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As a 7 year bug player, let me tell you what I DON'T fear from marine lists:

Terminators

Snipers

Lone speeders

Vindicators

Here's the reason I don't fear these:

One of my lists drops almost everything out of the sky and outflanks/infiltrates. I have trygons, genestealers, zoanthropes in pods, deathgaunts in pods, hormagaunts in pods, and fast attack units like raveners and gargoyles. I use hive guard of course (because they're really the only shooting that reliably does anything) and a tervigon for either spawning or FNP granting.

Devastators in the back? Thunderfire in back? Lootas in back? Whirlwind in back? Either the devilgaunts or the trygon will make it disappear. Genestealers from the flanks are what I use to countercharge.

With threats coming from every angle there's no way you can take it all out. Everything is upgraded or able to do something to vehicles so whatever's left will be hitting armour.

Here's what I do fear:
- Power weapons squads
- Land raiders, and multiple speeders
- Flamers

Small squads of anything don't make it against me because I make sure that every unit has the ability to put out massive numbers of attacks or ignore armour. I almost always take 30 genestealers which makes marine players very nervous.

With them reliably outflanking on turn 2 it means I gain a measure of control. In part I get to determine where you move and I always have counter assault units.

With me being in your face by turn 2 it forces you to deal with a lot at one time and what I rely on is for people to lose concentration and split their fire between several units. This cripples a few but typically doesn't kill them completely. That's all I need because on the charge I can make up the points due to the low points and multiple bodies.

Just remember this, for every marine that dies the squad is that much less effective. For every genestealer that dies there's still 29 more that can rend you and negate that 3+. And you can be sure that I'm not letting them get into combat with terminators.

Sort of like ork mobs in that regard...

Granted, not all Nid players will have the resources to field a drop pod assault, but it does bring up some interesting points.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Devastators in the back? Thunderfire in back? Lootas in back? Whirlwind in back? Either the devilgaunts or the trygon will make it disappear. Genestealers from the flanks are what I use to countercharge.

Thats fine by me, if you use your massive blob of Genestealers to take out my whirlwind, its awesome because by that time it would have made up its points and then some. And while you use your blob to take out my 85 point whirlwind, my honorguard with chapter master will be cracking down on you

I hope you know that 'massive blob' you describe is 10 of them.

I've gotten out of the habit of fielding large units of them... It just doesn't seem to work out most of the time.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gitsplitta wrote:Sort of like ork mobs in that regard...

Granted, not all Nid players will have the resources to field a drop pod assault, but it does bring up some interesting points.

Well the nice thing about our drop list is that all you need is a styrofoam egg and some sort of base for it. That's it! Put whatever you want inside of it, get a hive tyrant with hive commander (or the swarmlord) and have fun. You don't need trygons, I just like the models a lot so I use one. Everyone has genestealers, so now you can outflank them. You have gaunts, warriors, or something that can stand in for a zoanthrope so put that inside the pod and watch people figure out what to kill first.

The #1 rule of bugs is this: EVERYTHING is expendable. Have multiples and it'll be very difficult for anyone to counter what you have if the list is coherent and filled with redundancy redundancy.

And indeed, it's exactly like orks. The only difference is that you have to be a lot more strategic because T3 or multiwound with T4 is a the combination that makes us fragile. Orks are much more forgiving because T4 means there will be a lot of bolter fire you won't be taking saves/casualties from.

Thanks, my OTHER son is just starting a Nid army so actually all the advice on this thread has been *very* enlightening...

No problem at all. If you want any advice on what to buy I'd be glad to help on that front too. I did it all the hard way so I can give some good advice on how to make a bug army affordable, coherent, and very fun.

For me, versus a running (no drop or airborne 'nid army) then scout snipers are a steal. The BS is low so max out numbers, Telion is awesome, eye of vengeance (for killing those Zanothorpes!) the Hellfire capability of the HB is good too. How about PW + Combi-Flamer for your Sgts's or Lightning Claw and Storm bolter? Expensive but puts the hurt out, Jump pack infantry with a Chaplain attached (lots of PW!?)

Versus 'nids, STERNGUARD love it and just lap it up (remember they can have 2 Heavy Flamers and 2A as well and all can carry a Combi weapon and the rest get the ammo choices all round 'nid killing awesomeness).

Bikers can be good, Captain on a Bike with Relic blade? T5 and a high strength modifier = pretty damn good!..

@Grunt: Thanks! So as not to de-rail the thread completely... if you look in my sig there's a link to "A boy and his bug collection"... that's the thread from my son's Nids. Perhaps you can stop buy & check it out. We've got 20 stealers, 7 warriors + prime, 3 zoeys and some rippers painted up. Are working on our first monsterous creature (trygon). We have the stuff for another trygon/malwoc, tervigon w/ gants, 3x hive guard, gargoyles and a Parasite of Mortex looking thing. Oh, and every ripper I can beg, borrow or steal.

Back OT...

Thanks mwnciboo. The jump pack chaplain is actually something I wanted to do in my own army to run with my vanguard... just haven't been able to paint them yet (other priorities). I'm sure we could come up with something for him though.

I'm glad to help! I took a peak at the P&M blog and it looks like you have a very good start for a balanced list. Here are a few list types to consider with where you want to go next:

Horde: 60+ gaunts, 2 tervigons, warriors, venomthropes for cover, genestealers, hive guard... March up the field laying down fire with hive guard, gaunt/warrior fire, genestealers take up the flanks.

Fast attack: 40+ gargoyles, winged warriors, winged tyrant, raveners, trygons... Alpha strike with small guys to set up for the big ones on turn 2 & 3.

Elite: lictors, zoans, tyrants, carnifexes, trygons, hive guard... Almost like eldar in that everything has one specific target it must take out. Not very competitive but it's a great place to showcase well painted/converted models.

Deep Striking: zoans in pods, outflanking/infiltrating genestealers, hormagaunts in pods, gaunts with devourers in pods, winged warriors, trygons... There's 1 tyrant with maybe hive guard and a tervigon on the board. EVERYTHING else hopefully comes in on turn 2 or 3.

Do any of these lists sound interesting? If so tell me which and why and it'll be pretty easy to set things up and get you moving.