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brainscan wrote:My local gw store made it very clear it's a codex only choice.

I am fortunate the store I go to does not have that rule.

Liam0404, that might be a workable idea. I may build my model with this in mind. There should be no problem.

I think this is actually a very likely rumour, though when we will see it realised is another thing entirely.

Purely from a financial point of view, GW would be stupid not to open up the Stormraven to all Marine armies because it would encourage more purchases. Plus it's not like the Stormraven doesnt fit in with the general lore of pretty much all other Space Marine chapters. I am aware some Chapters favour this troop over that troop etc, but they all have to get on to the battlefield somehow!

I would expect them to release the model for BA, get the Grey Knights out with their own version of it, then open them up to everyone sometime later this year in the FAQs.

untis made available via a specific codex are only for that codex, regardless of "well its easy to make a space marine "x" chapter". you are not normally allowed to use multiple codex, just because you want to use the newest shiney bit gw says you need. stating the simalarity between marine chapters as a reason to do this is simply wrong. if they were the same, they would all use the same book, and there would not be a seperate codex. plain and simple. its exactly if the eldar got craftworld specfifc codex, units unique to a craftworld are not avaliable to another. same for chaos factions. dark eldar kabals, etc.

the plain and simple of it right now is:
strmraven is ONLY for blood angles and possibly GK. no other chapter can use it, unless you are playing apoc or have opponents consent.

DarthSpader is correct.

The wonderful advantage SM players get is an incredible variety of codices and special rules which they can switch between with minor modeling work. The (sort-of) downside is that you might need to switch codices to use a unique bit of kit or unit from a new SM book if you just NEED to use the cool new thing.

While obviously anyone can use any unit from anywhere (or make stuff up) if their opponent consents, please bear in mind that the YMDC forum is about the actual rules of the game. Which are that each army selects its units from a single codex, unless otherwise specified by GW.

castellan wrote:

brainscan wrote:My local gw store made it very clear it's a codex only choice.

I am fortunate the store I go to does not have that rule.

Liam0404, that might be a workable idea. I may build my model with this in mind. There should be no problem.

Where do you play, I love to feild Ocks in Land Raiders.

So if i got a Storm Raven and said before game "That's actually a crusader, I just like that model", what would your opinion on that be?

In a "just for kicks, let's screw around" game, I'd say "Go ahead and play it as a Storm Raven; I'll also be using [fill in the blank] unit from another codex, while we're at it." I wouldn't pick something weird or broken; maybe just use a unit of actual daemons from the Daemons codex with my Chaos Space Marines, insteaf of my own generic lesser daemons.

In a competitive, by-the-book, league or tournament game, I would not accept a proxy. A Stormraven has a very different profile from a Crusader, and while its size/shape is largely to your disadvantage as the user, it would not be a sufficiently-similar substitute for a Crusader without extensive modeling modifications.

liam0404 wrote:So if i got a Storm Raven and said before game "That's actually a crusader, I just like that model", what would your opinion on that be?

I'd say the techs mussed up and put wing on your Crusader.

As pointed out already by others, Count As is not the same as using a unit from a different Codex.

Normally i'd agree, but the normal basis of proxying is because you normally can't afford the model or something else like that. I could buy another crusader rather than a Storm Raven, but i'd like a "different" model to be a centrepiece to the army.

liam0404 wrote:Normally i'd agree, but the normal basis of proxying is because you normally can't afford the model or something else like that. I could buy another crusader rather than a Storm Raven, but i'd like a "different" model to be a centrepiece to the army.

I'm not worried about cost. More about proper weapons and profile on the battlefield. Different models with widely-varying profiles lead to different tactical impacts on the table. For example, while you wouldn't be able to hide infantry behind your SR-pattern LR, you also could move up other units directly behind it and still have them shoot. And your LR's guns being 4" or more higher off the table will impact what cover saves my units can get against them.

If we try just pretending it has the same shape and presence as the LR, we're inevitably going to have a disagreement somewhere.

Mannahnin wrote: For example, while you wouldn't be able to hide infantry behind your SR-pattern LR, you also could move up other units directly behind it and still have them shoot. And your LR's guns being 4" or more higher off the table will impact what cover saves my units can get against them.

Why would it be on a flight base if he is playing it as a ground vechile, the SR isn't 4" taller the the LR is it?

Noir wrote:

Mannahnin wrote: For example, while you wouldn't be able to hide infantry behind your SR-pattern LR, you also could move up other units directly behind it and still have them shoot. And your LR's guns being 4" or more higher off the table will impact what cover saves my units can get against them.

Why would it be on a flight base if he is playing it as a ground vechile, the SR isn't 4" taller the the LR is it?

If he's not mounting it on the flight base, doesn't that rather defeat the purpose of fielding the SR for looks? He's going to play a model with wings crawling along the ground?

Mannahnin wrote:

Noir wrote:

Mannahnin wrote: For example, while you wouldn't be able to hide infantry behind your SR-pattern LR, you also could move up other units directly behind it and still have them shoot. And your LR's guns being 4" or more higher off the table will impact what cover saves my units can get against them.

Why would it be on a flight base if he is playing it as a ground vechile, the SR isn't 4" taller the the LR is it?

If he's not mounting it on the flight base, doesn't that rather defeat the purpose of fielding the SR for looks? He's going to play a model with wings crawling along the ground?

You really think a clear stick is that important to the SR looks. But, wouldn't your problems with using it as a count as, not be there if it was on the ground.

I do think a flying model or skimmer looks a lot better on its stand, yes. A skimmer on the ground looks like it's been shot down.

The problems of using a SR as a proxy for a LR would definitely be reduced if it was on the ground, but not eliminated. The two vehicles still have different profiles and weapon layouts, which impact the game.

This is off topic, but I suddenly have the image of Blood Angel players either sticking the Storm Raven wings onto Land Raiders, or sticking tracks onto Storm Ravens to represent their deepstriking Land Raiders.

I want the rules for the Storm Raven on a PDF. That would make everything so much more simpler.

I have some great news!
At my wonderful FLGS with a store owners "House Rule" the Stormraven will be available to Space Marines, Dark Angels, and Black Templars. I forgot to ask about Chaos Space Marines but I am sure it will be ok.
Noir, bring on your Land Raider Orks! I am sure I can come up with something nasty maybe something like a Vortex Grenade. Oh, after the beating I will get will you allow me to collect my gene seed?
I see no problem using the Stormraven as a Land Raider. If it is my opponents model he can do what he wants with it. If needed, I'll "House Rule" him an ok.
If all the Space Marine players not just the Blood Angels want Stormravens we can have them.
If official events don't allow this then don't use for instance a Stormraven in a Black Templar List.

Castellan, pretty much that entire post was off topic for this forum, as it has nothing to do with the existing rules of 40k. House rules fit better in the Proposed Rules forum.

Anyway, back OT.

I'm not trying to cause rule controversies or anything - it's nothing more than an excuse to field a cool looking model. And there are SOME similarities between the raven ad crusader, hurricane bolters, assault cannons etc...

Mannahnin wrote:Castellan, pretty much that entire post was off topic for this forum, as it has nothing to do with the existing rules of 40k. House rules fit better in the Proposed Rules forum.

I apologize. I was happy about my being able to use a Stormraven and I got carried away.

I'm happy for you too! It's cool when your local crowd/store is flexible and everyone's on the same page. I apologize if I came off as harsh.

liam0404 wrote:Anyway, back OT.

I'm not trying to cause rule controversies or anything - it's nothing more than an excuse to field a cool looking model. And there are SOME similarities between the raven ad crusader, hurricane bolters, assault cannons etc...

As long as the basic dimensions are similar I doubt many people will give you too big a problem. Hel, I'd even let you use the weapon arcs as modeled on the SR. But... Cool looks or not, trying to move a model with a wingspan that's probably about the same as a Valkyrie across your average table is going to suck. And I'd have to agree that an airplane taxing across the battlefield is going to look kind of...

If all Space Marine Chapters share technology so widely, where are my fast vehicles and deepstriking Land Raiders? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Alphapod wrote:If all Space Marine Chapters share technology so widely, where are my fast vehicles and deepstriking Land Raiders? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Aren't the Blood Angels in trouble with the AdMech for refusing to share their technology?

Mannahnin wrote:I'm happy for you too! It's cool when your local crowd/store is flexible and everyone's on the same page. I apologize if I came off as harsh.

It's ok.
I have a thick skin.

I guarantee that next marine codex around they'll all have them.

Then we get to deal with ironclads being dropped into position by gunships, which will liket have armour and rules like a fast Monolith by then..

sigh

I really don't want to hate the marines. I like te fluff and the look, but the marines getting all the toys is getting old..