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Fafnir wrote:But at that point, you're probably better off just taking a full shooty retinue.

Why? the shooty options you can take aren't as mobile, and can't take weapons that complement a cannon INQ. Except for maybe storm bolter henchies (7 points for a BS3 stormbolter? sounds good to me).

Draigo and a libby with might/quicksilver/sanctuary/warprift/shrouding
2 psy riflemen dreads
2 10 man pally squads, with 4 pcannons per squad, and 2 falchions per squad.

2000 points.

GK pally setup would look like:
Pcannon/sword
pcannon/halberd
pcannon/hammer
pcannon/falchion
swordx2
halberd
hammerx2
falchion

So its almost a perfect would allocation, with the exception of the 1 extra sword and hammer. If you combat squad, there is 1 hammer and 1 sword in every unit, so perfect wound allocation.

This is basicly a silly list, and it will require a great commander to ensure your small number of units get where they need to go. That said, scout should help greatly, as you only need to roll a 2 on the d3 to get 4 combat squads of pallies advancing. Fear the s8 shooting weapons, and try to stay in cover with shrouding I suppose.

DarthSpader wrote:havent played with them in game... but i think a core of palladins plus librarians, with additonal termies or other GK might be a good army. the thing im messing with now, is how much can that unit of palladins deal with in a turn? and can they survive an entire army shooting at them? plus, delevering them to the enemy is an issue as well. deepstrike is an idea, but otherwise termie mech units are expensive points wise and fill up a list pretty fast

Paladin squads are the command squads of the grey knights.
In apocalypse, that would be awesome.

Every weapon can be MC in a paladin unit.
Heavy weapons are 2/5 just like purifiers.

Maybe Paladins should take 2 MC psycannons per 5 members of the squad.

80% of the time at least one of the 4 shots on a MC psycannon will miss, resulting in getting to shoot another shot.
MC Psycannons on paladins will average 4.8 shots per turn, or 3.6 hits per turn.
2 MC psycannons will average 9.6 shots per turn, or 7.2 hits per turn.

2 Paladins with MC psycannons using relentless to fire in heavy 4 put out more hits than 4 purifiers with psycannons firing in assault 2 mode.

They can pack some serious dakka, and MC psycannon paladins can still take a halberd at no additional cost

The problem is deploying them. Walking them across the battlefield seems like a bad idea.

Which is why you can deep strike them, or have them outflank. And walking them across the table isn't really that huge a deal if you have a Librarian with the Shrouding nearby.

Honersstodnt wrote:I really, REALLY want to make an all-paladin army...

I'm just wondering if its a viable army build at all? I think if I included a librarian in the army, I would have some decent anti-tank... str6 terminators with 2d6 armor penetration should be able to do some serious damage in hand to hand against vehicles, and now that psycannons are str7 rending, they are better than lascannons at taking out vehicles.

Anyone have any opinions?

All paladin? sounds awesome.
In apocalypse, you could have just paladins, but in a normal game, 1HQ, 2 TROOPS. So you could have all paladin, with some troops and a HQ.

Grey Templar wrote:They really need support.


they also should hug cover as they will draw anti-tank fire which will chew through them fairly quickly.



I wouldn't reccomend a Paladin army under 2k as you really need that many points to get the proper support and equipment.


a sample list would be

HQ
Draigo 275 pts
Librarian(Quicksilver, Might of Titan, Shrouding, Sanctuary) 170 pts

Troops
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions, Brotherhood banner) 400 pts
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions) 375 pts
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions) 375 pts

Elites
Vindicare 145 pts

Heavy Support
Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 135 pts
Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 135 pts
Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 135 pts


2000 on the money.

The only problem with paladin lists like this, is model count. Yes the paladins are pretty tough dudes, but in a 2k point list, including the 2 HQs you only have 21 bodies on the table. Thats not alot of bodies at all. Specially considering a countering Ork horde would probably crush them just with weight of numbers. Id throw boyz at that list all day, Id take some fearless wounds just knowing that in a couple turns the PK in there will do his job. And thats just the troops choice in my army.



But thats not saying it wouldnt work

solarmacharius wrote:

Honersstodnt wrote:I really, REALLY want to make an all-paladin army...

I'm just wondering if its a viable army build at all? I think if I included a librarian in the army, I would have some decent anti-tank... str6 terminators with 2d6 armor penetration should be able to do some serious damage in hand to hand against vehicles, and now that psycannons are str7 rending, they are better than lascannons at taking out vehicles.

Anyone have any opinions?

All paladin? sounds awesome.
In apocalypse, you could have just paladins, but in a normal game, 1HQ, 2 TROOPS. So you could have all paladin, with some troops and a HQ.

Ever heard of Kaldar Draigo?



He's so frakkin awsiome he makes Paladins troops

Don't forget to master craft those psycannons. Very cheap upgrade that will get a lot of uses.

I think if you wnat to do this you need to saturate him with targets, so he can't kill all of them. If you meet up with paladins I know where the first 10 lascannon shots go.

Grey Templar wrote:well, i can fluff the Paladin squads to 10 man

a minimum army with 3 Landraiders and 2 Vendreds for autocannon support is as follows.

HQ
Draigo 275 pts
Librarian(Quicksilver, Might of Titan, Shrouding, Sanctuary) 170 pts

Troops
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions, Brotherhood banner) 400 pts
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions) 375 pts
6 palidins(2 psycannons, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions) 375 pts

Elites
Ven Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 195 pts
Ven Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 195 pts
Vindicare 145 pts


Heavy Support
Landraider Crusader (Warp Stabilization field, Extra Armor) 285 pts
Landraider Crusader (Warp Stabilization field, Extra Armor) 285 pts
Landraider Crusader (Warp Stabilization field, Extra Armor) 285 pts


2985 pts total.


might actually fare pretty well.

I liked the army... looks pretty good. But i would make it different:


HQ
Draigo 275 pts

Elites
Vindicare (145)

Troops
6 palidins(2 Incinerators, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions, Brotherhood banner) 360 pts
6 palidins(2 Incinerators, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions) 335 pts
6 palidins(2 Incinerators, 1 Deamonhammer, 2 Halbards, 1 pair of Falchions) 335 pts

Fast Attack
Storm Raven (Multi-Melta) 205 pts
Storm Raven (Multi-Melta) 205 pts
Storm Raven (Multi-Melta) 205 pts

Heavy Support
Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 135 pts
Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 135 pts
Dreadnought(2 Tl-autocannons, Psybolts) 135 pts

Total: 615+405+670+360+275+145 (2570)

With Storm Ravens you dont need the lib, and with Multi-Melta on Ravens, you dont need so much anti-tank. Dreads do the works against almost every fragile small tank around there. To end it, paladins have Incinerator (S6 AP4, for 5 points) to deal with hordes, and lots of power weapons to deal with elites. Vindicare stay somewhere, killing "target problem". Draigo can replace one Paladin or baby sit the Vindicare...

Problem with that list is that av12 is not hard to deal with. Many armys can pop all 6 of your av12 vees in 1 turn. The preceding list had really tough vehicles, with land raiders and ven dreads, meaning that the weight of many 2500 point list's shooting will be largely inneffective.

With that all said though, If you want termies in raiders, I suggest BA. Their termies, with FNP and furious charge, deal much more damage, fast combi-preds are as good or better than dakka dreads in many situations, and the assault marines are fast and cheap scoring bodies.

I think paladins have some serious potential, more so than diversified nobz. And I LOVE diversified nobz. You just have to use them like nobz. Give them a transport and drive them in behind the main force. Then use them like a melon baller to scoop out all the delicious innards of the enemy army.

Oh my, if you could only take psycannons without having 5+ man....siiiiiiiiiiighhhhhhh

gpfunk wrote:I think paladins have some serious potential, more so than diversified nobz. And I LOVE diversified nobz. You just have to use them like nobz. Give them a transport and drive them in behind the main force. Then use them like a melon baller to scoop out all the delicious innards of the enemy army.

5 Paladins: 275 pts
5 Nobz: 100 pts
5 MANz: 200 pts

Paladin transport: 250 pts
MA/Nobz transport: 35-125 pts

The problem is that the point cost makes it impossible to use Paladins like Nobz. If you've got Palas in a transport, there is no 'main force' to drive behind--more than 500 pts of very modestly-sized units are in that one vehicle.

3 MANz in a Trukk by contrast cost 150 and are still very potent against anything but a dedicated assault unit.

Even 20 Nobz with 100 pts of banners and power klaws in a Battlewagon (which is a monstrously fighty unit) "only" runs around 650 pts, and that unit would kill the crap out of an equivalent value of Paladins through sheer volume of d00ds.

Paladins sqauds suck and get roadblocked easily.

suck, no


roadblocked, yes.


Paladins are a very tough army to use properly and will be a proper challange for anyone trying to make them work.

Fafnir wrote:But at that point, you're probably better off just taking a full shooty retinue.

But the inquisitor can run with a normal GK squad, adding his psycannon with relentless to the firepower, and provide +1 str with hammerhand. He has his advantages.

Issue is Draigo pally armies are stupid expensive pointswise; and you don't get much on the table. Plus, meltas, dark lances, plasma and lascannons will still own your termis pretty hard

rovian wrote:Paladins sqauds suck and get roadblocked easily.

From my experience, 'roadblocks' don't tend to last too long against Paladins. And the more you feed them, the more they make their value back.

And people keep forgetting that you can outflank them. That's pretty important too.

They are pretty cool in kp too, because you will proabably have half of your opponants kill points. The Pally army i've been tossing around is 2000 points, and only 7 kill points. So your opponant pretty much has to table you to win.