently got seems decent and balanced

Roy Langa wrote:Looking good!

Yep getting there. I reckon its 85%.

Roy Langa wrote:
Here's a few points from my read through:

There seems to be too many psychic powers available, maybe cut hammerhand and warp lance (as it seems really powerful). I like the addition of Catalyst though.

Okay, I'll look at this. Hammerhand is specifically for the Magus, but if its superfluous, then it'll need a trim. Warp Lance? I'm very conscious of the limited number of anti tank weapons the list has, so removign them is always a sensitive discussion. However, I'll definately look through it again and make a call.

Roy Langa wrote:
I like the Linked Mind special rule, it seems very unique but fitting at the same time.

Great. I'm aware loads of player dexes have special rules. I really want to minimise on them. I think this one fulfilled a need, particularly with the Patriarch needing to be involved in things despite the need to nest.

Roy Langa wrote:
Coven Throne, I'd change slightly. Maybe force enemy psykers to roll an extra D6 and pick the highest or allies roll an extra D6 and pick the lowest.

Good call there. I like this a lot.

Roy Langa wrote:
The Patriarch isn't as tough as the Broodlord, if anything, I'd say he'd be tougher (as he's older and bloated) but not frail (as Genestealers are practically immortal aren't they?)

I'll revise his stat line up slightly in the next version, but not much. Perhaps an extra wound and toughness point. But I don't want to get into Hive Tyrant territory.

Roy Langa wrote:

Allow Thralls or Bretheren to take larger squads (Bretheren can only add 1, perhaps this is a typo?).

It is a typo.

Roy Langa wrote:
But these are all just suggestions anyway, what you've currently got seems decent and balanced

Cheers matey, certainly wouldn't be there without the help from this thread and generous contributions of people's time, artwork (you'll see soon) and ideas. I think we'll have a real winner once its done.

Allen Stroud wrote:Since having our Christmas 40k game (as we always do), I've been looking back at the old Warhammer 40k books that I have and have started modelling and a new Genestealer Cult Army. I've also been working on a codex for them for 5th edition. I've read through most of the threads on here and other forums, showing their modelling ideas and the rules that they elected to write. What I was wondering was, is there anyone else out there still interested in this forgotten bit of 40k?

I've been trying to make sure the background is carefully researched to fit into the current edition of the game, as well as giving the army its own theme, rather than just being a Guard army with add ons. Hopefully if I can finish the models and the list, it might open up some ideas for other privateer and cult armies in the 40k 'verse.

and i thought that they were allready pure fluff

Allen Stroud wrote:Since having our Christmas 40k game (as we always do), I've been looking back at the old Warhammer 40k books that I have and have started modelling and a new Genestealer Cult Army. I've also been working on a codex for them for 5th edition. I've read through most of the threads on here and other forums, showing their modelling ideas and the rules that they elected to write. What I was wondering was, is there anyone else out there still interested in this forgotten bit of 40k?

I've been trying to make sure the background is carefully researched to fit into the current edition of the game, as well as giving the army its own theme, rather than just being a Guard army with add ons. Hopefully if I can finish the models and the list, it might open up some ideas for other privateer and cult armies in the 40k 'verse.

It was one of my first and favorite armies when I started playing 40K back in 2nd edition. They are one of the coolest parts of the 40k fluff/old canon imho.

I still have a box of like 50 of the OOP stealers and the Patriarch that I have been holding on to in the hopes that they might one day get a new official codex/list and I woud have an excuse to build the cult again and send forth my broods...
o
I think the cult armies (chaos cultists and genestealer cults) are parts of the 40K settiing that GW dropped the ball on. They are modeler's/converter's armies and would generate tons of model sales if given a decent shake. But then GW would rather redo space marin codexes over and over...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Allen Stroud wrote:That's great news folks. I've done quite a lot on the first draft already (37 pages without the modelling advice). Just tidying up some points costs and doing pictures for models as I make them.

What I'd like to do is get a draft copy done, then post it up for comments. If people are happy to do that. I'm trying to make it look as much like an official codex as possible with the artwork and typefacing, so any thoughts once I start posting this would be really appreciated. I'm also ransacking my brain and links on the web to ensure I have stuck to the 40k canon as much as possible.

To give you a preview, here's the draft army list choices at the moment.

HQ - 0-1 Patriarch, 0-1 Broodlord, 0-1 Magus
Elites - Genestealer Broods, Ymgarl Genestealers, Primacii (4th generation Hybrids).
Troops - Furori (2nd Generation Hybrids), Thralls, Brethren.
Fast Attack - Maelinagi (1st generation hybrids), Brethren Bikers, ATV Patrols, Transport Shuttle.
Heavy Support - Purificati (3rd generation hybrids), Drone Squads, Leman Russ, Basilisk, Abomini.
Transport - Civilian Transports.

Must have coven limos.