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I recently ran these in a 1500 point tournament much to the disdain of some fellow gamers at how much they were a waste of points.

I ran 6 in a rhino

The total cost was 305.

They have WS 4, Wounds 3, Stubburn leadership 7, attacks 3,sgt 4, and S5 ap5 ripper guns that are assault 3

These guys pulled a major victory for me in the first round. They jumped out of the chimera absorbed some fire. Beat a unit of bike marines and then escorted them off the board all the while foot slogging their way to charge my enemy off of his one obj. Total casualties 0, total killed: 8 bikes 1 assault bike, 1 rhino, 4 space marines.

In my third game they killed off an 8 man squad of screamers and shot a unit of fiends all the way down from 6 to 3 and a wound.

All you have to do is avoid S10 weapons and these guys are monsters and not many people know about them or give them any thought. haha

What do you all think?

They are good. If used correctly though normally in squads of 5-6.

They are overcosted. Sorry!

The only reason I don't use them is cost, they would have been good in a IG horde army or with a power blob squad.

As Bthom said, they are simply way too expensive for what they do.

Ogryns are concentrated guardsmen, math-hammer they are equal to their points in non upgraded platoon guardsmen.

However the guardsmen would also have the ability to take power weapons making them better in melee.

The only advantage the ogryns have is you can't fit a blob squad in a chimera, while their equivalent in ogryns can.
Use the ogryns in a completely mechanized list, if there are any footsloggers the use a blob squad instead.

Yes, ogryn are concentrated guardsmen, but they have other advantages than just riding in a chimera.

For one, they're really tough to kill in close combat without some form of high S close combat power. Unlike regular guardsmen, ogryn kind of just chuckle at regular space marines, even with a power weapon. This means it's easy to win a close combat with the same number of ogryn as you entered.

Secondly, they put down an absurd number of S6 attacks on the charge. This means that they can easily multi-assault chimera chassis vehicles and cause hideous carnage.

Finally, they're more immune to blast weapons, due to the low model count. This is in addition to other shenanigans like being able to get cover from infantry models while simultaneously being able to provide cover for vehicles.

The only caveat to ogryn is that they need either a chimera or, better, a lord commissar. Yes, ogryn are stubborn, but they're only Ld7, and they don't get a reroll. You have to either ONLY engage in close combats that you KNOW you're committing overkill in, or you need a lord commissar.

Of course, this all makes them expensive, but they're only "overcosted" if you're using them wrong.

Too bad they cant ride in a vendetta

I like them personally. I feel like they add something to the army that you really can't otherwise have. I also like the idea of a bunch of guys chasing space marines off the table yelling, "HEY YOU GUYS!!!"

The Foot wrote:I like them personally. I feel like they add something to the army that you really can't otherwise have. I also like the idea of a bunch of guys chasing space marines off the table yelling, "HEY YOU GUYS!!!"

Yea the only bad part is if they packed MRE's with candy bars in them. "eww a piece a candy!"

I like them. What would make them really shine is if one or two of them could take some kind of option for the wound shenanigans game.

when adding ogryns to an army list is it best to put 5 of them and a Lord comm in a chimera. how about a primaris instead of a lord comm? or how about foot slogging the ogryns at a higher population? whats the best ay?

My pal runs them in his IG army and I hate them. He runs 5 in a squad with a Lord Commisar and they are beasts.

I also run it the above way.

Ogryn need a lord commissar or else they run, and run hard. You either need to be very selective of your targets, or run them with an LC.

As for PP's, I guess they might do okay (mostly for nightshroud), but then your HQ choices will be a LC and a PP.

I have never faced them, but they look mean on paper. Sure they are alot of points, but if the rest of your list is efficient, then they could work.

I would definately turn my exorcists at their transports and then them.

A friend of mine runs ogryns, I've seen them used a lot, but only once have I seen them bested in melee, and that was by death company. Usually they can out tank most opponents they face. And they can put a lot of wounds on MEQs.

Hulksmash wrote:They are good. If used correctly though normally in squads of 5-6.

Agreed.

Ailaros wrote:The only caveat to ogryn is that they need either a chimera or, better, a lord commissar. Yes, ogryn are stubborn, but they're only Ld7, and they don't get a reroll. You have to either ONLY engage in close combats that you KNOW you're committing overkill in, or you need a lord commissar.

Agreed, and when I get a chance to play with my friend's Cadian army, I can always find a place for 5 Ogryns, lead by a LC, mounted in a Chimera. Good combo. Last game I used them in, I laughed off a GH squad, and was only taken down by a BC squad lead by a WG with a chainfist and a Rune Priest.

IMO, worth it.

How does the typical Ogryn unit stack against dedicated Close Combat units (think Assault Termies, Nobs, ect.)?

WarOne wrote:How does the typical Ogryn unit stack against dedicated Close Combat units (think Assault Termies, Nobs, ect.)?

See the first post for there stat line. You have to take them for what they are. It is the best option IG can get and they can take some punishment and dish out some themselves. Would I charge them into a unit of 8 berzerkers??? lol not likely. Though they could wipe the floor against a unit of 8 plague marines or even normal marines. They can even charge a daemon prince and take him down with mass amounts of hits and wounds.

WarOne wrote:How does the typical Ogryn unit stack against dedicated Close Combat units (think Assault Termies, Nobs, ect.)?

Reasonably well.

I mean, take an assault terminator squad and throw it up against a LC brute squad.

Ogryn shoot and kill 1, then they charge in and kill 2 more followed up with the LC powerfisting a 4th or 5th. In return, they're unlikely to kill anything, and the last dude, if he's not already dead, either runs away like a little girl (and possibly swept), or is fearless and probably fails an armor save.

The end result is a mostly fine squad, and a lot of dead terminators.

To see how ogryn can do more comprehensively against terminators, click here.

Even with their solid CC abilities, I still feel that unless your running a game so large you run out of models to use, their cost is just too much, and for the price you pay for them you can get unit a bit more useful.

Ogryn Squad = Vendetta
Ogryn Squad + 1 ogryn = Standard Leman Russ
Ogry Squad + 2 ogryn = Leman Russ Executioner/Punisher
Ogryn Squad + Commisar Lord = Platoon command squad + 3 Infantry squads + 2 power weapons

Necroshea wrote:Even with their solid CC abilities, I still feel that unless your running a game so large you run out of models to use, their cost is just too much, and for the price you pay for them you can get unit a bit more useful.

Ogryn Squad = Vendetta
Ogryn Squad + 1 ogryn = Standard Leman Russ
Ogry Squad + 2 ogryn = Leman Russ Executioner/Punisher
Ogryn Squad + Commisar Lord = Platoon command squad + 3 Infantry squads + 2 power weapons

What if you have already filled all your fast/heavy slots? What if you have to many troops already and can't take advantage of cover? On the other hand you may be going full chimera and a vendetta would stick out far too much, or be going all infantry where a vehicle is a liability.

The thing is that there is no easy "this unit is better in all lists" answer. Some lists are awesome with ogryns, some will suck. That is the nature of the game.

i enjoy running them. use five with either yarrick or a lord commissar. i prefer with yarrick, even though he swings last, his abilities when assaulting make it worth the point costs. and always run them in a chimera. if you foot slog them, they will be taken out before they become effective.

Trickstick wrote:

Necroshea wrote:Even with their solid CC abilities, I still feel that unless your running a game so large you run out of models to use, their cost is just too much, and for the price you pay for them you can get unit a bit more useful.

Ogryn Squad = Vendetta
Ogryn Squad + 1 ogryn = Standard Leman Russ
Ogry Squad + 2 ogryn = Leman Russ Executioner/Punisher
Ogryn Squad + Commisar Lord = Platoon command squad + 3 Infantry squads + 2 power weapons

What if you have already filled all your fast/heavy slots? What if you have to many troops already and can't take advantage of cover? On the other hand you may be going full chimera and a vendetta would stick out far too much, or be going all infantry where a vehicle is a liability.

The thing is that there is no easy "this unit is better in all lists" answer. Some lists are awesome with ogryns, some will suck. That is the nature of the game.

Very true, there's no denying that. I suppose my view is rather skewed in the matter, because every time I've seen someone use them they failed miserably. I do recall an argument I had with a guy at mt local GW store. He said Ogryns were awesome because you could stick them in Chimeras and drive around the place shooting people with their Ripper guns. I found it rather funny that he would use Ogryn for ranged purposes only (he made no mention of CC). Looking at the codex now, I suppose the only reason I could ever see taking them is, like you said, all your other slots are filled. It's not like IG has many good elite options Ogryn have to contend with.

Well this thread is about ogryns, so I'll not hijack it with my usual "stormtroopers are awesome" comments.

Ogryns are suprisingly good at shooting and you can get a large amount of fire coming out of those 5 firepoints. Also, as you can't assault out of a chimera if it moves first you have to wait until an enemy comes close anyway, so sitting inside is not too bad. You are pretty safe from explosions too.

Really, it boils down to a simple premise:

Ogryn are not a point and click unit. If you don't have a specific use for them planned out, then don't take them, they will just end up being overcosted and doing your army no good.

If you want them to justify their cost, you need to actually think about their specific use within your army to get any use out of them.

Trickstick wrote:Well this thread is about ogryns, so I'll not hijack it with my usual "stormtroopers are awesome" comments.

Ogryns are suprisingly good at shooting and you can get a large amount of fire coming out of those 5 firepoints. Also, as you can't assault out of a chimera if it moves first you have to wait until an enemy comes close anyway, so sitting inside is not too bad. You are pretty safe from explosions too.

Lol, I was expecting someone to mention stormtroopers.

Necroshea wrote:Lol, I was expecting someone to mention stormtroopers.

Happy to oblige.

*Looks around at the hotshot aimed at his head*

Erm, they can deepstrike really well!

Trickstick wrote:

Necroshea wrote:Lol, I was expecting someone to mention stormtroopers.

Happy to oblige.

*Looks around at the hotshot aimed at his head*

Erm, they can deepstrike really well!

a veteran 7 pts a model.
a stormtrooper 16.5

Hot shot lasguns only have 18" range and will still need 5 or 6's to wound anything they shoot at. I have never ran them because I couldnt bring myself to spend that much more on what I can get the same thing for less then half the price.

It's their drop ability that makes them useful. A mass of infantry functions like a hammer, storm troopers function much like a scalpel. Sorta like ogryn, they need a specific use or they suck. In the case of stormtroopers, you deepstrike and melta things.