Poll |
 |
|
 |
Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 14:16:46
Subject: Re:Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
|
In agreement with Yak and the others, for tournaments I absolutely hate getting handed an army builder list. I respect the fact that you paid money and are making an effort to provide a legible, easy to use list, but it just isn't. Everytime I get handed one I find myself searching it for a minute or two before saying "can you just tell me the name of each unit and how many are in it".
I use microsoft word for my lists. I type up a template and reuse it when I change my list. It's broken down into Hq/Troop/Elite/etc., each subsection has a point total, etc. Then when I do each unit, I indent for the upgrades, and put the points costs for them. This makes (esp. in the case of transports) victory point totalling much much easier, because I just circle what you got from my list. It takes me ~5-10 minutes to do one of these from scratch, less if I'm just updating and moving a unit or two around.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 14:19:01
Subject: Re:Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents
|
targetawg wrote:Everytime I get handed one I find myself searching it for a minute or two before saying "can you just tell me the name of each unit and how many are in it".
This.
Absolutely. When someone has an army builder file, I end up asking them to walk me through their army and its models and what they have.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 15:36:08
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant
|
That's ridiculous.
AB is seriously the tournament jesus of army lists.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 16:08:42
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
|
I agree with Yak, Target, Dash, etc, though in somewhat less emphatic terms.
Overall a full AB printout does tend toward information overload, and kind of drowns the relevant details (how many meltaguns; what upgrades does the sgt have?) in chaff that I've got memorized or which is better found in the unit statline summary in the back of the codex. I need to know what units there are, how many guys are in each, what upgrades they have, how many points they cost, and what Force Org slot they're in. That's pretty much it. There is absolutely no need for that pertinent data to take multiple pages and be buried between statlines. Formatted properly it all easily fits on one page with plenty of white space for easy readability and quick scanning.
When it's a codex with a unit/force org layout you don't already know like the back of your hand (IG is the usual worst culprit), AB statline spam overload is even worse.
I have an army list template in Word I use, which is modeled on the army list format GW gave us with their Rogue Trader tournaments back in '99 or 2000. It breaks down all that stuff nice and clearly, and it still works great for me and my opponents.
That said, I like the AB tournament summary D-usa gave an example of. That looks fine. Back when I used to use AB I'd sometimes use the "print as text summary" function when I wanted a quickie army list without spending the ten minutes to format and prettify my Word document. That did the same job. AB's always had this option, as far as I can remember. Just too few people use it.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/12 16:10:07
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 16:16:21
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Like others, I find Army Builder to be difficult to read, and often times will miss things when in the rush of "my 2 hour timer is already running." I just ask my opponent to clarify what he has, or I read through the list aloud and let him confirm each one.
I much prefer getting a very simple army list in word or elsewhere, with each entry bolded, and details below it as its publisher requires ... that's to say, "10 Veterans with 3 Meltaguns in Chimera with Hull Heavy Flamer" ... if they want to parse out the deets below that for comprehensiveness' sake, fine ... but it's much clearer than AB.
The ironic thing is, you "trust" an AB file more, but the presentation is poor for tournament / fast play.
*shrug* ... like Mann, I'm far less emphatic in my objection.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 16:27:48
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant
|
This is clearly a case of the vocal minority of the internet voicing an opinion
I have trouble imagining a world where AB is more difficult to read than what a hand full of people who don't use AB pass off as army lists.
There is a new trend in the meta where players are trying to hide the stats and abilities of their army by not using AB.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 16:41:11
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
|
blood angel wrote:This is clearly a case of the vocal minority of the internet voicing an opinion
I have trouble imagining a world where AB is more difficult to read than what a hand full of people who don't use AB pass off as army lists.
There is a new trend in the meta where players are trying to hide the stats and abilities of their army by not using AB.
A trend of deceit in the meta!
I don't think so personally, I do mine to streamline it. You'll hear me ask before EVERY game in a GT, this sequence of questions:
-Can I get a copy of your list? Here's one of mine
-If you have any questions about anything, let me know
If they then say or indicate they haven't played guard much (rare nowadays) I go through a quick summary of what each unit is/does. Which units score, which units have meltas, etc etc.
I personally really dislike AB lists, as I said, but I won't hassle my opponent for it. I still appreciate them bringing a printed list that they obviously put effort/money into making sure is "legit" like I said before, it just isn't so use-able for me in game. I never knew there was a "summary" style army builder printout, I've only ever been given the one with everything listed that gets a bit hairy to read. If I got the abbreviated one, I'd be stoked, thats as good as a word list.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/12 16:41:44
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 16:41:35
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
I don't know why you need to speak in hyperbole or condescension. I don't think at least most of us have been very condescending about it in the reverse. Like I said, I'm not emphatic about it ... it's not like I'm going to prohibit Army Builder at the NOVA ... hell, we'll probably have a more formalized computer/print option this year for it, b/c it IS reliable and accurate and most people know how to use it.
I think most of us are simply saying that the way the army lists are broken out in the AB print-outs is more difficult to read through than a very straight forward listing of units on a piece of plain jane paper, via word. *shrug*
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 16:49:51
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
|
I use Army Builder, with a twist. I save it as an HTML file, then reopen that with Word.
I remove all the BS (unit type: Infantry, Combat tactics, Eternal warrior, etc) that everyone already knows and just leave the meat of the unit: numbers, types of weapons, points cost (I also add in the KP cost for that unit per whatever scenario rules are being used). On some occasions I'll even drop a small pic of the unit next to the writeup to make it absolutely clear what is a tac squad and what are Sternguard.
Then I page-Break it so you have the Army itself on 1 or 2 pages and all the "stuff" on their own pages.
I then print a full copy for myself and print out 5-6 copies of just the Army List section to provide Judges/opponents.
Also makes it easier emailing your list to a TO ahead of time, as some TOs want that info early to verify.
It may look like alot of extra work, but it also helps reinforce in my mind what this list has and is correct. Plus i sometimes get nice bonus check for having such a clean list thats easy to read/follow that the opponent gets to keep.
|
Life isn't fair. But wouldn't it be worse if Life were fair, and all of the really terrible things that happen to us were because we deserved them?
M. Cole.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 17:00:38
Subject: Re:Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
|
I use Battlescribe for my lists. Free and you can edit army files pretty easily if you don't like how the source files were created or if you find errors. List output is decent as well:
Sample List (1845pts)
1850pt Tyranids 5th Ed (Nov, 2010) Roster
Selections:
HQ (280pts)
Hive Tyrant (280pts)
Adrenal Glands, Lash Whip and Bonesword, Leech Essence, Old Adversary, Paroxysm, Twin-linked Devourers with Brainleech Worms, Wings
Elites (300pts)
Hive Guard Brood (100pts)
2x Hive Guard
Hive Guard Brood (100pts)
2x Hive Guard
Hive Guard Brood (100pts)
2x Hive Guard
Troops (653pts)
Genestealer Brood (204pts)
12x Genestealer
12x Toxin Sacs
Genestealer Brood (204pts)
12x Genestealer
12x Toxin Sacs
Termagant Brood (50pts)
10x Fleshborer, 10x Termagant
Tervigon (195pts)
Adrenal Glands, Catalyst, Claws and Teeth, Cluster Spines, Toxin Sacs
Fast Attack (192pts)
Gargoyle Brood (192pts)
24x Gargoyle
24x Adrenal Glands, 24x Toxin sacs
Heavy Support (420pts)
Trygon (210pts)
Adrenal Glands
Trygon (210pts)
Adrenal Glands
You can have it display individual wargear points costs (which I didn't here for obvious reasons). I had to do some editing to recreate the printed forms format on the forum as it doesn't translate well, and looks much better on the physically printed sheet (an example is the indents that I can't do in a post).
|
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 17:02:41
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)
|
I vastly prefer AB. Mostly because the info is there. In fact I've played in so many tournaments in the last few years that itl ooks funny to me if it's not in AB which causes me the same problems it seems to cause some of the people here.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/12 17:04:37
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 17:13:58
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
|
Hulksmash wrote:I vastly prefer AB. Mostly because the info is there. In fact I've played in so many tournaments in the last few years that itl ooks funny to me if it's not in AB which causes me the same problems it seems to cause some of the people here.
No posting from you till I see your batreps from Adepticon!!
And you can have all the rules, statlines, and info you want with Battlescribe. I just typically turn that option off in printing, but I do understand being used to a particular format.
|
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 17:34:14
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents
|
MVBrandt wrote:
I think most of us are simply saying that the way the army lists are broken out in the AB print-outs is more difficult to read through than a very straight forward listing of units on a piece of plain jane paper, via word. *shrug*
When you take 3 pages to print out what could be typed in 10 lines of text on half a page....yep. I don't like Army Builder.
I made one of my customary weekend trips a month or two ago to a new store, and upon arrival at the store, was informed that my list wasn't acceptable because it wasn't in Army Builder format. I use a free excel program that has everything linked together, so you can input units and point costs and get a very sexy summary page of your army.
They said that there were too many people who were cheating in their lists, so they made AB mandatory. I passed over a copy of my list and said, "Well, I have not the foggiest how to use Army Builder, but have at it." 45 minutes later, they had an 1870 point version of my 2k point army from my list. And were like, "Aren't you glad that we put it through Army Builder?"
For at LEAST five seconds I debated adding another 130 points to my army, then conscience caught up and I pointed out that they didn't add vehicle wargear into AB to reflect what was on my list.
I thought it was pretty funny. Mandatory AB to prevent cheating. =p As if.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 17:44:06
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Infiltrating Oniwaban
|
Dashofpepper wrote:
When you take 3 pages to print out what could be typed in 10 lines of text on half a page....yep. I don't like Army Builder.
As has already been demonstrated, AB output is fully customizable. You don't have to get 3 pages if you don't want three pages. The tournament output is very lean. It's not the fault of the program that people choose not to use it.
45 minutes later, they had an 1870 point version of my 2k point army from my list. And were like, "Aren't you glad that we put it through Army Builder?"
For at LEAST five seconds I debated adding another 130 points to my army, then conscience caught up and I pointed out that they didn't add vehicle wargear into AB to reflect what was on my list.
So the guy is stupid and that's AB's fault?
|
The Imperial Navy, A Galatic Force for Good. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 17:50:18
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
|
The point is that Army Builder is not a shield against cheating, nor is it a guarantee of accuracy. It has to be used competently and appropriately.
Word and Excel can certainly be used to cheat too. Neither AB nor home-making a list is actually any protection against that.
It just comes down to ease of use/readability. Which is going to be to a large extent a question of personal preference, not a judgment that one is inherently superior to another. Each of us is, of course, perfectly free to describe the reasons he prefers one option over another.
|
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 18:14:19
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
[ARTICLE MOD]
Fixture of Dakka
|
But using AB is frequently seen as a stamp of non-cheating. Very few people will make any sort of effort to validate an AB list. In a way, that means it is easier to cheat with AB.
If I hand someone a list, it has every point expenditure broken down separately. If I hand someone an AB list, it has the total cost for a unit.
With the lengths that the sort of people who need to cheat at a game of toy soldiers go to (loading dice, doctoring tape measures, I'm sure others can add more examples), it's not hard to believe that they'd tweak an AB file here or there.
What's more, how many people would even think to check it, because of how legit AB is considered.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 18:40:03
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Sinister Chaos Marine
|
Personally I just use TextPad. I guess I'm pretty anal about my list being clear and nicely edited for readability but I wouldn't expect that of everyone and if the choice is between AB and a hastily thrown together word document then I'll gladly take the AB list.
Dashofpepper wrote:
They said that there were too many people who were cheating in their lists, so they made AB mandatory. I passed over a copy of my list and said, "Well, I have not the foggiest how to use Army Builder, but have at it." 45 minutes later, they had an 1870 point version of my 2k point army from my list. And were like, "Aren't you glad that we put it through Army Builder?"
At a Team Tournament I attended last year the opposite happened to me. They put all the army lists into AB to check them for accuracy and I guess mine came in 10 points over. I was pulled aside and after I personally added up the points on the sheet in front of the judge they found out that they had incorrectly entered my list into AB.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/12 18:40:16
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 18:49:44
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents
|
Kymera wrote:
At a Team Tournament I attended last year the opposite happened to me. They put all the army lists into AB to check them for accuracy and I guess mine came in 10 points over. I was pulled aside and after I personally added up the points on the sheet in front of the judge they found out that they had incorrectly entered my list into AB.
I had that happen to me last year at a tournament - they took my list, added it up and said, "You're 30 points over." Now, my excel 40k thingy auto-adds points together, and I trust excel over human error. The TO got someone else to check it and said, "You're 30 points over." They both double and triple checked my list and got +30 points every time. Turns out that every time they were putting 255 instead of 225 for my burnas....
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 19:03:13
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne
|
I will also state that I don't like Army Builder. The actual unit entries are too cluttered, especially for units that have a ton of options/upgrades.
The summary list at the bottom with stats is kinda nice, but Word (or Excel if I want to be fancy) is where it's at.
The only issue I ever run into as far as army lists (myself included), is something like this:
I used to write:
8 Berzerkers (238)
1x Champ with Powerfist
2x Plasma Pistols
Sometimes people would ask, is it 8 guys or 9? (Clearly it's 8, because that's Khorne's number!) I would even forget sometimes (except that I know I always use Khorne's favored number).
So now I write:
Berzerker Squad (208)
7x Berzerkers
1x Skull Champion with Powerfist
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 19:05:47
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
|
I use the phrase "including" for the champ, or just just the upgrade of one model to champion with the points cost for said upgrade. But yeah, absolutely, it's important to make it clear. I have that issue sometimes with AB, since it lists the sgt or champ separately, but adds the transport into the squad size. WTF?
|
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 20:16:49
Subject: Re:Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
|
When I write army catalogues for Battlescribe, I usually try to make sure that sarges and upgrade characters are a seperate entry for for their options, but it doesn't always work out with the methods you have to use to get everything to work.
|
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 21:00:40
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
On a Canoptek Spyder's Waiting List
|
Dashofpepper wrote:
I had that happen to me last year at a tournament - they took my list, added it up and said, "You're 30 points over." Now, my excel 40k thingy auto-adds points together, and I trust excel over human error. The TO got someone else to check it and said, "You're 30 points over." They both double and triple checked my list and got +30 points every time. Turns out that every time they were putting 255 instead of 225 for my burnas....
Which is why font selection is important
|
Can you read my avatar? |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/12 21:40:55
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
Peoria, IL
|
I’ll take AB format over most anything because it is consistent.. flaws and all. AB lists and data files certainly have issues. Folks tend to print the verbose version instead of the streamlined summaries and generally it takes a bit to get all the kinks worked out with a new codex release file. But it is a tool and not a replacement for common sense, double checking and verification by oneself.
The AB station at AdeptiCon defaulted to print the tourney summary list and got a ton of use over the weekend.
I’ll take a format that is viewed and used by a large number of people with multiple sets of eyes verse trusting someone managed late last night or rather 15 minutes before the tourney to transpose the correct value from codex to spreadsheet cell and that they actually understand excel formulas or basic math to calculate the correct value.
Regardless, the important thing is that your army list be clear, readable, and provide all the information needed to your opponent. AB does that. Might be information overload for some but it beats as an organizer getting 100+ different formats, fonts, and layouts.
Course, it must be said that something printed is a thousand times better than hand written.
And, yes folks abuse minimalist army lists, going so far as to not documenting important options, equipment and details. For some people who are looking for any game edge possible AB lists give to much “information” to their opponents. Sad but true.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/12 21:50:58
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/13 09:50:19
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Mann - while AB has always had the ability to output to text, it was, until recently, the "full" text format. They added in the tournament format version, which is vastly simplified, at the request of users.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/13 13:16:43
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
|
I'm fairly certain it had the option to "print as text summary" ten years ago. Perhaps I misremember. The last time I was using it regularly was back when the Dakka store was open, which was in 2004, IIRC.
|
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/13 14:09:51
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth
|
I think you're right Mann, just that the format nos is referring to is even more streamlined. Or at least that's how I'm understanding it.
Given that option, I may in fact pick up AB again and set that to be the default print setting (if possible). My only discoruagement from before was having to manually check off a bunch of things I didn't want included, and usually have to trial-and-error a number of prints before getting one with the right amount of information. I.e., taking off the chaff but not the critical stuff...
I do like AB's consistency, and when I made the poll I was thinking #2 would get more votes. Currently it's only beating out "Other"  but from the sounds of it, it really is one of the options that tournament veterans prefer. Maybe AB should make that print option more obvious (or even include a pop-up message when printing) so that more people are aware of it and/or remember to use it.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/13 15:23:26
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents
|
muwhe wrote:I’ll take a format that is viewed and used by a large number of people with multiple sets of eyes verse trusting someone managed late last night or rather 15 minutes before the tourney to transpose the correct value from codex to spreadsheet cell and that they actually understand excel formulas or basic math to calculate the correct value.
The thing is....excel files aren't simply excel spreadsheets that players create that you need to trust to link correctly.
There's a free excel list builder floating around the internet (its what I use) - there are no cells to modify, no math to do, no excel formulas to create - you just plug in your information and it is already all done.
And the biggest draw for me is that the "Printer Friendly Summary" generates a very nice, crisp and easy to read/skim army list. Copying it into HTML doesn't line everything up like it shows on the spreadsheet unfortunately.
Justin Hilderbrandt's Purple People Eaters
HQ
0 0
Haemonculi Shattershard 65
Troops
Warriors, 5 45
Warriors, 5 45
, 0
, 0
, 0
, 0
Elites
True Born, 3 3x Blasters Venom Extra Splinter Cannon 146
True Born, 3 3x Blasters Venom Extra Splinter Cannon 146
True Born, 3 3x Blasters Venom Extra Splinter Cannon 146
Fast Attack
, 60
, 0
, 0
Heavy Support
Ravager, 1 3x Dark Lances Flickerfield 115
Ravager, 1 3x Dark Lances Flickerfield 115
Ravager, 1 3x Dark Lances Flickerfield 115
Points Summary:
HQ: 65
Troops: 90
Elites: 438
Fast Attack: 60
Heavy Support: 345
Total: 998
I didn't do any of that math. I just put my units and point cost in.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/13 15:24:29
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/14 11:14:54
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Mannahnin wrote:I'm fairly certain it had the option to "print as text summary" ten years ago. Perhaps I misremember. The last time I was using it regularly was back when the Dakka store was open, which was in 2004, IIRC.
Which is what I said, it has HAD a text format for ages, but they ADDED a "tournament" text output that removes the extra stuff you dont need.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/19 19:37:36
Subject: Re:Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Death-Dealing Devastator
Omaha, NE
|
BOLS put up this gem today about this very question: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/04/40k-tournament-etiquette-meta-tactics.html
I love the part where he says guys like me, who use excel, are deliberately trying to screw over other players:
If someone at a tournament is not showing you his full list with stats, abilities and descriptions he is intentionally trying to hide something from you. There will be some exceptions to this but be on the look out. If you see this happening you’re about to have a game with someone who will likely trying to take advantage of you.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/04/19 19:43:49
Subject: Army List Format For Tournaments
|
 |
Dispassionate Imperial Judge
|
I use Battlescribe. Much simpler to read than AB, and you can use it on a Mac....
|
|
|
 |
 |
|