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popsicle im on your side saying this list is pretty good, i would still drop some paladins to take dreadknights, they are scary lol

If, when you say it's for fun, you mean you don't care if it wins, then yeah, it could be very fun. Who doesn't like playing 21 superheroes v. the world?

But it does suck as much as some people suggest. Anything fast and anything with S8+ and AP2- (read: melta; ordinance; Dark Eldar) will rip you up.

The squad without Draigo will eat S8 fire until it's dead. That isn't very long, because it has nobody with eternal warrior to suck up S8 shots.

I mean, dang. Marbo could kill 2/3 of a squad easily. IIRC he costs as much as a naked Paladin.

Granted, it has its bad match-ups. Doesn't everything?

As for Dreadknights... if they were unchanged from the leaked PDF, then, for sure, I'd take them. But they got nerfed, and that was a disappointment. So, nah.

Yeah, dreadknights are horrifically underpowered. Uuuurgh, I feel dirty just saying it...

We get that its a cheese/fun list. Well done, you said to yourself "hey, the biggest things in the army can be troops if I take the other biggest thing in the army! I bet dakka hasn't thought of that before!" and got your typey-type on.

Unfortunately, nobody cares. If you find a friend willing to make a 1750 gauntspam army and fight in a narrow corridor, you'll probably be able to re-enact some moments in the ridiculously stupid Grey Knights fluff at the start of the codex.

However, silly fluff lists and character backgrounds don't deal with 9-vendetta armies, and your plan of deep striking onto anything that can hurt them is incredibly flawed.

All in all, well done in taking "super terminators are troops with Draigo" and "FoC needs 1 HQ and 2 troops" and putting the ideas in a blender, leaving it on for 10 minutes and pouring the resulting mixture all over your keyboard. The interwebs commend you on your immense efforts and outstanding intellect.

Well, it is a fun list, but will have difficulty as far as mobility goes. Not sure if they have DS, but will definately struggle against transport heavy DE. Enemy mobility will be very hard for you to counter, even with a 30" range on your psycannons, DE transports can skirt around you and injure many of the GK, granted you are resiliant to small arms fire, but the Darklight weapons can shred a few paladins, as they deny your 2+ save, forcing you to rely on your 5++ while ingoring FnP as well.

Without fast units, your orginal army will suffer.

TehScat wrote:Yeah, dreadknights are horrifically underpowered. Uuuurgh, I feel dirty just saying it...

We get that its a cheese/fun list. Well done, you said to yourself "hey, the biggest things in the army can be troops if I take the other biggest thing in the army! I bet dakka hasn't thought of that before!" and got your typey-type on.

Unfortunately, nobody cares. If you find a friend willing to make a 1750 gauntspam army and fight in a narrow corridor, you'll probably be able to re-enact some moments in the ridiculously stupid Grey Knights fluff at the start of the codex.

However, silly fluff lists and character backgrounds don't deal with 9-vendetta armies, and your plan of deep striking onto anything that can hurt them is incredibly flawed.

All in all, well done in taking "super terminators are troops with Draigo" and "FoC needs 1 HQ and 2 troops" and putting the ideas in a blender, leaving it on for 10 minutes and pouring the resulting mixture all over your keyboard. The interwebs commend you on your immense efforts and outstanding intellect.

Troll much? That's what it's called, IIRC, when you have nothing constructive to say, and just want to provoke a flame war.

Footsloggin: Yeah, mobility is always an issue with Terminator lists. I know, as I currently play Deathwing!

I'm not trolling you. I'm trying to make you realise what you've done. You've taken the most expensive models with the most upgrades possible, so there are 21 units in the entire list, and had an orgasm. Now, after changing your pants, you decided that you should tell everyone else about it.

Well, guess what? Its not even new. There are lots of draigo and paladin spam lists out there, and some of them are quite effective. They don't just go all-out on 21 models, but they use draigo's grand strategy to make other units, such as purifiers, dreadknights and vindicares, scoring in objective games, giving the paladins a lot more freedom on the field. There are even battle reports in the relative forum, actual armies that have been made and played, with varied outcomes.

Just by calling the thread "Dragiowing Cheese", playing off Deathwing terminator lists, but somehow assuming it will be so overpowered as to be cheesy, and how your first few responses were actual gameplay ideas and tactics for it, I'm going to call you out and say you believe this list WAS at least somewhat competitive, not against every list for sure, but when you came and and were like "lololol its just a fun list guys chill" that was one hell of a lie. The list is clearly funny, but you didn't think it was a joke list.

Well, I'm not hoping to start a flame war. I don't care for it, I'm going to sleep soon. But the list you posted isn't new, isn't good, isn't original, isn't outstanding in any way. In fact, everyone here has the same attitude I have, they're just sugar coating their responses because they don't want you to get all super defensive.

Posting a list like this shows immaturity, and a vast underestimation of the internet's power as a group to generate ideas like this. Its just that everyone else who had the same idea as you, actually made some decent lists out of them. Yours is just stupid, its there to prove a point, to make a joke, but I'm afraid the joke is on you.

I don't really see why you've bothered master crafting 4 weapons in each squad. Why not just take psybolt ammo instead which really benefits larger units and helps deal with your issue of an opponent just shooting you to death or you getting swamped by a Horde army.

As others have suggested the list is not remotely competitive and those paladins won't even do well in assault against say TH/SS Terminators. Anything that can throw out a decent amount of S8+ stuff is going to cause you huge issues.

Your tactical idea is not a great one. Deepstriking 10 Terminators is asking to mishap, against other Grey Knights it is almost a gaurantee. Whilst coraling the objective simply acheives nothing as flyers will just fly over your line and Mech will just tank shock through it. Probably on turn 5 when they want to. You're at best playing for a draw as you're only going after 1 objective (or are you splitting your force in 2 to make it easier for your opponent to deal with).

I think you need to have another go at this.

TehScat wrote:

Flingitnow wrote:I don't really see why you've bothered master crafting 4 weapons in each squad. Why not just take psybolt ammo instead which really benefits larger units and helps deal with your issue of an opponent just shooting you to death or you getting swamped by a Horde army.

Because he didn't read the rules for them. He said "OMG Draigo makes paladins troops" and immediately took every upgrade he knew to get to 1750. Its not a list, its an experiment in addition.

He took them as master crafted so he could use the wound allocation rules and allowing him to put a wound on every model befor 1 has to die, Its a very normal tactic to do when able eg nob bikers.

theonetyrant wrote:

TehScat wrote:

Flingitnow wrote:I don't really see why you've bothered master crafting 4 weapons in each squad. Why not just take psybolt ammo instead which really benefits larger units and helps deal with your issue of an opponent just shooting you to death or you getting swamped by a Horde army.

Because he didn't read the rules for them. He said "OMG Draigo makes paladins troops" and immediately took every upgrade he knew to get to 1750. Its not a list, its an experiment in addition.

He took them as master crafted so he could use the wound allocation rules and allowing him to put a wound on every model befor 1 has to die, Its a very normal tactic to do when able eg nob bikers.

This.

It is a list. Perhaps you haven't taken any time to think about the specifics of what I'm proposing, and instead put every inch of your brain matter into slandering and verbally slaughtering both me, as and individual, and my list. From your above comment, it certainly seems that way.

FlingitNow wrote:As others have suggested the list is not remotely competitive and those paladins won't even do well in assault against say TH/SS Terminators. Anything that can throw out a decent amount of S8+ stuff is going to cause you huge issues.

Your tactical idea is not a great one. Deepstriking 10 Terminators is asking to mishap, against other Grey Knights it is almost a gaurantee. Whilst coraling the objective simply acheives nothing as flyers will just fly over your line and Mech will just tank shock through it. Probably on turn 5 when they want to. You're at best playing for a draw as you're only going after 1 objective (or are you splitting your force in 2 to make it easier for your opponent to deal with).

I think you need to have another go at this.

It's not meant to be a competitive list.

There won't be any room left for flyers or jump infantry to jump over me and contest. They'll tank shock? Then I'll death-or-glory with a Hammer. Doesn't bother me if he dies; the other 9 are still firmly in control of the objective.

Easier. It's still not a walk in the park, felling 10 Paladins - and possibly Draigo, too - when they're pouring Psy into you. Granted, it's not fantastic, but they're sturdier than a lot of the things you'll find holding objectives in Cap & Control.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not, with the above points, painting the picture that it's competitive, and that it can deal with these situations. I'm just trying to offer that there's always a fair chance of things working out. I say again, it's not a competitive list.

TehScat wrote:I'm not trolling you. I'm trying to make you realise what you've done. You've taken the most expensive models with the most upgrades possible, so there are 21 units in the entire list, and had an orgasm. Now, after changing your pants, you decided that you should tell everyone else about it.

Well, guess what? Its not even new. There are lots of draigo and paladin spam lists out there, and some of them are quite effective. They don't just go all-out on 21 models, but they use draigo's grand strategy to make other units, such as purifiers, dreadknights and vindicares, scoring in objective games, giving the paladins a lot more freedom on the field. There are even battle reports in the relative forum, actual armies that have been made and played, with varied outcomes.

Just by calling the thread "Dragiowing Cheese", playing off Deathwing terminator lists, but somehow assuming it will be so overpowered as to be cheesy, and how your first few responses were actual gameplay ideas and tactics for it, I'm going to call you out and say you believe this list WAS at least somewhat competitive, not against every list for sure, but when you came and and were like "lololol its just a fun list guys chill" that was one hell of a lie. The list is clearly funny, but you didn't think it was a joke list.

Well, I'm not hoping to start a flame war. I don't care for it, I'm going to sleep soon. But the list you posted isn't new, isn't good, isn't original, isn't outstanding in any way. In fact, everyone here has the same attitude I have, they're just sugar coating their responses because they don't want you to get all super defensive.

Posting a list like this shows immaturity, and a vast underestimation of the internet's power as a group to generate ideas like this. Its just that everyone else who had the same idea as you, actually made some decent lists out of them. Yours is just stupid, its there to prove a point, to make a joke, but I'm afraid the joke is on you.

Perhaps I should have said, "It's a fun list, so it doesn't need to be competitive!". As for you knowing what I was thinking when I posted... hats off to you, sir.

I posted with gameplay ideas and tactics... because I do intend to use the list. It's for fun, but that doesn't mean I intend to just line them up, and see what happens.

Immaturity? Why? Because it's not competitive? Because there isn't some 4+4 list-building framework and intricate deployment scheme?

Yeah, it's stupid. The difference between you and I, is that I can laugh at it.

Nighty night.

Not a GK player, but what happens when you face something like 3 vindi's?

Any highly mobile fast moving army?



Seems the list can only kill slow moving footsloggers.
and in reasonable numbers.

Granted, Vindicators would be a bad match-up indeed, as would Eldar or Deldar. That being said, all the S7 has a fair chance of downing Raiders and Ravagers. Grav tanks... a little more difficult.

Your psycannons and stormbolters are range 24". You can move 6", so your threat range is 30". Any kid with a 36" range AP2 weapon wins by default. You can't expect people to *want* to go near your squads - if I was up against a squad that cost over a thousand points with Draigo in it, I'd keep my distance. Lascannons and Lances will have over a 50% fatality rate when they shoot, unless you put the wounds on Draigo.

3 Vendettas get 9 TL shots for 6.75 hits, lets round it down to 5 wounds on average, you might save 2 if you're lucky, losing 3 Paladins from one squadron in one turn, from across the field. If you get cover, you may only lose 2 on average.

Well, best of luck running the list. At least it will be cheap to make - only 21 models and Paladins are plastic now IIRC. I just don't see why you wouldn't take at least some Dreadknights or Purifiers and exploit Grand Strategy.

This army need's less. Drop some paladins for dreadkinight and interceptors. And some long-range anti-tank. Then this might be viable

TehScat wrote:Your psycannons and stormbolters are range 24". You can move 6", so your threat range is 30". Any kid with a 36" range AP2 weapon wins by default. You can't expect people to *want* to go near your squads - if I was up against a squad that cost over a thousand points with Draigo in it, I'd keep my distance. Lascannons and Lances will have over a 50% fatality rate when they shoot, unless you put the wounds on Draigo.

3 Vendettas get 9 TL shots for 6.75 hits, lets round it down to 5 wounds on average, you might save 2 if you're lucky, losing 3 Paladins from one squadron in one turn, from across the field. If you get cover, you may only lose 2 on average.

Well, best of luck running the list. At least it will be cheap to make - only 21 models and Paladins are plastic now IIRC. I just don't see why you wouldn't take at least some Dreadknights or Purifiers and exploit Grand Strategy.

Wait... is that... it can't be a... reasoned response? I didn't think you could find it in you. I guess you got out of the right side of the bed this morning...

36" AP2 hurts me for one turn. Then I come within 24", and hurt it. Granted, though, it'll be painful.

Vendettas, again, granted. But we could sit here all day and rhyme off units that would kill Terminators. Thing is, you don't see them all too often. And not in large numbers, either. So, I lose 2-3 Paladins from his Vendetta Squadron. Meh. Still got 17-18 where they came from.

Yep; inexpensive, quick to assemble, fun to paint.

Dreadknights... I did consider them, honest. But I'm still a little sad about the nerfing that occurred between the leaked PDF, and the printed Codex. I haven't been impressed by them, in the few games I've played against them. It certainly hasn't taken much to get rid of them.

As for Purifiers... I'm not sure they'd fit. Don't get me wrong, I love Purifiers. In fact, some time in the future, I intend to do a Purifier army. I just don't think they fit all too well with the Paladins.

Perhaps, if I had MSU Terminators with Thawn in there... they'd be better in combination with Purifiers. Mordrak/Terminators/Purifiers, anyone? *Goes to list-build...*


Automatically Appended Next Post:

InquisitorVaron wrote:This army need's less. Drop some paladins for dreadkinight and interceptors. And some long-range anti-tank. Then this might be viable

Long-range anti-tank? Have you read Codex: Grey Knights?

Not sure about Interceptors. They're paper, compared to the Paladins, which are rocks. Diamonds, even. That said, I guess they'd be improved somewhat if they were scoring... especially with that shunt...

See above in regards to Dreadknights.

I have indeed. The only long range anti tank is a conversion beamer. The model would only then be 60 Points, so it won't rain on your parade of paladins.

Conversion Beamer Inquisitor is an incredibly easy Kill Point. I'd rather not.

Threads like this make me feel Dakka may need to split Army Lists into two different forums- Tournament lists and everything else. Some posters just look at a list and if it doesn't look like the internet lists then it can't be good. I think this list would be fun to play and fun to build, and not too hard on the wallet. I was trying to convince my roommate how a 10 man paladin unit could just dictate the game around an objective, and he mentioned how his army would be able to out maneuver them and pour in 120 bolter shots no problem.

Then we did the math, no paladins should die from 120 bolter shots, assuming average rolls.

Oaka just hit the nail on the head, I think. Thanks, mate.

Not too hard on the wallet, at all. I could have them on my doorstep for £101.24. It's a different story with the Phantom Titan I've developed an obsession with...

Those maths... is that also assuming that you don't have to distribute any to a wounded Paladin? I suspect so; I, too, did the maths.

He took them as master crafted so he could use the wound allocation rules and allowing him to put a wound on every model befor 1 has to die, Its a very normal tactic to do when able eg nob bikers.

This.

It is a list. Perhaps you haven't taken any time to think about the specifics of what I'm proposing, and instead put every inch of your brain matter into slandering and verbally slaughtering both me, as and individual, and my list. From your above comment, it certainly seems that way.

But as they've got storm bolters rather than psycannons they're already differently armed for wound allocation so again why have you done it? You're reason is a null one as your choice has no impact on whether you can allocate wounds. So again I ask why you've done that?

I think this list would be a lot of fun to play. While it has bad match up, I think there are a lot of lists out there that would be at a loss to deal with this. Have fun with it!

If I may make one suggestion, I really think adding psybolt ammo would make the paladins deadlier, and help you deal with all the light armor out there. if you have 2 doom units, you want to make sure that whatever they shoot dies instantly.

Can we try to make our criticisms polite and friendly?