6th Edition... of Ogre

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**Kilkrazy**

robertsjf wrote:
bbb wrote:What was Centurion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renegade_Legion

Centurion was the ground based version of the Renegade Legion line.

Why do people talk about Centurion like they can't play it anymore? Did you lose your copy or something?

Widowed Armor!

I did lose mine actually. I had both Renegade Legion and Centurion.

**Platuan4th**

Nicorex wrote:Are these cardboard chits or those plastic punch outs like that Pirate ship game?

The Ogres are punchouts like Pirates, the rest are Chits.

I just wish they'd show a comparison between the punchout Ogre and the Ogre Miniatures models.

**robertsjf**

Kilkrazy wrote:I did lose mine actually. I had both Renegade Legion and Centurion.

That does suck! I know there's a few places you can pick up the Centurion 1st ed for around $35 like noble knight and troll and toad. At least then you can start playing again!

**Savnock**

robertsjf wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:I did lose mine actually. I had both Renegade Legion and Centurion.

That does suck! I know there's a few places you can pick up the Centurion 1st ed for around $35 like noble knight and troll and toad. At least then you can start playing again!

Got a copy of Centurion sitting in my closet if anyone in the Seattle area wants to play! The shaped templates for armor damage based on the type of round (APDS vs. HEAT, etc.) were the best part for me. Seeing your tanks damaged not in some abstract percentile scale but actually seeing what the hole through your engine block looks like... awesome. And the background's pretty cool.

Back to the original topic, Ogre was a great game. $100 is a lot, but wait for Christmas again and Amazon will probably have another 30% off sale. Or buy it from your FLGS to give them a decent cut.

I used parts from the Howitzer platforms for a conversion a few years back. Shame, that.

**Guildsman**

$100? For cardboard? I expect a life-size model tank for that price. Nostalgia is great and all, but this seems like a niche product within an already narrow niche market.

**BrassScorpion**

Looking at the picture it does appear that most of the units are die cut counters, albeit larger than those in the original version. Which is highly useful since they have the attack factors and all that stuff printed on them. However, a $100 price does seem steep unless the contents are somehow massive.

**Kilkrazy**

I've got the original pocket box game and all the expansions.

The gameplay won't have changed, of course, so it is the quantity and quality of components which matters.

$100 does sound like a lot though most board wargames cost that much these days.

If it contains as many maps and unit counters as the original game plus supplements it may be worth it.

**BrassScorpion**

Here's the full announcement from the SJG site explaining all about the components. And for the record, back when SJ's heroes were SPI and Avalon Hill, that was the case for me as well.

March 12, 2011: Open (Ogre) Letter To Distributors

Ogre 6e Cover Later this year, we’ll release Ogre 6th Edition. It will be a very, very deluxe boardgame, with all the rules and units from Ogre, G.E.V., and Shockwave, as well as things that have only appeared in magazines and miniature releases.

Why? Because I want to. Ogre was my first design, and the boardgame version hasn’t been available for years. And people keep asking me for it. So some of our Munchkin money is going back to support the people who bought my very first game, by bringing them an edition with the best possible components.

It won’t be “Euro” style. No meeples, no plastic. This will be the kind of hex wargame that we dreamed about 30 years ago, back when our heroes were SPI and Avalon Hill. HUGE double-sided map boards. HUGE full-color counters with HUGE type. A HUGE box to hold them in. And giant constructible Ogres!

So why am I writing this letter? Not to say “Hey, distributors, we’ll do this if you like the idea.” I’m going to release this game, no matter what. If we don’t get enough distributor interest, we’ll release it for direct sales only, with (probably) a lower print run, and (certainly) a lower price, since we won’t have to build in the distributor and retailer margin.

But I don’t want to bypass distribution. We went through this with GURPS Russia, back in ’98. When we solicited it, the distributors said “Meh.” We believed in the book, and printed a short run for direct sales. Suddenly everybody wanted it! It sold out quickly, distributors and retailers demanded it, and we ended up reprinting it for distribution! I won’t go through that again.

Here’s why you may not want this game: It’s going to retail for $100, and it isn’t full of plastic toys. It’s a classic hex wargame, and those aren’t in fashion. Here’s why I hope you DO want it:

* It’s a humongous, heavy box that will have a huge shelf presence. How big is it? Over twice the size of Munchkin Quest. It takes three copies of the original edition of Ogre to cover up the word "OGRE" on this box.
* It’s got three huge mapboards with 1.5” hexes, and big full-color counters. The Ogre and building counters are 3-D constructible miniatures!
* I don’t expect to keep this in print. Realistically, I expect to print it once and let people spend the next 30 years fighting over the remaining copies. The people who get it are going to show it off at parties and conventions.
* It’s a pretty good game, if I say so myself. A lot of people remember it. (More than 25 years after its original release, Ogre won a spot in Hobby Games: The 100 Best.) Some of them would love to drop $100 for a beautiful version of the game they played 20 or 30 years ago, whether it was in high school, or in Germany or Kuwait or some classified spot in the middle of the Pacific.

Talk to Ross at the GAMA Trade Show next week, and feel free to write directly to me at sj@sjgames.com. We've also created a sell sheet with more information; please note that the art, both on the sell sheet and above, is not final.

-- Steve Jackson

**Capt_Bowman**

Tempting.... Very tempting!

**Adam LongWalker**

I have the DOS version of Orge on my win95 rig and of course all of the original pocket games.

But again $100 for cardboard? I'll wait.

**chaos0xomega**

Now for those of us too young to remember Ogre (most of us is my guess), it is my understanding that in this game, one player plays the role of the Ogre, and the other player has control of conventional survivor forces. The goal of the Ogre player is to destroy everything, while the goal of the other player is merely to survive, which rarely happens. Is this correct or is my understanding flawed?

**Kilkrazy**

That was the original game. The expansions introduced new maps and optional rules.

**Hatemonger**

chaos0xomega wrote:Now for those of us too young to remember Ogre (most of us is my guess), it is my understanding that in this game, one player plays the role of the Ogre, and the other player has control of conventional survivor forces. The goal of the Ogre player is to destroy everything, while the goal of the other player is merely to survive, which rarely happens. Is this correct or is my understanding flawed?

That's what I thought too, but the picture clearly shows two (presumably opposing) OGREs in different colors, and makes it sound like players have equal armies.

As for the price point... I dunno. I can see how a big fan of the original game could want it for nostalgia alone, and the idea of a "deluxe" version could make it worth the money. For me, I don't know that it stands up well in comparison to current alternatives. If it was sitting on a shelf next to Space Hulk, Horus Heresy, Twilight Imperium, Arkham Horror, Axis & Allies... I think it would be a hard sell to simply say, "No, no, it's a great game! Totally worth the money!" My guess is that the direct-only price he mentioned would be more palatable.

- H8

**Balance**

Hatemonger wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:Now for those of us too young to remember Ogre (most of us is my guess), it is my understanding that in this game, one player plays the role of the Ogre, and the other player has control of conventional survivor forces. The goal of the Ogre player is to destroy everything, while the goal of the other player is merely to survive, which rarely happens. Is this correct or is my understanding flawed?

That's what I thought too, but the picture clearly shows two (presumably opposing) OGREs in different colors, and makes it sound like players have equal armies.

From the note Steve Jackson posted, it sounds like this is the 'ultimate edition' so I'd guess there will be scenarios for Ogre vs. Ogre, Ogre vs. Horde, Horde vs. Horde, etc.... Presumably with some special scenarios... i vaguely remember reading that they have published some where the scenario is more about a half-dead Ogre that needs to escape, not kill everything, to change the dynamic a bit.

I've never actually played Ogre: Would Horde vs. Horde be fun?

**BrassScorpion**

I've never actually played Ogre: Would Horde vs. Horde be fun?

There is nothing about Ogre that isn't fun. Horde vs. Horde would be a more conventional battle than Ogre vs. Horde, but like any well-conceived hexagon and counters strategy board game, it would be fun. And all the units are futuristic, so the science fiction element is there whether an Ogre is in the battle or not.

**Polonius**

I'm not doubting that I could get $100 worth of fun out of this, I just don't see myself risking it.

**Savnock**

That's it- I'm going to an internet etailer here in SEA that does 30% off and getting a copy of this as soon as it comes out... unless my FLGS has a copy, in which case I'll send a few extra bucks their way. This will be my game of the summer.

**RiTides**

Argh, people... what's a chit? I've seen it probably dozens of times in this thread, and I never encountered the word before except in passing.

I see someone making a distinction between a cardboard punchout, and chits at some point, with chits seemingly cheaper/worse. So what is one?

I would be open to this game, I'd have to see what it is. I wasn't around with some of you old-timers to buy early versions of it

**Balance**

RiTides wrote:Argh, people... what's a chit? I've seen it probably dozens of times in this thread, and I never encountered the word before except in passing.
I see someone making a distinction between a cardboard punchout, and chits at some point, with chits seemingly cheaper/worse. So what is one?

It's a cardboard punchout in this context, but I guess it could also include cut-out-yourself cardboard tokens from older games and similar. There's a big difference (for example) from the cardboard ship cutouts my old Spelljammer box set came with and the nice thick cardstock markers in this box set, from looking at the pictures.

**BrassScorpion**

What's a chit? You're on the Internet! If you don't own a dictionary there are plenty of free dictionaries online.

Chits are small bits of paper with writing on them by dictionary definition.

Actually, the more traditional term for small game unit markers often made from cardboard is "counters". Avalon Hill and SPI always referred to their game unit die-cut counters. Chits was usually reserved for the markers that did not represent the military units for the game, like numbered chits that might have to be drawn at random during the game or unit status markers.

**cygnnus**

$100 may be steep, but it also includes the rules and counters from Ogre, GEV, and Shockwave as well as the maps based on the "sell sheet" art and description. Still expensive, but more palatable than *just* Ogre. And that said, I do recall an article by Steve Jackson way back in the day in Space Gamer about how expensive getting counters die-cut was. The original Ogre/GEV/Shockwave sheets were uncut and you had to (carefully) cut out the counters by hand to play the game.

As for the questions about replay, the game series truly is a classic. Very good game-play (the Rochambeau-like relationship between Heavy Tank, GEV, and Missile Tank in GEV is classic, as is the ability of infantry to play a very effective role by hunkering down in the right terrain, GEVs skirmishing against Howizters (or Ogres that have lost an MP or two!), etc...).

Great games, although I thought Shockwave's "new" units jumped the shark a bit (never liked structure points or the different laser buildings, rarely if ever found a use for Marines, ditto for LGEVs), but at the core, Ogre and GEV are simply great games.

Ogre also works as a very passible solo game. The Ogre Book had a great suggested set of simple solo rules that made for very good games (pre-Internet, of course!) when you couldn't find an opponent...

GEV/Shockwave is also a great game for "roll your own" scenarios. But even that aside, Ceasefire Collapse is a great "generic" scenario. Atrocity is a nail-biting encounter between disparate forces, and anytime you get an Ogre involved the game's interesting.

Dang... This all brings back memories of endless games of Ogre or GEV in HS Social Studies and Study Hall back in the late '80's... I guess I'm going to have to dig out all my old Ogre stuff and thumb through it again.

That said, I'm not sure I can stomach (or convince the wife to agree to) a $100 wargame that I already have several copies of.

Valete,

JohnS

**Tacobake**

neato

**chaos0xomega**

cygnnus wrote:
As for the questions about replay, the game series truly is a classic. Very good game-play (the Rochambeau-like relationship between Heavy Tank, GEV, and Missile Tank in GEV is classic, as is the ability of infantry to play a very effective role by hunkering down in the right terrain, GEVs skirmishing against Howizters (or Ogres that have lost an MP or two!), etc...).

Tanks and GEV's kick eachother in the balls?

**Hellfury**

Hatemonger wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:Now for those of us too young to remember Ogre (most of us is my guess), it is my understanding that in this game, one player plays the role of the Ogre, and the other player has control of conventional survivor forces. The goal of the Ogre player is to destroy everything, while the goal of the other player is merely to survive, which rarely happens. Is this correct or is my understanding flawed?

That's what I thought too, but the picture clearly shows two (presumably opposing) OGREs in different colors, and makes it sound like players have equal armies.

There are also different OGRE variants. Ogre MKII, OGRE MKII, etc. It's likely to include each variant except the OGRETHULHU stuff.

**Alpharius**

I really want to pick this up.

The only thing stopping me is... who will I play this with?

**robertsjf**

Alpharius wrote:who will I play this with?

What? You have everything you need to play. Con a friend with pizza, offer a wino a bottle of vodka for a game, hire a working girl. You just need another warm body!

**Howard A Treesong**

chaos0xomega wrote:Now for those of us too young to remember Ogre (most of us is my guess), it is my understanding that in this game, one player plays the role of the Ogre, and the other player has control of conventional survivor forces. The goal of the Ogre player is to destroy everything, while the goal of the other player is merely to survive, which rarely happens. Is this correct or is my understanding flawed?

That's pretty much it. The OGRE player just has to destroy the defending command post rather than just clear the whole map though. The defending player has loads of smaller units like tanks, howitzers and infantry and the damage accumulates on the OGRE. So you keep attacking it knocking points of its armour, tracks guns or whatever and this gradually means it has less firepower and moves slower.
In the games I've played the best hope is to damage the tracks enough that it comes to a halt out of range of the command post and it unable to destroy it. Actually destroying the OGRE completely takes a lot of doing.

**Alpharius**

robertsjf wrote:
Alpharius wrote:who will I play this with?

What? You have everything you need to play. Con a friend with pizza, offer a wino a bottle of vodka for a game, hire a working girl. You just need another warm body!

Well, that is my problem, yes?

You need a warm body who also actually desires to play a wargame!

Sad to say, easier said than done for me these days...

Still, I'll probably buy it!

**lasgunpacker**

All of this enthusiasim makes me want it... maybe Amazon will have it for 30% off?

**demonfell**

I have been waiting for this for ages! No question, I will be buying this. People were complaining about the price of Space Hulk 3E also. $100 will barely get your foot in the door for most collectible games these days.
If you take this stuff seriously, then there's $100 of value. If you buy the thing, put it in your closet and never open it, then there's at least $100 of value. If you don't get it, then don't get it, and that's OK too.