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WarOne wrote:I think this needs to be taken to PMs or phone conversations to try and hash out any questions or concerns.

He did that for 2+ years.

He's still not had his stuff returned.

That time has passed.

I mean for Alpharius to talk to Architechnic personally as he does not know the full history of what happened here or how legitimate Alpharius' claims are.

I know it's beyond PMs between Alph and RSO, but for others who are utterly in the dark, it is best to talk to both sides of the story and make their decision as to whom they believe. Listening to us won't really help him make an objective decision on this matter.

WarOne wrote:I think this needs to be taken to PMs or phone conversations to try and hash out any questions or concerns.

You're absolutely right, but seeing as Alpharius is a Mod, the rules will be ingored (like always for the staff) and this post will live on.

Yay hypocrisy!


Back on topic, Alpharius needs to seek legal council in this matter. Since everyone (himself included) are so convinved that this is a slam-dunk case of guilt on RSOs part, he would surely win the case as well as legal fees, right?

As far as "Pay it forward goes"... when someone says "We're not a scam, we're for realz!" it equates to the used-car salesman smiling his best shark-toothed smile and saying "trust me! Have I got a deal just for you 'cause I like you!"

Definitely beware.

@whitedragon, thank you for the heads up.

My personal opinion is that we shouldn't try to flame or troll other forums or threads involving redstarone. I ave seen several complaints about him but I am not involved.

My best advice for the situation, let alpharius, redstarone, anyone else involved & the proper authorities deal with it. Let's not become 4chan & go off on some holy war because one of our members was wronged.

Architechnic wrote:

Look at the facts, find out for yourselves if you must. But don't lynch a man for doing a good thing.

Please show me that I'm right, and do not spread this as lynching, hate-fueled rhetoric and rumours

Absolutely. Just because one person had a bad experience with him doesn't mean anything does it? Let's ask other Dakka members their thoughts;


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/290901.page


Oh....well oops! That's rather embarrassing it appears many Dakka members have been scammed. Well....surely it's just a Dakka thing right? I bet other forums with high reputations for trading things...like Bartertown for instance think highly of Redstarone.

http://www.bartertown.com/trading/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=103991


Oh? Banned there for ripping people off as well?



Well, I'm sure it's all a coincidence.

It wouldn't happen - Matt has nothing for me to 'win' and really, the solution here is very simple - ship the packages to me.

You've actually read my explanation post, right?

Is there something in there that isn't clear, or doesn't make sense?

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

WarOne wrote:I think this needs to be taken to PMs or phone conversations to try and hash out any questions or concerns.

He did that for 2+ years.

He's still not had his stuff returned.

That time has passed.

I mean for Alpharius to talk to Architechnic personally as he does not know the full history of what happened here or how legitimate Alpharius' claims are.

I know it's beyond PMs between Alph and RSO, but for others who are utterly in the dark, it is best to talk to both sides of the story and make their decision as to whom they believe. Listening to us won't really help him make an objective decision on this matter.

Bunker wrote:You're absolutely right, but seeing as Alpharius is a Mod, the rules will be ingored (like always for the staff) and this post will live on.

Frazzled is a mod and his threads get closed all the time.

But was that serious or fun-poking?

Ok I wanted to stop reading after the Apharius posted because it was all the same.

I want it on record that I've done nothing to trol,l unless your understanding of the word is different from the correct one.

Alpharius, yes I would like to speak to you further. PM me on the other forum, and I will even give you my personal cell phone number.

To the rest of the forum. I know some of you are banned from other forums, I know some of you have bad reports on place like Barter Town...

I have never once screwed over someone, lied to someone, or done wrong by anyone.

Yes red and I bonded over some things. And we talk from time to time. Yes I know him better than I know any of you.

To the people who called me a troll: I hope you see the irony, and realize my actual intent

To those of you who were actually tactful and kind, especially Ma55ter, thank you for welcoming me to the site.

I'm sad to say this will be my last post on your forum. I'm sorry, but I do not feel welcome. I'm sad to say I've heard this from people in the past.

I'm not defending RSO over Alpharius. I'm simply calling for them to resolve it out of the public.

If Alpharius is correct, then this is a felony; state lines do not matter. RSO has sent you most of what he owes as far as I know. And has been in contact with you. He wants you to call him. He told me this over the phone; he has provided you with his number. Feel free to use that. If Alpharius wishes to contact me, I will answer and freely give my own phone number.

For the record when I say 'our forum' I mean 40kforums, as quoted in the first post.


I know RSO is looking to perhaps end the Pay it Forward group because of things like this.

I think it is a wonderful thing (hence why I have donated to it and even chosen some winners of my goods).

If he decides to end his involvement I will be taking it over. I hope you all can allow yourselves to see past any problems you have with him, and continue to support the community.

I hope you all have wonderful lives full of compassion, love, and insight.

-Arch

EDIT: several people posted while I was typing. I'd like to thank many of you for handling this well and responding to me well: Alpharius and Shas'O Dorian to name a few. Thanks

Alpharius wrote:It wouldn't happen - Matt has nothing for me to 'win' and really, the solution here is very simple - ship the packages to me.

You've actually read my explanation post, right?

Is there something in there that isn't clear, or doesn't make sense?

I am now getting very confused. Who are you talking to now?

Rahveel -Seriously, what the hell people. we are not the police of the internet.

let the real police deal with it. Alpharius needs to contact REAL legal authority, not spread slander about another gamer. its bs, and childish.

NONE of us know what is going on. RSO could be under attack from a few internet nerds who saw a chance to scam some free gak off of Pay it forward.

as much as the 40k community wants to jump down someones back for percieved wrongdoings, its turning into a bunch of bs and hearsay.

this is not a witch hunt.

You Sir, seem to be the only one not up to date, or misinformed. As for 'Seriously folks' or 'BS and Hearsay' - I urge you to investigate the train wreck before calling the Fat Controller out on Thomas's stuff up.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

WarOne wrote:I think this needs to be taken to PMs or phone conversations to try and hash out any questions or concerns.

He did that for 2+ years.

He's still not had his stuff returned.

That time has passed.

the he really needs to go the legal route.

Architechnic wrote:Ok I wanted to stop reading after the Apharius posted because it was all the same.

I want it on record that I've done nothing to trol,l unless your understanding of the word is different from the correct one.

Alpharius, yes I would like to speak to you further. PM me on the other forum, and I will even give you my personal cell phone number.

To the rest of the forum. I know some of you are banned from other forums, I know some of you have bad reports on place like Barter Town...

I have never once screwed over someone, lied to someone, or done wrong by anyone.

Yes red and I bonded over some things. And we talk from time to time. Yes I know him better than I know any of you.

To the people who called me a troll: I hope you see the irony, and realize my actual intent

To those of you who were actually tactful and kind, especially Ma55ter, thank you for welcoming me to the site.

I'm sad to say this will be my last post on your forum. I'm sorry, but I do not feel welcome. I'm sad to say I've heard this from people in the past.

I'm not defending RSO over Alpharius. I'm simply calling for them to resolve it out of the public.

If Alpharius is correct, then this is a felony; state lines do not matter. RSO has sent you most of what he owes as far as I know. And has been in contact with you. He wants you to call him. He told me this over the phone; he has provided you with his number. Feel free to use that. If Alpharius wishes to contact me, I will answer and freely give my own phone number.

For the record when I say 'our forum' I mean 40kforums, as quoted in the first post.


I know RSO is looking to perhaps end the Pay it Forward group because of things like this.

I think it is a wonderful thing (hence why I have donated to it and even chosen some winners of my goods).

If he decides to end his involvement I will be taking it over. I hope you all can allow yourselves to see past any problems you have with him, and continue to support the community.

I hope you all have wonderful lives full of compassion, love, and insight.

-Arch

Good luck.

And if you misinterpreted what I said earlier, it was issues you brought up about trolling and credibility about Alpharius. I did not intend to call you a troll.

Could we also as a forum not respond in a negative way to this response, as it could be playing right into his expectations of us.

A thread lock would probably do well too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Worglock wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

WarOne wrote:I think this needs to be taken to PMs or phone conversations to try and hash out any questions or concerns.

He did that for 2+ years.

He's still not had his stuff returned.

That time has passed.

the he really needs to go the legal route.

I meant Alph and Arch doing the PM thing.

Alpharius wrote:It wouldn't happen - Matt has nothing for me to 'win' and really, the solution here is very simple - ship the packages to me.

You've actually read my explanation post, right?

Is there something in there that isn't clear, or doesn't make sense?

Why you haven't filed criminal charges would be a good place to start.

Architechnic wrote:Ok I wanted to stop reading after the Apharius posted because it was all the same.

I want it on record that I've done nothing to trol,l unless your understanding of the word is different from the correct one.

Alpharius, yes I would like to speak to you further. PM me on the other forum, and I will even give you my personal cell phone number.

To the rest of the forum. I know some of you are banned from other forums, I know some of you have bad reports on place like Barter Town...

I have never once screwed over someone, lied to someone, or done wrong by anyone.

Yes red and I bonded over some things. And we talk from time to time. Yes I know him better than I know any of you.

To the people who called me a troll: I hope you see the irony, and realize my actual intent

To those of you who were actually tactful and kind, especially Ma55ter, thank you for welcoming me to the site.

I'm sad to say this will be my last post on your forum. I'm sorry, but I do not feel welcome. I'm sad to say I've heard this from people in the past.

I'm not defending RSO over Alpharius. I'm simply calling for them to resolve it out of the public.

If Alpharius is correct, then this is a felony; state lines do not matter. RSO has sent you most of what he owes as far as I know. And has been in contact with you. He wants you to call him. He told me this over the phone; he has provided you with his number. Feel free to use that. If Alpharius wishes to contact me, I will answer and freely give my own phone number.

For the record when I say 'our forum' I mean 40kforums, as quoted in the first post.


I know RSO is looking to perhaps end the Pay it Forward group because of things like this.

I think it is a wonderful thing (hence why I have donated to it and even chosen some winners of my goods).

If he decides to end his involvement I will be taking it over. I hope you all can allow yourselves to see past any problems you have with him, and continue to support the community.

I hope you all have wonderful lives full of compassion, love, and insight.

-Arch

I don't know what RSO is going through, or has been going through for the past few years, but if you know him as well as you say you do, I suggest you talk to him, take charge and finance his efforts to the point that all of his current wargaming debts are resolved. His reputation does not get any better, no matter who defends him. Sooner or later, he will be unable to make any money off people for wargaming ever again, and he will still be in the same situation. If he's as great as you say he is, find him, take the models, ship them yourself, and his name will be cleared, and we will believe you, and be happy to commision him in the future. Posting here has not helped him in any way, and I suggest you take action if you are seriously concerned about your friend.

Bunker - You're absolutely right, but seeing as Alpharius is a Mod, the rules will be ingored (like always for the staff) and this post will live on.

Yay hypocrisy!

Because of the first rule I'll just say this Sirrah..

Incorrect.

Worglock wrote:

Alpharius wrote:It wouldn't happen - Matt has nothing for me to 'win' and really, the solution here is very simple - ship the packages to me.

You've actually read my explanation post, right?

Is there something in there that isn't clear, or doesn't make sense?

Why you haven't filed criminal charges would be a good place to start.

This, this, a million times this

Bunker wrote:

Worglock wrote:

Alpharius wrote:It wouldn't happen - Matt has nothing for me to 'win' and really, the solution here is very simple - ship the packages to me.

You've actually read my explanation post, right?

Is there something in there that isn't clear, or doesn't make sense?

Why you haven't filed criminal charges would be a good place to start.

This, this, a million times this

I cannot imagine a single person I hate enough to get the law involved in a similar situation. Even people I don't know - I would rather resolve the dispute on my own steam, even if it meant I would have to reimburse the other party far beyond what is fair or should be expected.

Architechnic wrote:Ok I wanted to stop reading after the Apharius posted because it was all the same.

I want it on record that I've done nothing to troll unless your understanding of the word is different form the correct one.

No one is accusing you of trolling, first off. What they are saying, however, is that it's ridiculous to come in here spouting off accusations and acting as if Redstarone is unsullied in this entire affair.

To the rest of the forum. I know some of you are banned from other forums, I know some of you have bad reports on place like Barter Town...

As untactful and crass as I may be, no. I'm actually not banned from other forums. I don't think I've ever actually done a trade/sale online--I don't like to. I'll mail stuff off for free every so often, if it's something someone really needs/has been searching for and I have multiples of.
But while I don't do trades relating to models--I do sell my used college textbooks. And let me tell you: When you get a "bad report" through misunderstandings on a place like Barter Town, you don't accuse the other party of "harassment"--even if you're in the right. You shut up, fix the problem and let the other party feel like they've "pulled one over on you".

Or, you do what Alpharius has done and call them out on their BS.

I have never once screwed over someone, lied to someone, or done wrong by anyone.

So you've got basic morals, a good upbringing, and have some decency. Congratulations?

Yes red and I bonded over some things. And we talk from time to time. Yes I know him better than I know any of you.

...What does that have to do with anything? I'm sorry, but I don't see the connection other than how whenever you see the reactions from the folks living next door to a brutal crime being committed by one of their neighbors. You know the ones---"He was such a nice person, so quiet and polite--we never knew he'd do something so terrible!".

To the people who called me a troll: I hope you see the irony, and realize my actual intent

To whiteknight for someone who's had his chance to make amends over years and yet hasn't? Yeah. We get that.

To those of you who were actually tactful and kind, especially Ma55ter, thank you for welcoming me to the site.
I'm sad to say this will be my last post on your forum. I'm sorry, but I do not feel welcome. I'm sad to say I've heard this from people in the past.

I'd say you'd be missed, but I don't like to lie.

I'm not defending RSO over Alpharius. I'm simply calling for them to resolve it out of the public.

Actually...that's exactly what you're doing, pal.

It's pretty clear that if this were going to be "resolved out of the public", it would have been done awhile ago. Calling RSO out is the best move Alpharius could have done in these circumstances; and RSO's own reaction pretty much hammered home the nail in the coffin that contained any perceived innocence.

If Alpharius is correct, then this is a felony; state lines do not matter. RSO has sent you most of what he owes as far as I know. And has been in contact with you. He wants you to call him. He told me this over the phone; he has provided you with his number. Feel free to use that. If Alpharius wishes to contact me, I will answer and freely give my own phone number.

While state lines do not matter in a felony mail fraud case; the investigative process does. It just isn't in the interest of the USPS, local law enforcement or FBI to pursue a case like this. Alpharius is pretty much SOL.

For the record when I say 'our forum' I mean 40kforums, as quoted in the first post.
I know RSO is looking to perhaps end the Pay it Forward group because of things like this.
I think it is a wonderful thing (hence why I have donated to it and even chosen some winners of my goods).

Good. Maybe he'll actually send out Alpharius' stuff since Pay It Forward won't be taking up oh so much of his precious time.

If he decides to end his involvement I will be taking it over. I hope you all can allow yourselves to see past any problems you have with him, and continue to support the community.
I hope you all have wonderful lives full of compassion, love, and insight.
-Arch

Or you could just can the whole project. The name's tainted, because it will be associated with him. Your name is just as tainted now for whiteknighting it up for him.

Nightwatch wrote:

Bunker wrote:

Worglock wrote:

Alpharius wrote:It wouldn't happen - Matt has nothing for me to 'win' and really, the solution here is very simple - ship the packages to me.

You've actually read my explanation post, right?

Is there something in there that isn't clear, or doesn't make sense?

Why you haven't filed criminal charges would be a good place to start.

This, this, a million times this

I cannot imagine a single person I hate enough to get the law involved in a similar situation. Even people I don't know - I would rather resolve the dispute on my own steam, even if it meant I would have to reimburse the other party far beyond what is fair or should be expected.

If only RSO felt the same way you do.

Sadly most internet scammers seem to think they're immune to the law.

This is one of the few times I agree with Kanluwen. Defending someone who is this far in the hole only ruins your own name.

Nightwatch wrote:

Bunker wrote:

Worglock wrote:

Alpharius wrote:It wouldn't happen - Matt has nothing for me to 'win' and really, the solution here is very simple - ship the packages to me.

You've actually read my explanation post, right?

Is there something in there that isn't clear, or doesn't make sense?

Why you haven't filed criminal charges would be a good place to start.

This, this, a million times this

I cannot imagine a single person I hate enough to get the law involved in a similar situation. Even people I don't know - I would rather resolve the dispute on my own steam, even if it meant I would have to reimburse the other party far beyond what is fair or should be expected.

Nightwatch pretty much summed it up perfectly.

The solution to all of this really is fairly simple - ship the stuff he owes me.

If he had done this anytime in the past 13 months, well, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all...

Nightwatch wrote:

Bunker wrote:

Worglock wrote:

Alpharius wrote:It wouldn't happen - Matt has nothing for me to 'win' and really, the solution here is very simple - ship the packages to me.

You've actually read my explanation post, right?

Is there something in there that isn't clear, or doesn't make sense?

Why you haven't filed criminal charges would be a good place to start.

This, this, a million times this

I cannot imagine a single person I hate enough to get the law involved in a similar situation. Even people I don't know - I would rather resolve the dispute on my own steam, even if it meant I would have to reimburse the other party far beyond what is fair or should be expected.

But if the other party has no interest in resolving the dispute, then what?

We have laws as a civilized society for a reason, and contrary to popular belive, it's not just to make lawyers rich.

Alpharius wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

Bunker wrote:

Worglock wrote:

Alpharius wrote:It wouldn't happen - Matt has nothing for me to 'win' and really, the solution here is very simple - ship the packages to me.

You've actually read my explanation post, right?

Is there something in there that isn't clear, or doesn't make sense?

Why you haven't filed criminal charges would be a good place to start.

This, this, a million times this

I cannot imagine a single person I hate enough to get the law involved in a similar situation. Even people I don't know - I would rather resolve the dispute on my own steam, even if it meant I would have to reimburse the other party far beyond what is fair or should be expected.

Nightwatch pretty much summed it up perfectly.

The solution to all of this really is fairly simple - ship the stuff he owes me.

If he had done this anytime in the past 13 months, well, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all...

And again, since you're obviously not going to get what you believe you're owed:

CALL
THE
POLICE
AND
HAVE
OFFICIAL
CHARGES
FILED

Refusing to do this is just sticking your head in the sand, and honestly my sympathy for you decreases every time you ignore the fact that this is the only way that you're going to recieve your end.

Architechnic wrote:I don't care who the person is, how well respected he is, or anything outside of the truth.

Here is the truth.

RSO owes many, MANY people things that are YEARS overdue in some cases.
RSO's only consistent delivery of promises is that he will bring up his wife and son as a shield against the word theft.
RSO claims to have no time, yet started a blog and still posts regularly elsewhere.
RSO claims he can't ship because he has no money, yet even when people offer him the money to ship, he finds excuses.
RSO owes, from what I can see from a brief Google of transaction reports on him, 1000's upon thousands of dollars worth of conversion pay and models to over a dozen people.
Examining RSO's timeline, he continued to take trades and transactions after the onset of his wife's supposed illness.

Here are some more truths for you.
When you take people's money, promising services and dates of delivery, then fail to delivery for WHATEVER reason, you are liable. Certainly after 2 years, it is theft.
Using your sick wife as an excuse for being a dirty thieving liar over and over again for 2 years while mentioning in emails you are going to game night, and starting blogs is bloody disgusting.
No one, and I mean no one, is so busy for 2 entire years that they cannot ship boxes out when shipping expenses are covered.
No one, and I mean no one, can fail to take pictures of 'completed' works for 2 years if they actually intended to.
No one, and I mean no one, has non-stop returned boxes that 'were posted' for 2 years.
No one, and I mean no one, can fail to produce a tracking number for tracked packages that were sent for 2 years.

Finally, no one, and I mean no one, should be expected to believe a word out of RSO's mouth, EVER AGAIN.

You want the above kind of statements to stop 'slandering' your buddy?

Get him to give everyone their models and money back, and believe me, we will all be perfectly happy to ignore him for the rest of our natural lives.

Your friend is a thief. Get over it. It may seem noble to you to defend him and wave the flag of justice, but if you really wanted justice, you would read the above again and realize you are on the wrong side.

Alpharius wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

Bunker wrote:

Worglock wrote:

Alpharius wrote:It wouldn't happen - Matt has nothing for me to 'win' and really, the solution here is very simple - ship the packages to me.

You've actually read my explanation post, right?

Is there something in there that isn't clear, or doesn't make sense?

Why you haven't filed criminal charges would be a good place to start.

This, this, a million times this

I cannot imagine a single person I hate enough to get the law involved in a similar situation. Even people I don't know - I would rather resolve the dispute on my own steam, even if it meant I would have to reimburse the other party far beyond what is fair or should be expected.

Nightwatch pretty much summed it up perfectly.

The solution to all of this really is fairly simple - ship the stuff he owes me.

If he had done this anytime in the past 13 months, well, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all...

And he apparently has no interest in doing so. Now what?

Worglock wrote:

But if the other party has no interest in resolving the dispute, then what?

We have laws as a civilized society for a reason, and contrary to popular belive, it's not just to make lawyers rich.

Yes, I totally agree. I'd say that the law is long overdue in this particular case. I was only trying to suggest the kind of attitude that would make someone want to hold off from the law for as long as possible: it really is a big, bloody mess when you get them involved, and for a lot of people, they'd rather take the less forceful road.

I would also encourage those who know people or are people who got scammed by RSO to all get in touch via a group email. Act together, easy for police to say oh 1300 hundred bucks isnt worth the trouble, harder to ignore 'hey now this guy owes 23 people 21000 bucks!!!'

MajorTom11 wrote:I would also encourage those who know people or are people who got scammed by RSO to all get in touch via a group email. Act together, easy for police to say oh 1300 hundred bucks isnt worth the trouble, harder to ignore 'hey now this guy owes 23 people 21000 bucks!!!'

Hey look. Tom gives good advice.

This is absurdly rare. And newsworthy. Someone fire off fireworks!

I kid Tom, I kid

However: this is the best advice.

Police in RSO's area won't look twice at a single instance of a guy who was scammed or says he was.

But if it's 5+ people, all with complete timelines and lists of what they were scammed out of? Suddenly, a case begins forming...

Bunker wrote:

Alpharius wrote:

Nightwatch wrote:

Bunker wrote:

Worglock wrote:

Alpharius wrote:It wouldn't happen - Matt has nothing for me to 'win' and really, the solution here is very simple - ship the packages to me.

You've actually read my explanation post, right?

Is there something in there that isn't clear, or doesn't make sense?

Why you haven't filed criminal charges would be a good place to start.

This, this, a million times this

I cannot imagine a single person I hate enough to get the law involved in a similar situation. Even people I don't know - I would rather resolve the dispute on my own steam, even if it meant I would have to reimburse the other party far beyond what is fair or should be expected.

Nightwatch pretty much summed it up perfectly.

The solution to all of this really is fairly simple - ship the stuff he owes me.

If he had done this anytime in the past 13 months, well, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all...

And again, since you're obviously not going to get what you believe you're owed:

CALL
THE
POLICE
AND
HAVE
OFFICIAL
CHARGES
FILED

Refusing to do this is just sticking your head in the sand, and honestly my sympathy for you decreases every time you ignore the fact that this is the only way that you're going to recieve your end.

As far as I know it has been attempted, the police told Alpharius it wasn't a large enough sum of money for them to get involved.