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Please, I was trying to make a joke not start a ST thread. There are plenty of those already. The ogryns will get mad at you for taking away their limelight.

I'd like to note, however, that it's unfair to compare a ogryn squad with a vendetta. It's like comparing a mortar HWS with a melta PCS. They really don't do the same thing, despite costing the same.

As many will say: IMPERIAL GUARDSMEN DO IT BETTER!!!

Trickstick wrote:Well this thread is about ogryns, so I'll not hijack it with my usual "stormtroopers are awesome" comments.

But... Storm Troopers are awesome!

Ogryns are only worth taking if you have them in a Chimera, and with at least 2 other (friendly) Chimera's on the board, IMO.

Pretty much, guardsmen are one of the most efficient and economical resources a guard player has at his disposal. You know the difference between guardsmen and ogryn?


Gurdsmen dont care if a str 10 ap1 blast covers 10 dudes. They actually LAUGH when it covers 10 dudes! I mean, what a waste of a str 10 ap 1 blast! You ARE firing at an IG army here!

Ogryn are, yes, condensed guardsmen. But they are just that slight bit over costed. Take 10 points per model off, you would see them in every army. They are not a tech-priest bad unit, but guardsmen do it better

Personally though? In super friendly games I think they are quite acceptable to use. But I wouldnt dream of seeing them used in a tournament.

I quite often run Ogryns and they've never let me down. My opponents don't like them at all. To me they make a great diversion, one that the enemy can't ignore, and thus they can be used to force my opponent's moves.

I generally chuck them out on a flank (not too far out though, they have to be able to see action when/if their ride blows up) and send them towards the enemy firebase - now the enemy has to chose between using his firebase to shoot the stuff he wants to shoot (like my chimeras or hws or whatever) or stopping these Ogryns before they punch his face in. No other guard unit can be sent on these sorts of shenanigans, and what's more, the ogryns will probably make it!

I've paraphrased an old piece of fluff that I always keep in mind when I use Ogryns. 10 points if you can name the source!

"Let's try a different approach...let's do something irrational and confusing, see how they cope. Something they've never seen before, something they can't anticipate." The officer started to scratch a crude map on the wall with his knife. "If we get them all looking this way by doing something they won't believe, then there's a chance that we can smash a fast column through their lines here."

Rotch started to look worried. "But sir" he protested, "what have we got that can get even halfway to that point without being shot to the warp and back?" Fleyitch ginned.
"Ogryns. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence."

In the few games I've faced them my opponent has failed to keep them away from my power weapons... So I feel my opinion of their merits is some-what coloured.

Ogryn Smush.

Ogryns don't fear str 4 power weapons. Their greatest asset is their T5. Not their 5+ save.

Right.

A tac squad unloading with bolters at double-tap can easily kill 7 guardsmen. Against ogryn, those same attacks kill about one ogryn, the survivors of which then beats them in the face with a bunch of furiously charging ripper guns.

Yes, ogryn are vulnerable to certain things that regular guardsmen are not (like railguns, for example), but they're also less vulnerable against way more things than they're more vulnerable against.

Myself and nobody I personally know runs them due to their unjustified points cost.

Bottom line, you can better spend the points elsewhere.

So I can justify running them at lower points as there is less that can deal with them. I would not run them at 2500 but I would run them at 1500 lol. Sounds like point cost has nothing to do it with it. I take them for what they can do that no other unit in my codex can do and that is dish it out as much as it can take it on the CC side.

Let's be realistic, if enemy vindicators or rail guns are hitting my ogs instead or my armour, I'm cheering. Plus it's easy to space ogs out so that a blast won't get many hits.

It's not like there's an abundance str 10 stuff out there anyway, besides DCCW. I've had ogs beat up kanz too

wouldnt it be difficult to keep the lord comm or yarrick alive when in CC? since they are independant characters, arent they forced to move into base contact with the enemy? the enemy will surely focus on these characters in order to exploit the 7 leadership of ogyns. what is a good tactic in keeping these independant characters alive during CC? can only the enemies that are touching his base focus on him?

That is the reason I havent ran a commisar with them.

Ogryns are way to expsensive my TWC laugh them off

Vincent305 wrote:wouldnt it be difficult to keep the lord comm or yarrick alive when in CC? since they are independant characters, arent they forced to move into base contact with the enemy? the enemy will surely focus on these characters in order to exploit the 7 leadership of ogyns. what is a good tactic in keeping these independant characters alive during CC? can only the enemies that are touching his base focus on him?

Won't the lord's aura of discipline work if he's not in the fight?
I mean keeping him in the chim while the brutes charge out sounds quite clever then.

rovian wrote:Ogryns are way to expsensive my TWC laugh them off

Well, yeah, it doesn't make sense to get ogryn tangled with wraithlord or dreadnoughts either. Just because they have units that counter them doesn't make them worthless.

Vincent305 wrote:wouldnt it be difficult to keep the lord comm or yarrick alive when in CC? since they are independant characters, arent they forced to move into base contact with the enemy?

Right, so it does take a little finesse.

With Ws5, Sv4+/5++ and W3, a lord commissar can survive a light beating without too much fuss. Of course, there are some things that a LC isn't terribly likely to survive, like, say, an engagement with grey knight terminators.

In those case, you simply peel off the LC, and attach him to a nearby squad. The ogryn still have stubborn on their own, and still get the Ld10 from the commissar. The only thing they're missing is the reroll, which is an unfortunate, but necessary price to pay to keep the LC alive some times.

I have a love/hate relationship with ogryns. I run 6 in a chimera like you. Anything that I don't like gets too close and I unleash them. x3 S5 shots each is quite good even though it lacks ap and a decent BS. It'll get you a few wounds before you enter assault which could decide the victor since the opponant has lost attacks already.

The general feeling towards them is that they're overpriced with which I'd agree. The thing is, Ogryns are the only dedicated CC unit guard have so we have to pay a premium for them. It also makes a commander very nervous about sending such pricey units into the whirling melee that will ensue.

My rule of thumb for Ogryns is only take them in games at around 1750. Never attack dedicated assault troops because they will take heavy losses and Ogryns cost more than most enemy assault troops. I try to only use them against things like tact squads if I can. I only go for units which pose a direct threat so you you them to counter-charge. Ogryns can chew through two or three shooty units so they are pretty versatile but will rarely get their points back. The idea is that the Ogryns will protect the tanks and heavy weapons which will then in turn get more kills and earn both their own points and the ogryns points back.

Deceiver wrote:Ogryns are the only dedicated CC unit guard have so we have to pay a premium for them.

To be fair, the guard codex also contains rough riders, power blobs, priests, straken, yarrick, al'rahem, and punchy PCSs, all of which are ALSO dedicated close combat units...

How many times have, as a guard player, you lost when marines manage to get to your lines and start blowing up tanks and assault your infantry? Now what happens if those units run into a unit or two of Ogryns? A solid 2k list is something like this:

CCS w/Standard, 2 Meltas in Chimera
2x5 Ogryns in Chimera
2xVet Squad w/3 Melta & Autocannon in Chimera
2xVet Squad w/3 Plasma & Autocannon in Chimera
2xVendetta
2xLeman Russ Exterminator w/Plasma Sponsons

Lots of shooting, lots of demeching ability and the chance to throw Orgyns into the leakers. Even allows for you to go on the offensive if you choose to. Basically Ogryns have their uses. It's one unit I truly fear w/my SW's when I play against guard for good reason. They are tough and make small MEQ squads cry.

Ailaros wrote:

Deceiver wrote:Ogryns are the only dedicated CC unit guard have so we have to pay a premium for them.

To be fair, the guard codex also contains rough riders, power blobs, priests, straken, yarrick, al'rahem, and punchy PCSs, all of which are ALSO dedicated close combat units...

Yeah but rough riders are one game wonders usually. No one falls for that old trick twice. It take some devious cunning to keep getting them into combat after that first game. I also wouldn't have said that powerblobs were a dedicated CC unit. I find their role is to shoot first and charge when they have to. I say 'when' because its rare that the opponant gets tabled before reaching you. Priests should be added to the blob so I'd consider him part of that unit. He's an IC too so you need a little bit of finesse to keep him out of the combat. The punchy PCS do well but theres not enough bodies. It can struggle to take on a tact squad even with the commissar and p/weps or p/fist. That doesn't strike me as a great cc unit. I do kit mine up for some CC but only to mop up stragglers or as a last resort incase my other units are under threat. As for some of the characters, yeah maybe but yarricks 185pts!!! I'm sure that '1' in there is a typo. 185 pts is more than a battle tank for a strength 3 model. Thats 4 ogryns for him alone.

I'll rephrase my statement Ogryns are the only VIABLE, sort of COST EFFECTIVE unit guard have other than power blob squads

For 105 points you can have 10 rough riders which have the mobility to get the charge. I'm not saying that ogryns are not viable but you can take three full rough rider squads for the cost of one ogryn squad with transport. To say that rough riders are not cost efficient is kind of silly for the damage they can do.

I applied the term generally. What opponant will let you get near them with rough riders twice? Anyone who's faced them knows they're dangerous and won't let them anywhere near their units. I don't consider rough riders VIABLE for a competitive list. Throwing a unit in every now and then is a good laugh and can really pay off but not for serious games.

Ya know, Ogryns are pricey, but they DO have a similar stat line to that of an Ork Warboss, so that is something there.

Really bad.

It's not that they are useless, far from it. But much like the hellhound variants, just overcosted with some really limiting options. Drop the points a bit, give them a pweapon and pfist option and they are good to go.

Drop the points a bit, give them a pweapon and pfist option and they are good to go.

Actually then they are OP. Ogryn are a really capable unit. You just need power attacks supporting them.

jp400 wrote:Myself and nobody I personally know runs them due to their unjustified points cost.

Bottom line, you can better spend the points elsewhere.

Dude, it would be much more credible if you stated this AFTER trying them out....as such several players (including myself) HAVE tried out ogryns (several times for me) and they DO work, but not necessarily the way most guys think they should work....

@ deceiver = on rough riders, I have used RR even more times than ogryns, and as a mobile reserve (I mean, literally coming from reserve) they work very well. Why? If they come from reserves you can react to the main thrust of the enemy unit who is most vulnerable to their power lances, and since you did not deploy them the enemy cannot shoot at them initially, and may be deterred enough to hesitate as he knows you have RR coming our of reserves.

Don't forget RR have krak G as standard issue equipment..this means they can go about tank hunting afterwards (to be honest, I do not hesitate to use their lances to tank hunt if the opportunity presents itself...the lesser strength is offset by double the number of attacks...I have brought down eldar skimmers this way...)...so no they are not useless without the lances folks, especially if your opponent fields tanks which are not monoliths and land raider....


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jmurph wrote:It's not that they are useless, far from it. But much like the hellhound variants, just overcosted with some really limiting options. Drop the points a bit, give them a pweapon and pfist option and they are good to go.

Giving them a fist or power weapons would make them overpowered....they would becomes a much cheaper daemon prince at a much lower cost....and that is not in the character of the IG....

Ogryns have actually many uses...first and foremost they are there to tie up a powerful enemy unit. The ability to win combat is secondary, but this they can do very well assuming you let them mop up a damaged enemy unit (not a full strength one..that's an act of desperation)....in addition they make for a very decent mobile shooty bunker with their ripper guns (in a chimera), especially versus non-meq armies. Finally, use them to blunt enemy transports that survive your shooting phase and are bum rushing your lines..their s6 attacks will do well versus a rear armor of 10, especially since they get a lot of attacks on the charge.....I use a unit of 4-5 ogryns and they do all these functions quite OK...

When I use them, I tend to keep a mounted CCS with the regimental standard close by, so they get a reroll if they lose in combat..I have tried sticking a psyker lord with them a couple of times but never got to use them in assault, as they never needed to dismount..thus they ended up just shooting the enemy from the chimera...

How would one ogryn bonehead with a pweapon or Pfist be OP? Like a daemon Prince? Have you even looked at a DPs stats? Higher WS, I, AS, WS, BS, LD and options to fly. And I anticipate the power options would be pricier than the run of the mill sarge options. And they still have the same LD issues, and no assault craft ala a landraider.

As it is, they are a mediocre choice in a good codex.