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There is a ruin base that has two buildings on it, and a clear space in the middle, if I can get a clear view between the buildings to the majority of a unit on the other side

Not entirely true - if the entire base is a "ruin", i.e. area terrain, then you would be firing between two elements of area terrain and would give a cover save.

If that's not the quite the scenario you were after, sorry

page 22 should make this a non issue.

if a tournament is being run, perhaps they have a different set of house rules, but i think a GW tournament would have no issue.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

There is a ruin base that has two buildings on it, and a clear space in the middle, if I can get a clear view between the buildings to the majority of a unit on the other side

Not entirely true - if the entire base is a "ruin", i.e. area terrain, then you would be firing between two elements of area terrain and would give a cover save.

If that's not the quite the scenario you were after, sorry

Actually you are right there and I withdraw that statement, however, if my model is tall enough or otherwise elevated such that I can clearly see opposing models over intervening area terrain (rather than between the two elements), they will not get a cover save simply by virtue of the terrain existing between the two units.

Thanks for the correction on shooting out of area terrain, guys!

Aldarionn, excellent post, and I agree with 95% of it, except this bit:

Aldarionn wrote:Another common misconception is that a unit gets cover from an opponent if that opponent is firing between the elements of area terrain. This is only partially correct. The unit receives cover only if the terrain obscures them from view in some way. There is a ruin base that has two buildings on it, and a clear space in the middle, if I can get a clear view between the buildings to the majority of a unit on the other side, they are denied a cover save.

Page 22 clearly specifies that if you're tracing LOS between to elements of a piece of area terrain, the target is in cover "even if completely visible to the firer".

The time you negate it is if you're able to draw LOS completely OVER, rather than between, the elements; as provided in the next sentence on page 22, and in the passage you mentioned on page 21.

Mannahnin wrote:Thanks for the correction on shooting out of area terrain, guys!

Aldarionn, excellent post, and I agree with 95% of it, except this bit:

Aldarionn wrote:Another common misconception is that a unit gets cover from an opponent if that opponent is firing between the elements of area terrain. This is only partially correct. The unit receives cover only if the terrain obscures them from view in some way. There is a ruin base that has two buildings on it, and a clear space in the middle, if I can get a clear view between the buildings to the majority of a unit on the other side, they are denied a cover save.

Page 22 clearly specifies that if you're tracing LOS between to elements of a piece of area terrain, the target is in cover "even if completely visible to the firer".

The time you negate it is if you're able to draw LOS completely OVER, rather than between, the elements; as provided in the next sentence on page 22, and in the passage you mentioned on page 21.

Yeah I corrected that in the above post

If it were me, I'd take a look from your models' eyes views and if any Kroot quills, hands, arms etc. obscured/occluded even the SLIGHTEST portion of one of my models' heads/arms/torso/legs (on a firer to firer basis) I would claim a cover save of 5+. Of course I would expect you to do the same, thus dragging the game down and slowing its progress. Does no one concede to the 5+ cover save? Ever?

And I would laugh at you and say no, sorry, no cover commissar, because the rules pretty clearly state that at least half of the models in a unit have to be in cover to confer a cover save. You don't get to have a cover save by keeping 1/10 marines behind a wall.

Yes...half the models in a unit must be in cover yadda etc. It does not say half of each model. So, obscure even one part (head, arm, body, leg) of five out of ten, and I'm claiming a 5+ cover save.

@ Darkjediben: "You don't get to have a cover save by keeping 1/10 marines behind a wall." Your are, of course, implying 1 out of 10 Marines with your fraction, and would be correct in the assumption that THAT unit would not receive a cover save. However...

Pg. 21 of the BRB: When are models in Cover?- "When any part of the target model's body (head, arms, torso, legs; as per pg. 16) is obscured from the point of view of the firer, the target model is in cover."

Pg. 21 of the BRB: Intervening models- "If the target is partially hidden from view by other models, it receives a 4+ cover save in the same way as if it were behind terrain."

Now, sincerely, would you concede to a 5+ cover save?