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Vain wrote:Sure they may now have fancy in game mechanics about plasma-dis and energy-dat but the fluff us what has suffered. Or so I read that argument. From the fluff and corroborating media it is hard to imagine an ork doing anything other than charging something and trying to kill it.

There is no "Ork at rest" concept that people can think about and wonder.

What is an ork doing when not killing.....dying?

40k fluff in general has lacked this for a long time. Depends on who writes the book. Phil kelly likes to add this kind of fluff. Ward and Cruddace are all about the big battles.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I get the impression nowadays that Orks don't really leave a planet much better off than The Tyranid do.

Probably worse, tyranid-destroyed worlds at least smell better afterwards...

Hmm, how are Gretchin armed in the codex? might have to model some human slaves... I really like that idea, awesome old fluff...

talking about gretchins - just imagine these bad treated, mean-spirited buggers come across some helpless little humans, who are even smaller and weaker than gretchins!

poor little kids...

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Now they have plasma engines and energy shields and teleportation.

They've had all of this stuff since at least "Waaaaagh! The Orks!" was published back in the '90s (RT era).

The first plastic ork box set included plasma weapons (not engines, but close enough - you probably can't make one without also being able to make the other). Gargants in Epic have had energy shields since the start. And the Shok Attack Gun - which dates back to RT - is a weaponized teleporter.

I could imagine orks taking slaves when they need them but making a sport out of killing their slaves when they get bored. Let them go, chase them down, kill them. I'm guessing that's why a lot of fluff says they enslave people but you never see any slaves and it explains why they still need grots.

Or set one of the slaves on fire because it's funny watching the hapless slave scream and run around.

Harriticus wrote:What I'm curious about with Orks, is what if there's some Human psyker/mutant/cyborg who is able to kill a large number of Orks, would the other Orks respect him as the boss or would they just gang up on him until he's dead?

Orks don't seem like the type that would be racist, and yet I've heard them talk about how they only respect others with green skin.

Yes, Orks are scared of Marbo and the Catachans

some even paint their stompas to look like the Catachan scheme

Orks might spare one that gives a good fight like Ghaz did with Yarric. Ghaz actually captured Yarric at some point and tortured him a bit and allowed him to leave as Ghaz thinks killing him would be wasting a good enemy.

So if you give a good fight before being aptured by orks they might spare and not enslave you as they want to fight you again.

Vain wrote:What is an ork doing when not killing.....dying?

Eating, sleeping, drinking, taking a trip to the latrine, coming back from the latrine, building something, wrecking something else, daubing something with graffiti, telling tall tales...
They actually do a lot, you know.

Leigen_Zero wrote:

Harriticus wrote:
Orks don't seem like the type that would be racist, and yet I've heard them talk about how they only respect others with green skin.

Orks aren't racist, they hate all non-orks equally and indiscriminantly

Orks don't really hate anything, except not-fighting. They don't give a crap one way or the other about who they're fighting so long as they're fighting.

Im pretty sure anything orks don't kill, they enslave to make more guns and gubbins.

Right, Orks enslave non-combatants.

Good question...I think it depeds on the ork but either way if the will not kill the civilians they will take them as slaves.....By the way have there been times when the space marines, Imperial Guards, Edar, or Tau have liberated the slaves from the camps?

bob the heretic wrote:Good question...I think it depeds on the ork but either way if the will not kill the civilians they will take them as slaves.....By the way have there been times when the space marines, Imperial Guards, Edar, or Tau have liberated the slaves from the camps?

Most of the races wouldn't care to begin with unless the slaves were of their own race.

Fluff-wise, the only "free the slaves" incident that I'm aware of off the top of my head involves Comissar Cain, and a squad of PDF who exceeded his orders (Cain just wanted to steal some vehicles; the NCO of the PDF squad "liberally" interpreted his orders to allow the freeing of the NCO's sister - along with all of the other slaves). I'm sure that there are plenty of incidents involving raids to free slaves. It's just that that kind of fluff doesn't make for the most glamerous reading, and so gets ignored by the GW staff.

lord_blackfang wrote:Orks kill whatever's fun to kill.

And it' not like they're mental clones. One might set the orphanage on fire for gaks and giggles, another might pass it by because killing kids is boring, a third might take the kids to be his servants.

What about food? I'm sure an orphan might taste good with some BBQ sauce....

Most of the races wouldn't care to begin with unless the slaves were of their own race.

Really? Well sure I agre about the Imperium I guess, but how about eldar and Tau....Arnt they sort off more careing for there race then the Imperium would be? Especially the Eldars beacuse they basically are exticnt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Most of the races wouldn't care to begin with unless the slaves were of their own race.

Really? Well sure I agre about the Imperium I guess, but how about eldar and Tau....Arnt they sort off more careing for there race then the Imperium would be? Especially the Eldars beacuse they basically are exticnt, and other then themselves tehy try to help others sometimes. Or how about about if the camp is 50% human and 50% Eldars....Would the Eldars go in destroy the base and rescue the Eldars but then excecute the poor humans?

bob the heretic wrote:

Most of the races wouldn't care to begin with unless the slaves were of their own race.

Really? Well sure I agre about the Imperium I guess, but how about eldar and Tau....Arnt they sort off more careing for there race then the Imperium would be? Especially the Eldars beacuse they basically are exticnt, and other then themselves tehy try to help others sometimes. Or how about about if the camp is 50% human and 50% Eldars....Would the Eldars go in destroy the base and rescue the Eldars but then excecute the poor humans?

Well...yeah, especially Biel-Tan. Or they might just let them be and not give a damn. The most I can see them doing is letting the humans out first to provide a distraction while the Eldar steal away their own.

bob the heretic wrote:

Most of the races wouldn't care to begin with unless the slaves were of their own race.

Really? Well sure I agre about the Imperium I guess, but how about eldar and Tau....Arnt they sort off more careing for there race then the Imperium would be? Especially the Eldars beacuse they basically are exticnt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Most of the races wouldn't care to begin with unless the slaves were of their own race.

Really? Well sure I agre about the Imperium I guess, but how about eldar and Tau....Arnt they sort off more careing for there race then the Imperium would be? Especially the Eldars beacuse they basically are exticnt, and other then themselves tehy try to help others sometimes. Or how about about if the camp is 50% human and 50% Eldars....Would the Eldars go in destroy the base and rescue the Eldars but then excecute the poor humans?

TheEldar are a cold calculating race if they freed a POW/Slave camp with both humans and Eldar the Farseers would try and predict the future. If helping the humans would benefit te Eldar they would hep them, if slaughtering every single one of them would save a single Eldar life they woldn't hesitate in pulling the trigger. If it was unclear they would free the Eldar and begger [sic] off leaving the humans to their own devices. Thats the impression of the Eldar their not goodie goodies, their not evil their just a (some would say justifiably) selfish race.

As for the Tau Empire in the 50/50 senario the tau would be freed (Unless they are part of the farsight conclave in which thay would eaiter try and reintergrate them into the Empire or execute them on the spot). The other race they would try and introduce them to the greater good, if they peacefully declined they would leave tham to their own devices but keep a water caste delegate to maintain a dialog and try and open trade etc and continue trying bring them round the the Greater Good. If the other prisioners behaved violently to being introduced to the greater good then they would be slaughtered.

bob the heretic wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Most of the races wouldn't care to begin with unless the slaves were of their own race.

Really? Well sure I agre about the Imperium I guess, but how about eldar and Tau....Arnt they sort off more careing for there race then the Imperium would be? Especially the Eldars beacuse they basically are exticnt, and other then themselves tehy try to help others sometimes. Or how about about if the camp is 50% human and 50% Eldars....Would the Eldars go in destroy the base and rescue the Eldars but then excecute the poor humans?

?

What part of "... unless the slaves were of their own race" flew past you? What I specifically stated is that most of the races wouldn't particularly care about the slaves unless the slaves were of the same race. Ergo, go ahead and bomb the slave camp from orbit (you're destroying a source of supplies for the orks) if you want - provided the slaves aren't the same race as the guys with the orbital guns. If the slaves *are* the same race as the guys with the orbital guns, then there's a good chance that plans will be looked at to determine if it's possible to get the slaves out more or less alive without excessive casualties among the would-be rescuers.

And my "most" comment was included to allow for a very specific exception - namely, the Tau, who would no doubt attempt to "recruit" any non-Tau in a slave camp (and re-educate anyone who turns down their "offer").

There´s a nice snip of fluff in the WHF O&O army book where a WAAAGH!!! Boss stops the assault on a fortress of the empire after smashing the gate because the defenders were looking to afraid and there was another fortress nearby where the defenders looked like more "fighty" to the Boos. So he stopped his charge just before the defenders would have been destroyed to get on the other one where a better fight was in sight. It´s not really 40k fluff but I can imagine the Space Orkz are somewhat similiar.

All surviving non-combatants are shipped off to be worked to death in the ork pantz factories to supply the endless need for pantz.

*seriously though, I think anyone who surrenders or doesn't put up a good fight (i.e. to the death) would be enslaved and worked to death to supply the Waaagh.

Pacific wrote:

That's it, since their inception (basically as slightly more foul-mouthed london dockers with green skin, sorry if there are any London dockers reading this!) Orcs have become more and more bestial. Look at the two books they had released for them, which dealt largely with background and culture back in the RT days. Now, other than the characters, there's not much too it and it will show off your verbal diarrhoea if you can fill a page of the codex.

Nowadays they don't really have any culture, they grow out of a mushroom on the ground, turn around and find the nearest thing to kill. If there is an external enemy, they turn towards that and run full pelt until they/the enemy is dead. It's essentially the 40k equivalent of a World of Warcraft battleground, the orcs display a similar level of self-preservation and intelligence.

I kind of preferred the older fluff, it was a hell of a lot more characterful and I think it's only the fact that the computer games have come out that will stop the next Orc codex from removing their language altogether, other than to scream at their opponent. Can you tell which conception I prefer?

Agree totally. A think a lot of the 40k fluff has started to lose its depth. Why is every single individual of any given race (even human) expected to be an exact racial duplicate of the most simplified explanation of itself?

You should look at IA8: RAID ON KASTOREL-NOVEM

There is some stuff about Ork held planets there including the capture and use of Human slaves IIRC.

They have been slavers since RT and nothing has changed since then.

All Orks want is Loot, Gunz and food. Slave can help them get the second one or become the third.

Thanks guys for giving me info on this

Orks aren't dumb animals. They're cunning fungi.

Throughout the well-fluffed 3rd War for Armageddon there was material concerning Human/Ork collaborators, and there is also mention that Orks can conceivably be bought off with weapons - which they will inevitably turn against their original owners. Distinctly 'clever' Orks (such as Ghazgkull) are clearly quite capable orators and the communicative skills that make them (successful) leaders probably have other uses than in bossin the boyz about. Orks are inherently violent but they absolutely have a rich society. Slaves can always have a part in this.

I also like to prescribe to a bit of Fantasy fluff from the 6th edition book - Orcs gather the dead and toss them into roasting pits so that they can feast (da boyz gots ta 'ave meat ta eat!), erect monuments to their gods (which might represent building/converting weapons - certainly lootin' seems to be an important part of Orky kulture in the 41st Millenium) and generally trash the place under the ruse of an overexcited game of squig-ball before moving on.

A battle-crazed Ork would probably delight in slaughtering a roomful of unarmed civilians and probably have a great laugh doing it too. When he's a bit calmer he may ignore the human, or catch it to torture and "have a bit 'o fun wiv", or simply squash it/shoot it because it's pink and soft instead of gnarly and propa green.


Unlike Space Marines, who constantly eat little children so that they can experience childhood memories via their Omophagaeic function (right?), Orks are not entirely merciless. They're probably too lazy to put the effort in that Space Marines employ when 'cleansing' anyway.

The Orks of the worlds of 'Undred-'Undred Teef in the Koronus Expanse have rather a lot of Kulture. Most of it would seem familiar to the personnel of the ships of the Imperial Navy, as it's a blend of naval custom and space-piracy... all Orky like.